Lease horse, digging/pawing when ridden after injections & shockwave? Neglectful conditions?

Hello all!

I apologize, but this is going to be a very long post, and if you read the whole thing, thank you so much!

I come to you looking for some answers about a horse that I had been leasing for the past year, but now that my lease has ended I’m curious if anyone has experience with some of the quirks that I had been dealing with with this horse.

Just to preface: I am a junior, I’m 17, and I graduated high school early, hence why I had so much time on my hands to work with this horse. I don’t have horsey parents, so this whole ordeal was a learning experience with the many things that went wrong. I had only ever ridden seriously at this barn and with this trainer so I was sheltered and uneducated at the beginning of my experince there(when I was around 13). My only source of “acceptable” information being from this trainer, I say “acceptable” because any outside info that I, or others, tried to contribute from other science based sources was dismissed, and anyone who went against the “traditional” approach was belittled and mocked to other members of the barn for going against the trainer. By this point, I have learned a lot, mostly to be skeptical of what people say, but my experience with this horse has been very enlightening to say the least. I now know better than to accept the conditions under which this horse and the others in this barn were living, which I would now classify (at least in part) as neglect. Needless to say, I have left the barn where the events of this post unfolded. Towards the end of my lease on this horse I stopped taking lessons and only worked with this horse on my own (under adult supervision) on the flat and on the ground to try to help him with many of his issues.

Okay, so the backstory on this horse is extensive and I could go on about many of his quirks, but here’s a (sort of) summary:

I leased a 16 year old gelding that was very experienced in the hunters, he regularly competed in the 3’6" and went to lots of horse shows, and got many good ribbons at capitol challenge, essentially he was a very fancy guy. He was always difficult to ride, and not the comfiest, which I always thought was a side effect of his “flashiness”. He was always very “wiggly”, as in he couldn’t walk in a straight line and you would constantly have to ask him to stop drifting right, then stop drifting left and so on and so forth. He was also like this in the transition to the canter, if you didn’t have your crap together when asking him to walk to canter he would just fall out in every possible direction, wherever there was a hole in your aids he would wiggle through it. Now I question the extent to which this was normal, especially for the lease fee on this horse and what he was “marketed” as. Especially I question these issues due to realizations that I later made about the barn, trainer, and owner involved with this horse.

When I began my lease he had pretty bad muscular atrophy, and some neuro issues found on his pre-lease, that were due to the trainer not riding him regularly, and him never getting turn out, something that as I continued with this lease became more and more apparent as an issue.

The owner had recently graduated college and moved away, and was not involved with his care other than paying the bill for full training and grooming before he was leased to me. He had always had a reputation in the barn for being “spooky”, not dangerously spooky, but just a “very unsure type” as coined by the trainer. At the beginning of the lease this was not a huge issue.

After I began the lease, he improved immensely, as I would ride him every day, I focused on trying to build his topline and balance back slowly (sans guidance from said trainer, I was freestyling it because she didn’t see anything wrong with his condition despite commentary from the vet). I did lots of ground poles and walking and trotting raised poles, worked with him on the ground, did lots of work on grooming to try and help him get over some of his spookiness with people on the ground. He improved his topline, spookiness, and balance within the first few months of my lease.

He continued to do well, at his mid-lease vet check (this was something we chose to do to see where he was at with the issues stated at the beginning of the lease), at this check the vet said that he looked the best that he has ever looked (probably due to actually being ridden and having human interaction). Later, we had the vet come out to see where he was at on soundness three months before the end of the lease, as he was known as a horse that regularly needed maintenance, likely due to the sheer amount of time he spent showing. He had not needed any maintenance thus far in our lease, which the vet had said was abnormal for him.

Vet said that he was not lame, but flexed slightly to the hocks, and he had some slight soreness in the back so the decision was made to do hock injections (biological, I’m not sure exactly which one) and shockwave on his back under guidance from the vet and input from the trainer. My saddle was also assessed for fit and it fit him well.

