It sounds like your horse isn’t suitable for a rider at this level, and your expectations of the lessee seem pretty over the top. It’s great if someone wants to those things, but it’s not part of a standard lease and it’s not really reasonable to expect them to do more than basic grooming and tacking up and untacking to ride unless you make it clear up front that it’s a requirement.
I joined the boards so I could respond to this-
OP my daughter is 10, just started leasing and she would be thrilled to come out just to care for the horse, see what the vet and farrier do and do as much as she could on the ground. And I am happy to drive her there. I know nothing about horses really but trying to learn and I would be at those appts myself to make sure my daughter was taking care of and treating the horse the way in needs to be treated and I would be in contact with you consistently to make sure she is following through/doing things the way they should be done (also why Im on these boards reading so I can learn some things). My daughter also takes lessons twice a week so she can learn as much as she can since I see it as a big responsibility.
Anyways, my point is, like others have said, this isn’t a good match but there are good kids and parents out there that would be great to lease to. Keep looking and good luck!
This is your 1st horse, a 6 year OTTB. Where is your trainer?
Leasing a green horse to anyone isn’t the best idea, unless it is to someone very experienced.
This is the horse you were going to buy a year’s worth of supplements for, before you even bought it, correct?
Based upon that fact and your others posts here, I’m going to say that you yourself are not all that experienced either.
You obviously have a need to “mentor” young girls, which is a wonderful thing. However, you may not be the best mentor when it comes to horses due to your lack of experience.
I think it would be most beneficial for everyone (including the horse) for the lease to end, find a trainer and get mentored yourself, the horse into training, and last but not least…Go volunteer for a Big Sister’s program.
This reminds me of advice someone gave me about dating. When you find yourself saying, “He/she’d be great if only [x],” accept that the “if only” is not going to happen. This lease would be great if only the kid would be more involved in the horse care, a little more confident in her ride, a little more open to learning new things. Not going to happen right now.
Not everyone wants to learn the things we think they should learn. There is also a LOT to learn about horses, and most of us can only learn so much at once. Maybe she’s more interested in improving her ride at this point and later on will wonder about care.
Also, many people lease or lesson to explicitly avoid the trappings of ownership, like having to hang out at the barn waiting for the farrier or taking time off of school/work to meet with the vet/chiro. For many people, this is simply not feasible and that is one of the reasons they don’t own a horse.
Lastly, as a kid of parents who weren’t around a lot and didn’t really get the horse thing, I am confident that there is nothing you can do to make her mother more willing to drive daughter out to the barn or more interested in fostering her knowledge of care. While the girl relies on her mom for a ride and money, this is what you’re going to get.
[QUOTE=pattnic;8939973]
End the lease. This is not a good fit.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
G.
[QUOTE=thecolorcoal;8940023]
I can’t get any bucks out of her no matter how hard I try, neither can my friend and neither can my “schooler.” [/QUOTE]
How many people are riding this green horse?
Unless it is in the lease, it is not customary that someone leasing a horse shadow and be mentored by the owner. Expecting her to take good basic care of the horse when she rides (cooling out, grooming) is reasonable. Excepting her to come watch the farrier so she can learn is not. She did not agree to be your mentee, she agreed to pay $X for Y amount of riding time. That is all.
I guarantee if the horse is acting up under saddle it is because of how the girl rides and not due to their lack of a bonding relationship.
Your expectations sound unreasonable. I think it is best that you end the lease.
[QUOTE=thecolorcoal;8939966]
Thanks everyone. These were the responses I knew inside but am in some denial about…
I have a big heart. What say you about the girl? I feel like there is something deeper I might be able to pull out of her or am I just being a dreamer? I’ve never leased my horse out before. I love her to bits and pieces but as this drags on I am getting more and more upset.
What shocks me is this is 180 from how I was as a leaser. I just can’t imagine ANYONE not wanting to learn the full aspects of horses hoof to ear, from mucking to clipping to giving shots. I wanted to be head-deep in it all, because I didn’t really have mentors when I bought my horse and only could draw from every blessed experience I had to experience real horse care growing up.
Now another question: is there a way to fix this or do I need to have a serious candid conversation with mom and Leaser? Is any hope to make them open their eyes lost?[/QUOTE]
You aren’t going to change this girl - and even if you could, it doesn’t sound like her mother would go along. Your mare is just additional saddle time for the kid; they aren’t looking for the kind of situation you have with (or want for) your horse.
