It’s not just the flying hooves. A horse that’s flailing like this is entirely unpredictable. They slam their heads into things, they lunge forwards and then set right back again - you have no idea where they’re going to end up.
I would not feel comfortable getting anywhere near it with a knife, inside or outside the stall.
It’s easy to say now, knowing the consequence that this was fatal, that a knife wound is less bad than being dead. But in the heat of the moment, I would not be willing to have an accident with the knife stabbing the horse in the head somewhere, because I don’t know the “if I don’t take this [really big risk] the horse will die” end result.
If you choose to call me “pie in the sky,” so be it, but I’ve been there and done that. There are some situations, in my opinion, that there is no choice. Right knife in the right place can cut a lead rope, a nylon or leather halter, and even tack amazingly well and fast.
Of course, I write this after seeing my spine doc for spondylosis.
But that horse you cut the halter off of was not flipping around like a fish when you did it.
If you can find a still moment or a way to be far from the action where you have a clear and safe shot at the cut, go ahead and try. But when a horse is actively losing it, no way will I chance it if it involves getting fully in the fray.
Actually, yes, they were flailing and you have to be smart in how and where you make your approach. There were a couple where I was able to use the flailing as a lever to enhance the cut of the knife, e.g. a horse that somehow tied its head to its leg with a standing martingale, or another where the horse bolted backwards out of a trailer without being untied.
I would say that I approach the whole thing from a variable frame of reference where the flailing horse is at rest if you flail with the horse, e.g. taijiquan.
All this being said, the barn I’m currently at has some kind of breakaway ties where the cross-tie ropes attach to the ring in the wall. Because you are never sure when normally placid Dobbin will go bonkers.
Yes. My mare’s response to the sudden pressure of hitting the end of a normal tie is to panic. The blocker ring is much more like a gentle reminder that she should stay put.
Luckily these panics have happened only a few times, and in all cases, something other than her got broken.
She never picked up the habit of busting loose “just because.”
Horse #1. Rope halter. Float training. Horse was resting quietly (very, very quiet horse). Horse moved his head, rope halter snagged on something. Panicked. Thrashed. Sat down. We cut the rope knot under his chin to release the lead. Horse fell out the back of the float.
Horse #2. Rope halter. Horse was loaded, secured, second horse approached float. Horse (again a very very quiet horse) turned his head. Rope halter again snagged. Horse panicked and jumped into the front of the float. He put his foot through the bars of the divider and ripped the divider out, hoof wedged in it (so divider is now attached to his hoof).
Horse then went backwards, lost footing, and got his rump wedged under the bum bar with his left forefoot and the divider over the midrail. So his elbow is in the left bay, his body is in the right, his butt is stuck out.
This horse we cut out of the float with a grinder. He was, at heart, very quiet. We managed to get foot and divider back into his bay, cut the rump bar (which had jammed) and lead him off the float… divider on fetlock. We then cut the divider off. He was a trooper and never had an issue floating again.
Neither of these floats were mine. I tied exclusively to baling twine and I carry a knife in my truck at all times. I try not to use rope halters to float either….
So TL;DR?
Absolutely I would cut free a horse if I could. In this case, a person may have been able to cut the rope from outside the stall, maybe, through the bars (not sure) close to where it was tied.
My mum and I saw a 17hh thoroughbred slip and slide under a wire and post fence once. Horse had a bad rep for being a complete d!ck and was not quiet. I was about 13, Mum is not horsey at all. I sat on the horse’s neck whilst Mum gingerly cut the fence, then dragged the front of the horse around to free him. He survived, we survived, but it was pretty scary. He was a big boy and very explosive, but he got such a shock he just lay there. Sometimes people being present is enough to calm a horse that would otherwise kill itself. Not always, but I wonder… if someone was there, even if tbe horse still ended up in a bind and they couldn’t cut him loose… if they were there, maybe that horse wouldn’t have panicked quiet so bad.
All of this is good to read because I was wondering, if someone had been there, would trying to cut him down from the adjoining stall have been feasible (again, wouldn’t look at the photos so don’t have a clear idea of the stalls in question).