He had injections and shockwave done, after stall rest for a few days and light work he came back with little differences- I didn’t notice anything and I was the one riding him and caring for him every day, despite paying for full training and grooming (the trainer/barn would not complete the services included in training/grooming despite being paid, I took on many of the responsibilities). A month or so after his treatment I began to notice some issues, he had picked up a habit of stopping and aggressively digging whenever he was asked to do something that he had always found difficult.

He had always had an issue with halting when asked, as well as backing up. I worked with him on the ground after his treatment to train him to understand verbal cues for both halt and back up. He showed some improvement from this, and would stop and backup without tossing his head and pulling down on the bit as he used to (I was always careful with rein pressure and not pulling too hard, however, I can’t say for what others have done in the past). I also implemented walking over raised ground poles and hill walking to try and improve his topline and musculature, which helped the appearance of his back slightly. However, despite the initial improvement, he quickly started to deteriorate. He improved at the trot, his balance was better and he was better able to carry himself instead of leaning on my hand, however, many of the small issues with leaning that he had at the beginning of my lease had escalated.

When asked to track right (he had always been difficult to turn right and walk in a straight line on the right) he would stop and dig agressivley switching from leg to leg, my solution was to pat him on the shoulder to get his attention because adding leg to go forward would just result in him pawing faster and backing him up only escalated the situation to the point where it felt like rearing was a possibility. Additionally, when asked to pick up the right lead canter in the past he had always very quickly taken his shoulder left and avoided the transition, but now he would do the same thing, stop and aggressively paw. To try to prevent this, if I felt the pawing coming I would try to distract him, i.e. change up what we were doing and come back to it when he was in a better state. Mainly taking him to walk over some raised poles to change his focus and relax him, but this digging habit still persisted. Obviously I considered the possibility of pain, but given the situation that we were in with him having just had treatment and him never having any of these issues before the treatment, I was confused. I palpated his back (given that I’m not trained on how to due this except from watching the vet and asking questions) and didn’t notice anything. He was sound under saddle and to jog on the flat- I checked. Given the fact that I am limited in years and wisdom, I could have been wrong but I knew this horse pretty well so I tend to think that I wasn’t. He would also dig like this occasionally when being led for ground work, when asked to track right at the walk or go over ground poles on the right, which to me lessened the idea of back soreness causing it, but I could be mistaken on that as well.

Has anyone ever had a horse paw like this under saddle or on the ground? I’ve asked many people at this point and no one has experienced this, so I am very curious.

He also slowly started to get spookier and spookier, to the point where with only a few weeks of the lease left I decided not to ride him anymore because it became too dangerous, counter productive, and just pointless with him being too stressed to focus on anything or participate in any of the strengthening exercises that I had orchestrated. Then, in the last week or so he became extremely spooky even to hand walk, to the point where it was dangerous, so I decided in the last few days just to enjoy spending time with him in his stall.

I believe at this point that the escalation of spookiness was just plain old mental deterioration, from living the unfortunate life that he is stuck in due to his owner and the trainer/barn. No turnout because they are afraid he will hurt himself because of his spookiness, no consistent riding (at least for 2-3 years before I was leasing him and was at this barn) leading to atrophy, and no socialization at all with other horses or even people. It’s an awful life for a horse, and working with him has made me realize how detrimental his situation has really been for him.

At the age I am, the situation with this horse, and seeing him deteriorate has been very saddening, as well as eye opening to the kind of treatment that horses get in this sport. This kind of thing, in my mind, is why so many people are against equestrian sports. As this situation went on I also considered the possibility that the treatment of this horse, and other horses in this barn could be considered neglectful.

Here’s what makes me think that + just other less than ideal happenings from this situation:

There were often issues with horses having clean bedding (my horse’s stall at least was never properly cleaned, eventually leading my mom to take on mucking out every day while I worked with this horse). Now that my mother is no longer cleaning his stall, he is likely stuck in urine soaked shavings without having his feet picked or being ridden to get out of a stall full of soiled bedding.