End the lease and find someone else who is more in line with your philosophy.
[QUOTE=SweetMutt;8940439]
This reminds me of advice someone gave me about dating. When you find yourself saying, “He/she’d be great if only [x],” accept that the “if only” is not going to happen. This lease would be great if only the kid would be more involved in the horse care, a little more confident in her ride, a little more open to learning new things. Not going to happen right now.
Not everyone wants to learn the things we think they should learn. There is also a LOT to learn about horses, and most of us can only learn so much at once. Maybe she’s more interested in improving her ride at this point and later on will wonder about care.
Also, many people lease or lesson to explicitly avoid the trappings of ownership, like having to hang out at the barn waiting for the farrier or taking time off of school/work to meet with the vet/chiro. For many people, this is simply not feasible and that is one of the reasons they don’t own a horse.
Lastly, as a kid of parents who weren’t around a lot and didn’t really get the horse thing, I am confident that there is nothing you can do to make her mother more willing to drive daughter out to the barn or more interested in fostering her knowledge of care. While the girl relies on her mom for a ride and money, this is what you’re going to get.[/QUOTE]
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
You need to listen to the horse.
You changed to a stronger bit for the rider. No. No. No. You did the opposite of listening to the horse.
A green horse does not need a green rider.
Even a good rider and trainer riding a young horse need to be able to ride a buck. Just for the day they are tested.
It is a skill to know how a horse goes for you is not how they will go for someone else. She is overhorsed.
End the lease. JMHO.
[QUOTE=thecolorcoal;8939966]
What say you about the girl?
What shocks me is this is 180 from how I was as a leaser. I just can’t imagine ANYONE not wanting to learn the full aspects of horses hoof to ear, from mucking to clipping to giving shots. I wanted to be head-deep in it all, because I didn’t really have mentors when I bought my horse and only could draw from every blessed experience I had to experience real horse care growing up.
Now another question: is there a way to fix this or do I need to have a serious candid conversation with mom and Leaser? Is any hope to make them open their eyes lost?[/QUOTE]
I say this girl is on the way to ruining your horse and that soon you will see her pulling the bad behavior on you too.
This girl is not you and you are not going to change that. Her " just wanting to ride" is pretty typical of someone who likes riding (ex: my daughter) but isn’t what I would call a horse crazy person (ex: me).
Fix it by finding a person to lease with the experience to ride your horse without ruining her in the process. Or don’t lease her at all and find the time to ride her yourself.
Why are you leasing the horse in the first place?
[QUOTE=thecolorcoal;8940000]
Thanks everyone. I really do appreciate and I am happy that others also think this is a bad situation, defending my gut feeling.
I agree: my horse has Never EVER bucked anyone off and this girl has nearly fallen off 5 times so far from horse crow hopping and attempting to toss her over her head. I have begrudgingly turned to stronger bits (horse rides in a loose ring snaffle) and this has made the problem worse, not with the bucking but this girl reefs on my poor baby’s mouth with the gag I gave her so I had to put her back in the snaffle as fast as I could.
Understand that I am also pretty green to teaching green riders. I work with experienced riders who know as much as I do. I think my mare could teach this girl a lot if she was willing to learn.
I am going to push for lessons. If mom says no then the lease will end. I need this girl to be monitored as I am afraid someone will get hurt.
Can I just say I hate being an adult sometimes?! 
I am very very disappointed. I only agreed because this girl talked up about how “good she was,” and upon the initial ride I could tell this might not be the case but I gave her the benefit of the doubt… Now I feel like a giant fool.[/QUOTE]
Wait, you gave a GAG bit to a young, green rider on a young, green horse?
End the lease ASAP. You cannot make a person want it if they don’t want to. It sounds like she wants to be the type to hop on a fully groomed and turned out horse and then hop off and hand over the reins.
Quit being a doormat for these people (free lessons, low lease fee???) and take care of your horse, who should be your #1 priority.
[QUOTE=Railbird;8940670]
Why are you leasing the horse in the first place?[/QUOTE]
It sounded like you we’re leasing because your job has you busy… yet you have time to give riding and horsemanship lessons to this girl?! End the lease and use that time to ride instead
End the lease.
If you’re going to lease the horse in the future, don’t lease a green horse to someone that you are expecting to learn to jumping on a more difficult horse. That is part of a coach’s job, to progressively challenge a rider. Make lessons with a coach mandatory in your contract in the future, not lessons with you. I’m sorry, but upping bits is not the right move at all for a green horse/green kid.
