Lasix also one of the drugs that has no place in the game

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3130398]
New Bolton just did a study on Amicar and the results showed that it does absolutely nothing to stop bleeding…I only say this because I never saw it work and felt it was truly a way for vets to make a quick $15.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, because we have used it with good results in the a.m. when working horses known to bleed.

I just read the entire article, and these are Preliminary findings, and it did NOT state that Amicar does nothing…http://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/newsimages/thefightforair.pdf

[hipsdontlie]

although i am sure many know this… how badly can lasix be “abused” ?? with drug rules strictly enforced its not like the show horse world where people give them whatever they want until they get caught.

[SteeleRdr]

[QUOTE=hipsdontlie;3131643]
although i am sure many know this… how badly can lasix be “abused” ?? with drug rules strictly enforced its not like the show horse world where people give them whatever they want until they get caught.[/QUOTE]

People are using the term “abuse” regarding the use of Lasix on horses that don’t necessarily need it (due to bleeding). Not really about using it illegally or overdosing, it’s more about the use unnecessarily.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=SteeleRdr;3131691]
People are using the term “abuse” regarding the use of Lasix on horses that don’t necessarily need it (due to bleeding). Not really about using it illegally or overdosing, it’s more about the use unnecessarily.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. In Pennsylvania, you gotta bleed during a scope to get on Lasix. If you ship in from another state and there is no bleeder card on the papers they will call the track where the horse ran on Lasix and get a fax of the bleeders certificate. If you just “put” your horse on Lasix like you can in Kentucky, then they’ll make you run w/out lasix. It’s strict, but I think it’s fair.

By the way, am I the only one who doesn’t believe Gallileo ever really worked on a backside overseas?

[Galileo1998]

@DickHertz;3133136

By the way, am I the only one who doesn’t believe Gallileo ever really worked on a backside overseas?

#1 - Allow me to point out that if you had a clue you would realize that there is no such thing as a backside in the UK. :lol: But thanks for trying. :winkgrin: Perhaps you should take the time to educate yourself as to how and where racehorses are trained over there.

#2 - do you REALLY think that working in a stable yard is SO fantastic that someone would make it up?? :lol: Trust me, if I was going to make something up, it would be a whole lot more fun than cleaning up after horses for a living.

[Barnfairy]

If I may interrupt to point out that Dr. Scot Waterman of the Racing Medication & Testing Consortium --formed with the aim of strengthening the integrity of racing-- will be tomorrow’s guest on the Blood Horse’s Talkin’ Horses live discussion. I’m fairly certain Dr. Waterman has an educated opinion regarding Lasix and its use in the racing industry, if you care to ask him about it.

Carry on.

[didgery]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3121769]
I have a friend who felt the way Lola does and stopped giving Lasix to all her horses until one died from so much lung hemorhaging during a race that the horse had a heart attack during the race.[/QUOTE]

I am not in the racing business but I will say that this statement right here won’t help you defend the sport from its detractors.

[DickHertz]

From a bloodhorse chat today…Gallileo is right, European horses and trainers are perfectly clean.

Orange County, CA:
Why can’t the United States adopt similar medication rules to those that are in place in Europe? What are the differences in medications allowed here vs. there?

Waterman:
There is nothing that prevents states in the US from adopting similar medication rules to those in place in Europe. Rightly or wrongly, the U.S. has a different philosophy that has developed over a period of time towards some therapeutic medications. The main difference is that furosemide is permitted on raceday in the U.S. and generally is a 24-hour drug in Europe. One non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug is usually allowed at 24 hours in the U.S., while in Europe the administration of NSAIDs is pushed out much further from the race. Anabolic steroids used to be another major difference although the model rule states are now adopting brings us much closer to the rest of the world. Most other medications are actually regulated very similarly and believe it or not, there are therapeutic medications that can be administered closer to the race in European countries than many U.S. states.
St. Louis,MO :
I realize that the whole aspect of medication for Thoroughbreds in training is complicated but isn’t the European and Japanese restrictions a much cleaner solution? Also don’t you believe that there has to be some unification among the different state racing authorities to bring this whole mess under control both from prohibiting performance enhancing or detracting drugs and enforcing punishments for violators?

Waterman:
Please see my previous answer regarding international medication rules. At the 30,000 foot level the European and Japanese approaches look cleaner but I can tell you from experience that they struggle with the same issues we do in terms of drugs of therapeutic benefit to the horse and when to withdraw them in order to preserve the integrity of the race. These are universal issues. Yes, I do believe that there must be uniformity among state jurisdictions. The RMTC has worked diligently on a uniform national medication policy since its inception and we have made more progress towards this goal than anyone in the industry thought we would when the RMTC began. We still have a ways to go but we’ll keep at it.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=didgery;3135678]
I am not in the racing business but I will say that this statement right here won’t help you defend the sport from its detractors.[/QUOTE]

The topic was about the use of Lasix and I simply pointed out one reason why Lasix is necessary.

I’ve already said the drug is abused, but it can play a key role in preventing EIPH in a lot of horses. I do think that horses who need to train in Lasix should be retired, but some people will keep going with them.

[BansheeBreeze]

pardon me to bring up an older topic here but I’m just curious for learnings sake…what are the NEGATIVE side effects of Lasix? Its something I’ve yet to read about and you would think with all the hullaballoo over it, there would be SOME kind of study or information regarding it. Thanks

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=BansheeBreeze;3161764]
pardon me to bring up an older topic here but I’m just curious for learnings sake…what are the NEGATIVE side effects of Lasix? Its something I’ve yet to read about and you would think with all the hullaballoo over it, there would be SOME kind of study or information regarding it. Thanks[/QUOTE]

Extended use can cause kidney failure. Generally, if you are just giving it for races there won’t be any long-term negative effects. People that use it to train and race are putting their horses at greater risk for kidney failure.

[Barnfairy]

…what are the NEGATIVE side effects of Lasix?

Use of any diuretic can result in dehydration and electrolyte imbalance, which in turn can lead to tying up – side effects which are of particular concern to equine athletes.

[WarranT]

I could tell you a story about Lasix use that would make your head spin. And also make you question the integrity of the veterinarians on the backstretch.

i was a young boy so i dont remember to much, but had them tell me a few times over the years

Had a trotter qualifying at The Meadowlands. Drove him back to the barn and they find the vet waiting at the barn. the horse was good on the track

my old man and trainer went to get the horses bath water and they find the vet going into his stall and drawing blood. they didint think anything of it, thought they wanted to make sure the horse didint tie up. Next thing they see is the vet takes this huge 60 cc syringe of blood, squirts it down the horse’s nose and then scopes him.

“Yep” he says “hes bleeding. He can go on Lasix!” and he proceeded to turn the paperwork into the state vet. Shows just how greedy vets can be…

Speaking of vets…I often wonder if they bet. If they “treat” 4 horses in a race, are they all getting the same meds or are some getting the good stuff and the others plain vitamins???