Horses also never consistently received their medication (I know, because I would often help prepare feeds). One pony in particular didn’t consistently receive her thyroid medication, and would fluctuate extremely in her weight (something that I think has to do with the thyroid). When I would ask the trainer (who typically prepared feeds aftering spontaneously firing our groom with no notice- a whole 'nother story-) if she had received it yet that day she would say that she didn’t know, meaning that she either would get a double dose that day or no dose.

The trainer would also steal prescription medications from other people’s horses to use for other horses without asking either party (person who’s medicine it was or person who’s horse who was getting the stolen medication), and my lease horse would never consistently receive his equioxx (while I realize that this is a less consequential medication than thyroid medicine, it still seems a little wrong- though I’m not sure its neglectful). We kept track of the number of pills for my horse and it would vary widely within a week, either he would get 3 pills in one week or like 9, so either he was getting double doses or his medication was being “borrowed” (but never returned).

Trainer would also steal feed from other horses, use people’s horses for lessons without their knowledge or consent (and never pay them for the use of their horse). The trainer would never confess even when confronted by owners- owners would find out from other people in the barn after their horse had bucked off a lesson student. Trainer would also use clients equipment + saddles without their consent for her own horse and lesson horses. After purchasing her own horse, she also would only use the barn’s one turnout for her horse, and rarely- if not never- allow any other horses turnout.

The reason that I would consider some of this neglectful- some is clearly just bad management and morals- is due to the provision in some animal abuse laws for lack of space to exercise and adequate living conditions. If someone stuck their dog in a crate and rarely let them out with dirty bedding it would be considered neglectful, at least in my mind, so wouldn’t that be neglectful for a horse?

Anyway, this is a very long post, so thank you if you have read all of it. I think that if you have had a bad experience at a barn you know how long you can go on about it. Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken on anything, I am also just a somewhat self-righteous 17 year old who loves animals, which garners some strong opinions about some of these issues. Also, to note, we did confront the trainer, and inform the owner on the many problems and management issues that occured, but with consistent asking on our end- nothing changed and the owner did not appear to care. We considered ending our lease early at many points, but for one the owner did not really allow us, and due to my attachment to this horse we didn’t end up taking this route.

Despite the rant I would love to know, 1. if anyone has experienced this pawing behavior- and what you may have found, and 2. any thoughts about the situation (barn/trainer/owner) this horse was in, what are your opinions?

Thank you for reading!

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Pawing? If as described, sounds like a pain issue after the injections (or shockwave, but I don’t think it’s that effective to cause that reaction if done competently). Sorry you got talked into that.

The rest as you describe sounds less than stellar. However. It’s not your horse, and if the owner is checked out enough not to care about the devaluation of her (frankly) property, you need to move on. That’s the downside of leasing.

Does it sound like the horse is in a (very) less than good situation? Yes, it does. Did you make a positive difference in this horse’s life in the year that you leased him? Yes. Can you do anything about it now? Likely not. Have you learned a lot? Sounds like.

I’m sorry this is how your lease ended up - not all such stories are bad. But take what you’ve learned from this situation and move forward, always listening to what the horse is telling you.

You have a good heart.

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Sounds like there was definitely something physical going on, maybe multiple things, compounded by poor management. The no turnout thing alone could cause a lot of the issues you describe. No way to know what was going on since you weren’t in a position to pursue diagnostics, but at least now you know what sorts of things to look for when evaluating new barns or caring for your own horse someday.

I will say though, neuro findings on the pre-lease vet check should have been a huge red flag right there. That would have just been the end of the lease conversation for me, no need to pay for someone else’s undiagnosed and possibly dangerous problem. Did you use the trainer/owner’s vet for the PPE? It sounds like they may have been looking out for the trainer’s interests, not yours.