I’m also interested to read comments about approaching a horse losing his sh’t. Very recently I was in a lower-grade situation where one was loose in a somewhat narrow aisle. Loose horse was running back and forth while the ones in their stalls were taking bites at her from over their doors. She was getting increasingly panicked – and slipping on the aisle, crashing into things. She got herself into her own stall blessedly unhurt, while I was figuring out how I could get a halter on her or otherwise ahold of her without getting creamed. I keep thinking of all the people I know whom I think would’ve just stepped right up.
I’ve caught my fair share of loose horses (including two full drafts running loose after midnight in the pitch dark), freed some that sat back on a hard tie, untangled others from lunge lines/fences/what have you. There is a HUGE difference in a horse spooking and and reacting but still has a light on upstairs vs one in complete blind panic. The former still sees you as a human that You Should Not Step On, but the latter is willing to hurt itself and others to escape whatever is happening.
Don’t beat yourself up, it sounds like you may have been dealing with a situation closer to blind panic. And in an environment that wasn’t ideal for staying safe while wrangling said horse (I hate horses being able to reach into an aisle, personally).
As far as the cutting this particular horse loose from where he was tied, that does require someone actually THERE to do it. Which it sounds like there wasn’t in this case. Tying a horse improperly is one thing. Tying a horse improperly on purpose, leaving the horse unsupervised, lying about the COD, hiding the evidence, etc etc etc, is the problem here.
I thought their theories, based on what they know, were an interesting thought and this is a discussion forum, they were discussing.
I might want to tar and feather this trainer, but I still appreciated the post by VXF.
In this specific case, though the photos I have seen do not show the actual top of where the rope is tied, it looks like the horse could have been quite easily cut down from the aisle. The horse was tied inside a stall on the aisle wall.
Edit to add - here is a VERY cropped image of one of the photos.
This was taken inside the stall. That is the rope the horse was tied with.
It depends on what that horse was DOING when it was fighting though. Based on the amount of blood outside the stall, he was slamming his head into those stall bars with force.
Sure, you could have cut it when there was a lull in the action, but the horse may have already been dead at that point.
A horse setting back doesn’t just put its weight back and then wiggle back and forth. They’re forward, they’re back, they’re up, they’re down, they’re whale-flipping their heads around, they’re slamming into everything. And, if this halter was in the horse’s mouth like I have a hunch it was, the panic level is even greater.
To cut the high point of this rope, one would have had to go find a step stool or a ladder, then place it there, then… horse is probably already dead.
Bottom line is - don’t tie solid to anything, and if your horse gets in a bind pray they have the mind to give you just a half a second to get in there to do something. For me? I stand back and wait for the lull, I’m not the hero that’s going to get pummeled trying to release the horse.
Oh for heavens sakes, this is a ridiculous argument. That rope OBVIOUSLY could have been cut from outside the stall if someone had been there. People have different comfort levels on getting close to a panicky horse without a barrier. Fine. But unless you have a fear of walls? THIS horse could have been cut free if he wasn’t alone.
None of the pictures show the top of the tie, so it doesn’t matter what you think you know about walls. What stuck through the stall front was the tail of the tie, not the end that held the horse. It could be that you could have sawed through the rope without reaching in. It could also be the rope was entirely in the stall, and you’d have to reach through and risk the horse impaling itself on the knife you’re holding, or breaking your hands and arms in the process.
I know what I don’t know, and I don’t know that this horse could have been cut loose safely.
You don’t want something that releases them every time they jerk their head around( to say )get a fly or try and walk off. Just something that breaks when panic pressure is applied, as in a pull back.
At that time the horse isn’t in a frame of mind to learn that they are getting away from being tied.
If you use velcro ( or something else) and it gives to every little pressure then you will have a horse who learns to pull until they get loose. I use square baler twine in a loop , attached to my tying place and tie the lead rope to the twine.
I am glad I didn’t see the pictures because the description of the horse was way more than I needed. I hope this trainer is found guilty because that is grisly.
I know I’m rethinking my affection for dutch doors.
The former still sees you as a human that You Should Not Step On, but the latter is willing to hurt itself and others to escape whatever is happening.
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ETA: And either scenario, a slippery-a** concrete aisle is wildly unhelpful. I love, love, love those rubbery, spongy, phony bricks you often see at the track, in the paddock areas.
