Large hearted event horses (was Martian Tiger)

[mellsmom]

Important thing to remember about TB racing. For every thrid person you’ll find another theory. You should see people at the sales. Shrug?! Some people use the dosage index as a guideline. Funny thing about dosage index. Once a horse wins, the doasge index changes on it’s sire and dam because they’ve produced a winner

Bensmom needs to be wary of Buzzy, … I think he’s related to Blue… who was a nut case. War Admiral, Nazrullah on top and bottom, Swaps, and about 5 other decent TB’s and his sire was an excellent show hunter sire.

Now what I really want…a gelding… out of Fantastic Light by an affirmed mare. Heart, attitude, temperament and flash.

Funny thing about the Derby… all along I kept liking that horse and everyone kept trying to talk me out of it. I did like his breeding.
I don’t know who dad’s pick is for tomoorw though.

[terry]

I don’t know a thing about this pedigree stuff but I find it fascinating and want to learn more. I went to the Del Mar site and added my daughter’s pony; True Romantic. He is a son of Romantico (son of Secretariat) and True Halo (daughter of Halo). How can I tell from the information listed there if he is likely to have a large heart? Also, how can I learn what all the numbers at the top of the pedigree mean and what all the information shown means? Is there an explanation somewhere on that site, or is it standard TB pedigree stuff and it is assumed that you understand what it all means already? Thanks for posting about this stuff, its great.

[Janet]

Switchin browsers (from Netscape to IE) did the trick).

[Janet]

Because War Secretary is a male, he inherited a Y chromosome form Secetariat, not the X chomosome which carries this gene. The ONLY way War Secretary could get it is if his DAM carried it on one or both of her Xs.

A male gets an X from his dam and a Y from his sire.

A female gets an X from her Dam and another X from her sire.

The delmar site does not underline the horses which carry the gene, but which can NOT have been passed on to the horse in question. (i.e., sire to son)

If you click on “X-chromosome” next to “highlight” at the top of the page, it will highlight all the possible sources of the X chromosome for the horse in question.

[Lisamarie8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FairWeather:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
Originally Posted by Bensmom:
Now, on Run Apalachee Run, hey, Lisamarie8, since you don’t know much about TB pedigrees, wanna sell this mare? Just without digging very far, she’s got Double Jay in a position to pass the gene (although unmarked by Del Mar – odd) Mahmoud, bred to a double copy mare in a position to pass the gene, she goes back to Domino, again in a position to pass through Gala Bell, and Sandury, on the bottom side is a daughter of War Admiral. Plus, she’s got lots of other good horses scattered throughout. She crosses well with Quarter Horses? <sigh – that’s what I want to find eventually is a well bred TB to cross with QHs[/list]

I’d love to have this mare

I just checked one of my horses, Winnepesaukee and It looks like his dam carries the gene…can someone take a look?

Always,
FairWeather
"Just call me mint jelly cuz i’m on the lamb!–Grandpa
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Y’all are BOTH going to hate me when i tell you I could have bought this mare for about 2k 3 years ago…

But Bensmom to answer your question, she crosses FABULOUSLY with QH’s…Ask Fairweather, she’s seen the result Ozzy is a blessing Here are a bunch of pics for a topic on JB’s porch i just put together.

Pics of Ozzy, Chi-Chi (Run Appalache Run) and Ozzy’s Daddy

[This message was edited by lisamarie8 on May. 08, 2002 at 03:46 PM.]

[SGray]

what did I do wrong in my query? I put in the name, indicated yes in the X-factor pull-down, then asked for a 5 generation pedigree - all I’m seeing is blue and black

[EventGurlie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bensmom:

Interestingly enough, on first glance, like the other upper level event horses that I’ve checked, he appears to have the indicators that he has a larger than normal heart. Pretty cool

Libby

[This message was edited by Bensmom on May. 08, 2002 at 10:05 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe that is cool! my new greenie that i just bought has pretty impressive blloodlines never got to a race though hehe…but my dad is all into the racehorse stuff and he was all researching the pedigree and she is infact a double copy mare!!! hehe that is pretty neat…except…my dad is going to jynx me cuz he goes “i hope Addie goes lame so i can breed her” he obviously wants to start his race future with her haha…im like nooooo get away from my horse i need to event her first!!

~Nicole~

[Heinz_57]

im a little confused… ive been hunting around on cruz’ pedigree for about an hour, and am finding doubles and singles all over the place. HOWEVER, i STILL havent determined if HE has the possibility (or HAS) the large heart gene. anyone want to help??? his reg. name is Sum Dandy(1986, b., G ought to get you to the right place). Im just a little confused but am going to do more research. thx

if you dont like my driving, get off the sidewalk!

[Badger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Bay and the Brunette:
im a little confused… ive been hunting around on cruz’ pedigree for about an hour, and am finding doubles and singles all over the place. HOWEVER, i STILL havent determined if HE has the possibility (or HAS) the large heart gene. anyone want to help??? his reg. name is Sum Dandy(1986, b., G ought to get you to the right place). Im just a little confused but am going to do more research. thx

if you dont like my driving, get off the sidewalk!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The closest single-copy x-factor is 4-generations back with Best Risk. There is a possibility that the gene passed down to Sum Dandy, but the odds are not great.

[Bensmom]

Martian Tiger has a pretty impressive pedigree. He is a 1988 TB gelding and I’m in the process of putting him into the Del Mar database.