I wouldn’t spend too much time stressing about it now. It sounds like you did everything you could for this horse, and it was never a fair situation for someone at your age and experience level anyway. A lot of us have gotten suckered into similar scenarios in the past, it sucks in the moment but can be a valuable lesson. Unfortunately if you stick with this sport you’ll find that there are a lot of poorly-managed horses out there and there’s rarely anything you can do about it. What you CAN do is be a good advocate for the horses in your care and be picky about who you choose to give your business to. As a junior you don’t always have that kind of control, but it’ll come with time and experience.

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The horse was doing these things when you leased him? Or in the past? This doesn’t sound like a horse that wasn’t being ridden regularly.

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You should likely word this - at this barn, not in this sport.
Large blanket statements about many barns that you know nothing about does not help your case.

Like others have said, it sounds like a pain issue.
It was time to have the vet back out to go over this change and figure out what was causing the issues.

It is not your horse so at this point there is not much you can do.
If you want to fix life for this one horse, then buy it, change its living situation to what you want it to be.

My horses live outside all the time, with access to shelter.
But…I get that in some climates/areas/situations lots of turn out is not an option. It does not make it cruel, it just makes it different.

I get that you now hate this barn and this trainer and a bunch of stuff you describe does not sound like a good situation or good horse management. Once you do not like someone it is easy to see all that they do is evil or bad.

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Why would you initiate this lease?

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Yep. That should have been the end of it.

OP - it’s not “this sport” it’s “this program”. And now you have a list of red flags to walk away from at your next barn/lease/purchase/etc.

The benefit of leasing is you can WALK AWAY. The downside is you don’t have the right or control to change things outside of your contracted responsibilities.

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Lack of exercise does not cause neurological issues.

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Like I said throughout, the extent of the knowledge and guidance that I had was from this one source, as I wasn’t very old/knowledgeable when we began our relationship with her and my parents had no knowledge of horses other than what this trainer told them, we were subject to her guidance. Would I lease a horse with these issues again? Of course not, but I didn’t know any better at the time and for better or for worse my family and myself were stuck dealing with the consequences.

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You’re totally right about becoming jaded towards a certain person/place, and I can’t claim that this is not true for me, but I don’t think that that can completely dismiss the fact that some of the things that went on at this barn do validate not having an amicable view of them, at least for me personally.

Also, you are right that my experiences at this barn don’t speak for all situations everywhere- and the statements that I make about this are from my own perspective of being discouraged about the state of things in the sport- not that things aren’t better elsewhere. Part of the way that this place kept people trapped was by telling everyone repeatedly that there was no better situation than with this trainer, something that I now know to be false since moving elsewhere.

I don’t believe that horses being in stall is inherently abusive or neglectful, of course not, but I do think that based on this situation of this horse in particular and the issues that he was expressing, it was neglectful of his needs to never allow him to spend time outside in the turnout that was available if was not going to be ridden.

Thank you so much @trubandloki for your input, and reading my post- you make many good points.

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This is a very good point and a great reminder.

Maybe it was all worth it so you could learn so much.
I am sorry your learning came with so many negatives. Glad you are on the other side now and can move forward.

I 100% agree with you.
It sounds like lots of things were not quite right at this place.

Hopefully you have found a great new place to keep enjoying horses.

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Thank you @Ghazzu for correcting me, like I said- my wisdom is obviously not unlimited so I appreciate your contribution. It is just my logical thinking that lack of movement, exposure to sunlight, and interaction with others can exacerbate any condition as I think it can in humans (could be wrong) , which was why I included that- but thank you again for reading my diatribe. I probably shouldn’t have written that as a statement, like you quoted, but I will make the excuse for myself that it got to be a very long post in the end

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Thank you @dmveventer for reading my very long post- you are right that I shouldn’t dwell on the situation too long, it’s just my own curiosity getting to the better of me to post it on the internet in search of answers.

And yes, we did use the trainer/owners vert for the pre-lease, and throughout the lease. I would say from some other happenings that this vet was looking out for the trainer/owner and not us- you’re right on that one.

