StG
Oh please!
Oh that crap ball has already rolled half way down the hill. Last year at Equine Affaire, I stopped counting how many dogs I had to step over in the crowded buildings. Every one had the orange service dog vest on. The states hand out the service animal designation like candy. It’s really ridiculous.
WOW this is out of control in Canada as well! One lady claimed her shedding/barking/bad JRT licking her face kept her from cutting herself. There was a big write up in the paper about how she was asked to leave a restaurant after the dog would not stop licking her-gross! SO people eating food have to put up with a dog in a restaurant because she is messed up? What about people with allergies? Kids with a crippling fear of dogs? Crazy world we live in… Poor her on disability at the age of 23 because she cuts herself…sorry I have no love for this type of nonsense.
:lol::lol::lol: I would LOVE to bring some giant boa or python to work. Can you see it? Draped around my shoulders, curled up on the desk, the shelf, the floor, my chair, the chair next to me…Sure would keep the pests and idiots to a minimum.
Or maybe my cat - my excuse would be that he reminds me why I’m at work and keeps me from hurting others. rotflmao
I’m all about service animals but agree that it has gone too far in some cases.
Anyone who actually needs a Service Animal or Emotional Support Animal should be well versed in their legal rights. According to the ADA, the term “Service Animal” is defined as a dog (and in some cases miniature horses) that has been trained to do at least 3 tasks to help their handler with a recognized disability. An Emotional Support Animal is an animal (any animal) whose presence helps their owner to feel better (such as a snake for depression). Emotional Support Animals are NOT Service Animals, nor are they granted the same rights. The only rights granted to Emotional Support Animals, are the right to fly in the cabin of an airplane with their owner (owner has to contact airline ahead of time and provide paperwork in accordance to airline’s policy) and the right to live in long term housing with their owner, regardless of the building’s pet policy, at no extra charge (once again, need to provide paperwork proving the need for ESA). Emotional Support Animals are NOT allowed in public places that do not allow pets, they are not allowed at non-pet friendly hotels/motels, and they are still subject to a pet fee at pet-friendly hotels/motels.
The ADA also has provisions protecting businesses from disruptive Service Animals. According to the ADA, if the Service Animal is disrupting business (barking during a movie, begging, jumping on people other than it’s handler, etc.), is acting aggressive, or is not housebroken, the business is legally allowed to tell the handler to remove the dog as long as they still offer service to the handler if he/she returns without their dog.
The reason people are able to pass of their ill-mannered pets as Service Animals is because businesses are so afraid of being sued for violating the ADA or discrimination. If more business managers and employees took the time to read the ADA and any state rules/regulations on Service Animals, they would know which animals they had the right to remove from their property, which in turn would keep people from developing the negative attitude towards Service Animals that the people on this board appear to have.
[QUOTE=melhorse;8274389]
WOW this is out of control in Canada as well! One lady claimed her shedding/barking/bad JRT licking her face kept her from cutting herself. There was a big write up in the paper about how she was asked to leave a restaurant after the dog would not stop licking her-gross! SO people eating food have to put up with a dog in a restaurant because she is messed up? What about people with allergies? Kids with a crippling fear of dogs? Crazy world we live in… Poor her on disability at the age of 23 because she cuts herself…sorry I have no love for this type of nonsense.[/QUOTE]
Im not sure how it is in Canada, but in the US, the dog barking (unless it was an alert to a medical emergency, or the handler immediatly corrected the dog and that was the end of it) would be grounds for the dog to be removed. If the dog was in fact behaving badly, instead of laying under the table patiently while she ate, that would have been grounds to remove the dog. In the US, yes people do have to ‘put up with’ a dog in a restaurant, if it is a Service Dog that is under control and needed for a disability. The dog SHOULD be trained to lay patiently out of the way, under the table, so it does not disturb other guests. If someone has allergies to the dog, according to the ADA, an effort should be made to place the dog and person with allergies as far apart as reasonably possible to accomodate them both. Same thing with those that ‘have a crippling fear of dogs’. As for the shedding, it happens. The dog handler/owner should keep up on grooming to mitigate the amount of hair possibly left behind.
As a handler, I make a point to brush my dog at least every other night and bathe him as often as needed, in my best effort to mitigate the effects he will have on those with allergies. I do have people approach me from time to time acting fearful and saying things about ‘he better not bite them’ or something to that effect. I always respond by telling them (as he is politely sitting/standing at my feet) “he is a highly trained service dog, there is nothing to worry about. I wouldnt have him out in public if he was a risk to anyone”.
