Lawsuit filed re: death of jumper near Aiken

I thought we were discussing, not arguing. :slightly_smiling_face:

Some of us have wandered into what we do or do not consider safe tying, but I think everyone knows that what this woman did was not tying as we know it, but was cruel.

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Well, that insane explanation of her side of things certainly leaves me with more questions than answers :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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IME baling twine does not break as easily as it did in the past. My horse consistently pulls back and so I have a breakaway halter and the metal loop thingy that the rope slides through. Every time he pulled back, it is the halter that breaks, not the binder twine. I think it’s no longer made from sisal. . .

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I’ve never used baling twine to tie, only a leather halter. I can imagine that some twine could be much stronger than others.
Like you said, there are different halter options now, so I think twine can be a thing of the past.

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Yeah, baling twine usually isn’t sisal anymore.

If I was near where that trainer is I’d ā€œdrop inā€. I was surprised to read that the horse that died had been at her barn for years.

Adding - in a big believer in the blocker tie or something similar for all horses.

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(a) Good quality leather halters don’t break easily. It is usually the hardware that gives first, which should give you the idea of how much force is required.

(b) If your horse has learned to set back and break free, DO NOT TIE IT EVER. Tying with a breakaway halter just reinforces the habit, making a dangerous horse even more dangerous in the event that something doesn’t break.

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That’s why you (g) have ā€œat homeā€ leather halters and ā€œat showsā€ leather halters. Ours weren’t tied at shows. I must say, I never have known a horse that fought being tied until it broke the halter, but I do remember seeing one that did that at a show.

It was a leather halter (no one would use a nylon or rope halter, even at local shows.)
I have no idea of the quality of the halter though, since I didn’t know the people and wasn’t close up. It was good that something gave though, because the horse wasn’t giving up.

Leather will give before nylon or rope, and rope has no hardware to break. As @Bluey mentioned, leather will certainly do less damage to a struggling horse’s head.

I can’t bear to go back and read to see if the type of halter that poor horse was wearing is mentioned.

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I prefer to train my horses rather than relying on equipment that creates habits that endanger not only the horse but also everyone around it. YMMV

I’ve had this argument on COTH before and won’t rehash it again.

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I’ve always ā€œpreferredā€ to train horse to tie as well. I did mention that I’ve never personally known a horse that didn’t tie well, didn’t I? The horses that were bred, owned and trained by my mentors were very well trained to tie, as were the horses I have trained.

The reason they and I used a leather halter is because stuff happens with horses. You can train until the cows come home but there is always a situation that you or your horse have never seen coming, and I was taught to take that into consideration, because the safety of the horse and people were #1.

Stock horse breeds or crosses react quite differently than TBs or some pure Arab lines (I have no experience with Warmbloods) and that may be the difference that we are missing here.

My QH was completely different in temperament and reactions than my TBs or the Arabians that I rode. You have to know the disposition of horse you are training to tie.

My (slim) father (only a happy hacker) had a QH Arab cross and she was very docile.

However, none of the <14.3 hand horses I have known, would have tolerated being ridden by the obese men that are ubiquitous in the Western world of today. I don’t know if that has anything to do with todays QH docility, probably not, but my QH and my Dad’s QH/Arab were ā€œborn brokeā€ and bless their hearts they were tolerant, they never felt the need to spook or struggle when tied.

I doubt they would tolerate the weight that reining horses are expected to carry these days though. They weren’t deadheads, they were just kind and docile.

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I think it depends on your twine.

The stuff I use for my small square bales is standard, will break, baling twine.
The stuff the big bales come with is synthetic and I would not use it as a break-away point.

To me it is pretty obvious the difference between synthetic and natural twine.

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I think mine on the square bales is a nylon type but I haven’t seen a horse yet who can’t break a small loop of it. Loop on trailer or wherever then tie the horse to the loop. If he pulls back or panics etc it breaks. Hopefully the (leather or breakaway) halter doesn’t break and definitely not the horse.
Of course you wouldn’t do that if you’re being punitive and abusive

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You can weaken the twine, just cut through it part way. Both large and small squares around here have polypropylene string - pink, orange, blue.

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When people used to just tie a colt first time and move it so it would feel tight and fight it a bit and learn to stand there, they quickly learned not to do that, many horses would tpanic and ry to kill themselves before learning anything.
So, they thought this a bit longer and decided is the trying that needs improving and used inner tubes around the post so it would have a bit of give when the horse fought, eventually using things like the gadgets that lets rope feed thru a bit with a hard pull, or wire/twine so it would. break, not the horse.

I was lucky to learn from an excellent retired cavalry officer and he always made a point to teach a horse to give before tying fast AND in the right situation and using common sense, learned by being told time and again if not inherent.

The important point, tying is something we need to teach and use with our horses, but after being taught to give when feeling restricted, not fight and in the right situations.
This story here, everyone rushing to go, deciding to leave horse behind and tying it and leaving it just there for hours to come?
What happened may have been an unavoidable accident that could have happened even with people there intending to tie horse just for a minute while fetching another horse, or a consequence of leaving a horse there unattended in an unsafe situation.
I think that is what the courts had to decide.

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I agree with you, except once I was at a jumping clinic and a really quiet, kind QH was startled by the tack room door on the trailer swinging around and popping him on the rear. (A wind gust) The edge of the brush holder on the door hit him just right and punctured a hole in his bum. It was bad. He jerked back hard but halter and lead held so he lunged forward striking his forehead on the trailer. I helped her load him up and take him to the nearest vet clinic. By the time we got there the hole had split across his left upper hind, his head was bleeding so his face was covered in blood, and he was shaking so bad we barely got him off the trailer.

It still makes me sick when I remember how bad he looked. After that I got in the habit of always closing my tack door whether a horse was tied near or not. It might have been a good thing that he didn’t get free though, I hate to think how much worse that bum slice would have been if he’d run off.

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Did he recover? That sounds horrible.

Yes, it took a couple of hours to stitch him up and for him to recover from the anesthesia but we eventually got him back to the event. The vet did a beautiful job fixing him, he put these super sticky bandages vertically across the bum wound to help hold the stitches. The face bled a lot but after cleaning it up they didn’t have to do much. I’ve always heard that facial wounds can look terrible and it did!

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It appears there is a new lawsuit happening in this case.

The trainer is suing people who have said things against her.

Link to the complaint

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Well as long as what everyone said was true and verifiable she has no case

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Interesting. I must have missed something because I thought she had posted on FB that the matter was settled.

This sounds like prime material for the Barbra Streisand Effect.

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