Thanks again for reading @dmveventer

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@fivestrideline, thanks for reading my very long post! Totally agree with you that the neuro finding should have been the end of it- but at the time we (unfortunately) listened to our trainer and vet who told us not to worry about it.

You are also correct, it isn’t this sport, it was that program. When I labeled it as that I was reflecting on my experience with this particular barn and how it made me feel about the sport based on what I saw at this facility. If I worded it as a statement, that is my bad and I take the blame for it. Now that I have gone elsewhere I have seen how much it really was just that program.

We did try to walk away at a few points but were pressured extensively by the trainer and owner + I was attached and wanted to spend the rest of the time with him, despite the many, many issues. Good advice would have been to have left and gone elsewhere sooner, you’re right. It is my own fault to some extent from choosing to stay, but this isn’t to say that the situation wasn’t just plain bad and it shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

Thank you for your input @fivestrideline

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Thank you @paw for reading my very long post! And yes, it was as described- aggressive digging. He would stop in his tracks before being asked to do something that was typically difficult for him and aggressively dig to the point where he would leave massive dips in the footing that I would later have to fill. I was, and still am bamboozled by this- hence why I am taking to the internet looking for someone else who has experienced this- most probably an unwise decision.

I really appreciate your input, and your commentary is very similar to what my mom has said to me about the situation. All very wise guidance, thank you.

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Thank you @trubandloki for reading my diatribe! Luckily I have found a new place that is so far a vast improvement. My curiosity about some of his issues still persist- hence my post. Also if anyone is wondering why I am so stuck on this it is because I am planning on becoming a large-animal vet after going through school so I’m very interested in stuff like this (behavioral issues, equine medicine, ect.), and I couldn’t find any examples of this behavior, so I decided to consult the masses :slight_smile:

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@CBoylen, yes he did do these things in the past. He did the 3’6" junior hunters with his owner, and traveled to the East coast (I’m based on the West coast) with a previous leassee quite a few years ago (I think in 2020?) so by the point that I was leasing him- quite a while ago. And, no, he was certainly not being ridden regularly. His owner would show up sporadically maybe once a week to ride and the riders responsible for riding him would often just not ride him. When I was younger I would spend the whole day at the barn helping out, so I figured out after a while that he was commonly not being ridden. Thanks for your response!

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You have found a different barn and trainer, right?

Plenty of barns exist where horses get no turnout, and plenty of barns exist where trainers steal from clients. The latter is particularly common.

A horse cannot paw if he’s moving forward. Something about your riding approach reinforced that bad behavior. Not a criticism - we all have holes. It’s the rider’s job to train these behaviors out of them. Don’t let him stop and paw.

He clearly has unaddressed physical complaints that are the root of his behavioral issues, but if you don’t own the barn or the horse, you can’t control his management. You cannot change those people or that horse. Unless the owner is willing to sell the horse to you, you have to walk away. That includes mentally washing your hands of it. Chalk it up to a life experience and move on. “Experience is what we get after we needed it.” Find a barn that better fits your training approaches and ideology.

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Hey, you live and learn. Take all this as a learning opportunity - most of us saw the glaring red flags because we have been there before, or watched someone do it!

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The pawing sounds like ulcers and bad ones. It’s a behavior that can be escalated and get worse under saddle, so would make sense that if he’s an unsure type/spooky, and his acid in his gut is splashing around, he’s definitely pawing due to discomfort and frustration. If he’s got other muscular or skeletal issues or arthritis (which can start popping up at this age/time), then he could also be stopping bc of that situation, as well. Sometimes alleviating situations that they’ve been compensating for all along can highlight new ones, which sounds like is happening here. OR the horse just has decided that they no longer want to play the game and they’re done. It does happen.
Honestly, there’s a lot going on here and with a horse of that age, that’s tough bc some of it may be able to be reversed, but not all of it.
As many have said here, you did the best you could with a crappy situation. Find a better arrangement: barn, training, etc. and just hope that this creature is finally given a break and can either settle into a less stressful job or be retired.

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