[QUOTE=MoonlightsMom;8274608]
Anyone who actually needs a Service Animal or Emotional Support Animal should be well versed in their legal rights. According to the ADA, the term “Service Animal” is defined as a dog (and in some cases miniature horses) that has been trained to do at least 3 tasks to help their handler with a recognized disability. An Emotional Support Animal is an animal (any animal) whose presence helps their owner to feel better (such as a snake for depression). Emotional Support Animals are NOT Service Animals, nor are they granted the same rights. The only rights granted to Emotional Support Animals, are the right to fly in the cabin of an airplane with their owner (owner has to contact airline ahead of time and provide paperwork in accordance to airline’s policy) and the right to live in long term housing with their owner, regardless of the building’s pet policy, at no extra charge (once again, need to provide paperwork proving the need for ESA). Emotional Support Animals are NOT allowed in public places that do not allow pets, they are not allowed at non-pet friendly hotels/motels, and they are still subject to a pet fee at pet-friendly hotels/motels.
The ADA also has provisions protecting businesses from disruptive Service Animals. According to the ADA, if the Service Animal is disrupting business (barking during a movie, begging, jumping on people other than it’s handler, etc.), is acting aggressive, or is not housebroken, the business is legally allowed to tell the handler to remove the dog as long as they still offer service to the handler if he/she returns without their dog.
The reason people are able to pass of their ill-mannered pets as Service Animals is because businesses are so afraid of being sued for violating the ADA or discrimination. If more business managers and employees took the time to read the ADA and any state rules/regulations on Service Animals, they would know which animals they had the right to remove from their property, which in turn would keep people from developing the negative attitude towards Service Animals that the people on this board appear to have.[/QUOTE]
This is good to know. I am super supportive of service animals, if they are actual service dogs. Having a severe snake phobia, I would come unglued.
I dunno, ball pythons might be OK; they’re pretty friendly. But it would be hard to keep the little vests on 'em. :winkgrin:
Char-maybe a really long turtle neck vest would work?
I’ve heard you can buy phony service dog credentials and vest on Ebay, for about $50. Since I heard about it, the number of bad acting animals wearing virtually identical orange vests seems to have exploded, and the vest I saw on the article was orange. Most of the service animals I’ve seen that are trained by a specific organization, have vest saying the organization name. The generic orange ones seems suspicious to me.
[QUOTE=JanM;8274798]
Char-maybe a really long turtle neck vest would work?
I’ve heard you can buy phony service dog credentials and vest on Ebay, for about $50. Since I heard about it, the number of bad acting animals wearing virtually identical orange vests seems to have exploded, and the vest I saw on the article was orange. Most of the service animals I’ve seen that are trained by a specific organization, have vest saying the organization name. The generic orange ones seems suspicious to me.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly why businesses need to start educating their managers and employees about the laws regarding service animals in their state. Yes, anyone can buy a service dog vest. However, if the dog is behaving in a way that disrupts business, they legally can insist that the animal be removed as long as they allow the handler to come back without said animal. Business employees are also legally allowed to ask 2 questions about service dogs: Is the dog needed due to a disability, and what tasks is it trained to do? They cannot ask anything else or insist on a demonstration. However, between asking those 2 questions and insisting that disruptive animals be removed, a majority of the fake or badly trained service dogs would no longer be an issue.
Not all legitimate service dog training organizations have their name on the vests their dogs graduate with, and even if the dog graduated with said vest, there is nothing stopping the handler from buying them a different vest. Please, do not judge service dog teams based on the vest the dog is wearing, but instead based on the behavior of the dog.
Service animas need to perform a task in order to be a service animal. Not sure what task a snake could do.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;8274921]
Service animas need to perform a task in order to be a service animal. Not sure what task a snake could do.[/QUOTE]
In the US, the ADA defines service animals as dogs, or in some cases miniature horses, that are needed due to a disability and have been trained to do a minimum of 3 tasks to help their handler with their daily life. So, even if somehow a snake could be taught a task, they are not legally recognized as service animals in the US.
The ADA does NOT recognize snakes as service animals. I love snakes, I did my graduate work as a herpetologist and spent a crap ton of time with my study subjects. Never would eat with them, as they carry (yes, even captive breds) salmonella. What makes me laugh is that he said it helps him with his depression. I believe him, but that doesn’t make it ok to do! Jeez if I brought what I love to have to stave off depression to a restaurant, I’d likely be jailed for possession!