I had a conversation about leasing horses with someone today. Every situation is different, but we were talking about how a lot of the time when younger horses are advertised for lease the people wanting to lease them are maybe not ideal riders skill wise for them. My friend proposed the idea that why this happens is more skilled riders look to lease horses that have more miles, since unless you LOVE training horses why pay to train someone some else’s horse?
ETA: Not all people who lease are horse crazy, no matter the age. Some just like to ride. I wouldn’t hold it against the person leasing if they don’t want to be at all the horse’s appointments. In your situation that’s your job, you’re the owner. When one of my horse’s was leased to someone I told them when the appointments were and gave them any info they needed related to riding the horse, no expectation of them being there. They aren’t paying you to be at the vet appointments.
green + green = black & blue (and possibly a lawsuit)
This is a bad fit and by continuing to let someone get on a horse that has repeatedly bucked her off and threatened to bolt, you are putting yourself in a risky position. If she wants to become a true horse person she will find other opportunities. Letting her sour your green horse isn’t going to teach her anything and can very quickly ruin a good horse.
[QUOTE=vxf111;8940904]
It sounded like you we’re leasing because your job has you busy… yet you have time to give riding and horsemanship lessons to this girl?! End the lease and use that time to ride instead[/QUOTE]
Sounds to me like the horse needs training/miles and instead of paying a trainer, OP is leasing it. I’m frankly surprised anyone would pay to ride a green 6 year old OTTB- if she’s regularly bucking ANYONE off, it sounds like paid professional training is in order, not asking for money for the privilege of riding an unruly green horse. :no:
Some kids at very high end barns have “practice horses” who they ride to give them hours in the saddle. They are often older and tolerant. The fact is, however that practice doesn’t make perfect. Only perfect practice does. She’s clearly not riding your horse well and the horse is showing it. Time to end the arrangement.
It’s possible that kid thinks that since she rides at a high end barn that she can train your horse. Clearly, she is not. Whatever she is doing, it has to stop, for the horse’s sake.
[QUOTE=Railbird;8941074]
Sounds to me like the horse needs training/miles and instead of paying a trainer, OP is leasing it. I’m frankly surprised anyone would pay to ride a green 6 year old OTTB- if she’s regularly bucking ANYONE off, it sounds like paid professional training is in order, not asking for money for the privilege of riding an unruly green horse. :no:[/QUOTE]
That’s a little harsh. OP had stated, for what it’s worth, that she isn’t getting these behaviors out of the horse. So saying the OP is just too cheap to pay for training on the horse doesn’t seem accurate. I do agree with the poster who said that these behaviors are more than likely related to the riding style rather than the horse “resenting” the lack of personalized attention. They simply aren’t that smart, and thinking otherwise is pure anthropomorphism.
Regardless, I would recommend ending the lease ASAP, before more damage is done to your horse. If you want to educate the upcoming generation, which I fully support, volunteer for your local pony club or 4-H. At least they’re willing to learn.
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The majority of people who lease horses, lease a horse because they can’t own for one reason or another. I would not ever expect a leasor to attend medical appointments and “form a bond” with the horse. Especially a younger person who might actually want their own horse. What the ends up with is heartbreak for the young person at the end of the lease.
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How many different people are riding this horse? Four? And if there are so many people riding the horse, why are you leasing it out? Generally I find that leases of green horses do not go well. Here’s what happens: You post the lease on facebook or whatever, and everyone who is really qualified to help the horse scans right past the ad because they want to get paid to put mileage on your green horse. A bunch of horse crazy teenagers respond, most totally inappropriate for the horse. Occasionally, you will find an experienced person who is desperate to ride that does not want to be paid willing to lease the horse for dirt cheap or free.
This is not a good match but no one is going to be a good match until you reevaluate your expectations.
Aside from the horse & Leasee not getting along, I think the OP’s expectations are unrealistic.
This gal does not own the horse. How many times has COTH advised overwrought leasees that despite how much they wuv the horse they are leasing, it.is.not.their.horse? At least a couple thousand times. The OP finds 1 of 3 leasees who actually understands that & is disappointed.
This sounds like a half-ish lease since the leasor is so involved. If the owner of my lease horse was that hands on, no way would I be standing around for a farrier. Heck, I didn’t always come out for the farrier when he was shoeing my own horse. Some people have these annoying things called jobs or school which do not always allow one to be there for a vet or blacksmith.