Interestingly enough, on first glance, like the other upper level event horses that I’ve checked, he appears to have the indicators that he has a larger than normal heart. Pretty cool

Libby

[This message was edited by Bensmom on May. 08, 2002 at 10:05 AM.]

[Janet]

Nope.

Highlight X cromosome does jsut that- highlights all the potential sources of the X chromosome. Of course your horse “lit up”, she has an (actually 2) X chromosome(s).

It has little to do with having the X-factor for the large heart.

If you select “yes” for “X-fator” in the pulldowm menu BEFORE you search for the horse, AND you are using the “right” browser, you will get red and/or blue underlining (of the whole box, not just the name. If you are using the wrong browser, you won’t get anything different from when you select “no”.

In the case of March’s Promise, the closest ancesteor who MIGHT have passed on the X-factor is her great grand dam, Chealsea’s Proof, who had at least a single copy. So your horse has about a 12% chance of carrying the X-factor for a large heart.

[Gry2Yng]

I have been interested in the large heart theory for a while. I never understood how it worked on the del mar site. Thanks for the info.

FWIW, the reason many horses do not appear on Del Mar is that they must be input versus the database that Jockey Club has. If you know the sire and dam, you can ususally upload the pedigree to Del Mar.

[mellsmom]

Bloodstock Research Or BRIS used to produce a TB registration listing on a CD every year. IT’s pretty unsophistocated, but you can search by dam’s name of registered offspring name. THe CD contains all racing info, dosage index and bloodlines. I lost contact with my source for these cd’s a while ago, but I have TB’s born 1996 and before. IT’s very cool.
Libby I’m suprised that you aren’t subscribed to their service.

Hollyn

[AM1]

TLE - Your horse’s sire only received one of his mother’s X chromosomes. If both of her X chromosomes carried the large heart gene, then he would indeed have inherited it and passed it on to his daughter, your mare. However, if only one of his mother’s X chromosomes carried the large heart gene, he had only a fifty percent chance of receiving that X chromosome and passing it on to Char.

[GotSpots]

Gee Libby, I think you could take up a whole new career track: assessing the breeding of all of our horses! I think, from my reading of it, that Spot doesn’t carry the gene (but I’ve not yet figured out how to upload his Paint side from the APHA site to Del Mar so I’m only going from his dam, Chantilly Gray, who has both Dancers and Man of War, but through the sire line instead of the dam).

I am interested in the traits associated with the gene, however, since often when we are looking for horses we don’t always have access to a full pedigree. Would love to see pictures/outlines!

[JDufort]

ASC

what I like most about Riverdale is that he has “old lines”. What I mean by that is he was born in 1991, from 77 and 75 parents, and from 54,60,61, and 68 grandparents.

American race horses used to be bred for stamina, distance, longevity - they raced for many seasons before retiring to stud.

Modern American racehorses are bred for young brilliance, and their highest value comes from stud fees so they are retired after 3 and 4 year old seasons. Many feel that we are losing the original traits of stamina, distance, and longevity - and these are the exact traits we need in event horses.

One reason New Zealand breds are fashionable in eventing these days is because they share the original great bloodlines like War Admiral and Nearco, but they have continued to be bred for stamina, distance, and longevity.

Second thing I like is his damsire Round Table - he is one of the “Chefs” - that is the most influential sires, and he contributes {S}, or Solid, which indicates distance.

One of the intersting things about him is that his breeding is very balanced across lines - most horses I’ve looked at with “good” bloodlines like his have more inbreeding - that is their quality is coming from the same few horses if you go back 8-9 generations.

He has one full sibling - Al Fijar, born in 1993 -wonder where that horse is now?

Jeanne

[mountain_girl]

Would anyone please check Del Mar for my mare Emmy Moi’s chances of having the big heart and (or) passing it on. She has all four of the big heart stallions in her pedigree. She is also sired by Stage Door Johnny, who, according to the PHR Directory, appears as a broodmare sire for jumping athletes, such as Worth The Trust, Tashiling, and Spend A Dollar. I hope she will pass on the X chromo for “jump”! She is a great eventer and hunter and I have booked her to A Fine Romance, who is also on Del Mar. My problem is that I am on Webtv, which doesn’t seem to have the capability to show the X on the pedigree. Thanks a million in advance to anyone who might check for me! Holly

from coastal Maine, where boatlovers rule, and horselovers ride.

[Janet]

What browser are you using?

Look at my post on pag 2. For me, it worked on IE but not on Netscape.

[AllyCat]

I thought I had this all figured out. Maybe someone can help me.

If both the sire and dam carry the gene, shouldn’t the resultant female offspring be double copy for the gene? Also, my mare has Princequillo on the top, but I don’t see the X-factor showing up with him. It only shows up on the bottom with Dr. Fager (single copy) and Courtesy (single copy). The resultant daughter is shown as only a single copy. Shouldn’t she be a double copy?

Then if the mare is a double copy, her son should carry the gene and my mare (his daughter) would also be a single copy?

I had to add her sire and dam when I put her on the website. Maybe that is why it’s not showing up?

If anyone has time to figure this out or really understands it, feel free to drop me a line.

This is a really interesting thread. Maybe we’ll get as much going here as on the Parelli/O’Connor thread

Sounds like we all have some awfully nice horses even if they don’t carry the gene. JDufort–I liked you post that even without the gene, the bloodlines are impressive due to the horses and their minds and conformations!

[Fred]

would there be a difference in the ‘heritability’ of this trait?