MM-I didn’t mean that a dog without a vest was suspicious to me. However, the few I’ve seen in the stores, and at work (I work on an Army base) have had vests. I’m sure there are legitimate service animals without vests, however, the bright orange generic ones on the poorly behaved animals do make me wonder.
It not only shows they’re service animals, but shows the organization names. I think all of the ones at work have also been charities that are on the CFC (United Way) lists, so it’s advertising too.
[QUOTE=MoonlightsMom;8274608]
Anyone who actually needs a Service Animal or Emotional Support Animal should be well versed in their legal rights. According to the ADA, the term “Service Animal” is defined as a dog (and in some cases miniature horses) that has been trained to do at least 3 tasks to help their handler with a recognized disability. An Emotional Support Animal is an animal (any animal) whose presence helps their owner to feel better (such as a snake for depression). Emotional Support Animals are NOT Service Animals, nor are they granted the same rights. The only rights granted to Emotional Support Animals, are the right to fly in the cabin of an airplane with their owner (owner has to contact airline ahead of time and provide paperwork in accordance to airline’s policy) and the right to live in long term housing with their owner, regardless of the building’s pet policy, at no extra charge (once again, need to provide paperwork proving the need for ESA). Emotional Support Animals are NOT allowed in public places that do not allow pets, they are not allowed at non-pet friendly hotels/motels, and they are still subject to a pet fee at pet-friendly hotels/motels.
The ADA also has provisions protecting businesses from disruptive Service Animals. According to the ADA, if the Service Animal is disrupting business (barking during a movie, begging, jumping on people other than it’s handler, etc.), is acting aggressive, or is not housebroken, the business is legally allowed to tell the handler to remove the dog as long as they still offer service to the handler if he/she returns without their dog.
The reason people are able to pass of their ill-mannered pets as Service Animals is because businesses are so afraid of being sued for violating the ADA or discrimination. If more business managers and employees took the time to read the ADA and any state rules/regulations on Service Animals, they would know which animals they had the right to remove from their property, which in turn would keep people from developing the negative attitude towards Service Animals that the people on this board appear to have.[/QUOTE]
well, thank you for this. I am printing it out and taking it to work when I return. We have a couple people that bring their dogs in and claim they are service animals when it is quite plain they are not. One is a very rude Boxer whose owner cannot control him and is allowed to run all over, barge into other patients rooms, growl at other people and generally drag his owner all over. The other is a nasty little Chihuahua cross whose owner allows him to poop and pee everywhere, sit in the bed with her and growl at staff. In the absence of any legitimate service dog credentials or proof of such and based on the bad behavior, I have asked many times to have both of these animals barred but my charge nurse and directors refuse. I think they are afraid of offending the patient and violating some “law.” I think this info will help A LOT.
Charismaryllis - you’re just wrong! I nearly choked on my lunch I laughed so hard. :lol::lol:
Unfortunately, there is a new “Kid” (errr … snake, dog, cat, pig, giraffe, etc - insert any animal you would like into here …) on the block …
You have “Service Animals” and you now have “Emotional Support Animals” which are not the same thing, but also allow you to bring your pet anywhere for any reason …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_support_animal
On a recent flight from Orlando back to Toronto there were 3 dogs on the flight. Because of the 4-5 hour delay, they were peeing and crapping in the waiting area, and 2 were fighting. It didn’t get much better on the flight itself :(. They were ALL “Emotional Support Animals”
Basically - I can say I have a fear of :
Eating in restaurants
Shopping in the grocery store
Trying on clothes in a claustrophobic little change room
Using a public restroom
Sitting by myself in a plane / bus / streetcar / taxi / ferry / etc
And I will be granted the right to take Fluffy the Dog, Bacon the Pig, Oscar the Cat, Horace the Horse, etc with me wherever I go and there isn’t a thing you or anyone else can do because I will have seen the doctor and explained my irrational fear and they will give me a note saying I NEED my “Emotional Support Animal” or I may have a meltdown. And there is no training required for any of these animals. You just need to say you “need” them and its totally immaterial if they crap, pee, bark, howl, fight or try and take food off your plate in a restaurant
Pandora’s Box is open and they better shut it quick because there is no limit and no restriction on what animal you can bring to any where or any place. The animals and their “stressed” human handlers have more rights than you do right now
[QUOTE=TrueColours;8275650]
Unfortunately, there is a new “Kid” (errr … snake, dog, cat, pig, giraffe, etc - insert any animal you would like into here …) on the block …
You have “Service Animals” and you now have “Emotional Support Animals” which are not the same thing, but also allow you to bring your pet anywhere for any reason …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_support_animal
On a recent flight from Orlando back to Toronto there were 3 dogs on the flight. Because of the 4-5 hour delay, they were peeing and crapping in the waiting area, and 2 were fighting. It didn’t get much better on the flight itself :(. They were ALL “Emotional Support Animals”
Basically - I can say I have a fear of :
Eating in restaurants
Shopping in the grocery store
Trying on clothes in a claustrophobic little change room
Using a public restroom
Sitting by myself in a plane / bus / streetcar / taxi / ferry / etc
And I will be granted the right to take Fluffy the Dog, Bacon the Pig, Oscar the Cat, Horace the Horse, etc with me wherever I go and there isn’t a thing you or anyone else can do because I will have seen the doctor and explained my irrational fear and they will give me a note saying I NEED my “Emotional Support Animal” or I may have a meltdown. And there is no training required for any of these animals. You just need to say you “need” them and its totally immaterial if they crap, pee, bark, howl, fight or try and take food off your plate in a restaurant
Pandora’s Box is open and they better shut it quick because there is no limit and no restriction on what animal you can bring to any where or any place. The animals and their “stressed” human handlers have more rights than you do right now[/QUOTE]
This is all incorrect, at least in the US. Emotional Support Animals DO require a doctor’s note or prescription, and they are granted certian rights. Those rights include flying in the cabin of the plane with their owner (if their owner has the proper paperwork) and living in long term housing without a pet fee, regardless of the housing’s pet policy. That is where the rights of an ESA end. The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is what grants the right to be in public places to Service Animals. The ADA does NOT recognize Emotional Support Animals as Service Animals, and therefore they do NOT have the right to be in public places or treated in the same manner as Service Animals. ESA’s aren’t even exempt from pet policies at hotels/motels due to the fact that it is temporary housing and not long term.
The ADA also protects businesses from badly trained Service Animals. If the animal is disrupting normal business or is not housebroken, they can legal have the animal be removed from the property as long as they still offer service to the owner if they come back without the animal. Businesses not knowing the ADA and their rights granted under it are the reason fake and badly trained Service Animals give all Service Animals a bad name, and it also increases the discrimination felt by their handlers.
Please don’t try to use Wikipedia as a legitimate source, it can be edited by anyone and the statements they make are not always factual. If you are going to cite a source to back up your claim, please try to find a legitimate one.
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
Media and public opinion are also “helping” the fake service/ESAs, case in point there was a shop in our chain that asked a service animal to leave for those reasons- not behaving, not housebroken, roaming the aisles at will, owner not paying any attention to it at all. Owner got offended and took it to the media, store got BLASTED over it. Within their rights, yes, but worth the massive bad publicity they got? Fortunately for them they’re part of a big corp so it didn’t hurt as bad, but I can only imagine if it had been a small mom/pop type of store.
Where I work is a very animal friendly office building with lots of therapist and disability groups, so we see a lot of true SAs and ESAs…HUGE difference (As I see) between the two. SAs are always very well trained, kind of aloof, focused on their jobs. ESAs behave, well, pretty much like my dogs when I bring them in. Excited, wants to meet everyone, jumps up on the counter, ect. Excluding of course the ones that are in carriers (cats, small dogs, one duck…although to be fair I’m not sure the duck is an actual ESA, she may just bring him in cause he’s cool lol).
If more businesses would actually have disruptive animals removed, it would be well known that businesses can and will do so, and therefore it wouldn’t be a big deal to the media. The reason it is a big deal is because so few businesses stand up for their rights when it comes to ill behaved service animals. Does it become a big media story when someone is asked to leave a movie theater for talking during a movie?
I understand where you are coming from, especially mom and pop stores being afraid of the backlash. However, as a Service Dog trainer and handler, it irritates me to no end that people are allowed to get away with fake and poorly trained service animals in public. Especially since there are legal reasons to have said animals removed, and businesses just won’t take a stand. Not only does it discredit my profession to have poorly behaved animals mascarading as service animals, it also increases the prejudice against handlers with legitimate service animals. If the poorly behaved and un-housebroken service animals were consistantly kicked out of public places, people like myself wouldn’t have to deal with snide comments from employees and customers such as “your dog better not pee in here” or “your dog better not bite me”. None of the dogs I have out in public (training dogs or my personal service dog) ever behave in such a way that would give anyone with half a brain the idea that they are going to do such things.
