Lease horse, digging/pawing when ridden after injections & shockwave? Neglectful conditions?

[Amberley]

Did you use Chat GPT to write this post? The wording is very strange.

Far too much poor treatment of horses results from an owner who no longer rides and is not doing their due diligence to make sure the animal is cared for. It happens at all income levels and is far from exclusive to show horses. I know quite a few coaches who recommend that juniors from non-horsey families lease and not buy for this reason- tired of seeing the parents send the horse to a place like this when the kids goes to college to save money. That trainer is scamming people and defrauding people and not a good horseman- period.

As far as turnout- that’s not normal even for the west coast. Yes some facilities have very little turnout but horses still get out as much as possible, and most have in-and-out stalls or paddocks they can use to socialize etc.

The pawing when going one direction is stress- my guess is he is losing his sight or has a neuro problem that makes turning right feel unsafe. It could be painful too. I personally would have a parent reach out to the owner one time and share their concerns with the care and his physical issues. Be factual and concise and don’t get into a back and forth. Then move on. Unfortunately you cannot do anything more. You were right to stop riding, that’s above your paygrade.

This is a good lesson how it’s important to provide a good quality of life for all animals in our care and how some people simply don’t do it. A lot of people just suck. Learn to find the good ones.

[CBoylen]

OK, so horses that are successful 3’6” horses keep getting leased out as successful show horses and keep showing. What you got a lease on was a horse that was basically retired from showing, and maybe even riding, probably because of these issues. I don’t know what your riding goals were at the time or if he suited your purposes, But it’s unsurprising that there were lameness and fitness issues and I think you just need to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.

[Natty_s_Batty]

@Amberley, I didn’t use ChatGpt, although that sounds exactly like what Chat GPT might say, so I guess if you want an answer put it in a checker thing that checks for Chat GPT? I think I’ve just been reading too many Austen novels for school, that’s probably why the wording is weird- I didn’t even realize.

[Natty_s_Batty]

@beowulf, totally agree that it’s a hole in my riding and as someone else said this sort of thing was above my pay grade to deal with- at least without advice from a solid professional on how to handle it to try not the escalate the behavior. Hence why I stopped riding him towards the end. I recently heard that quote that you mentioned somewhere are totally agree, it was certainly a learning experience. Thanks for reading my rant

[Natty_s_Batty]

@CBoylen, haha, funny story is that this horse was supposed to help me with my confidence issues jumping, which he sort of did (he was always great to jump once he knew that was what was happening), but I would say that the negatives that I discussed probably outdid the positives, thanks for reading my post

[NC001]

Many of us have been through situations with bad trainers that don’t allow their clients to challenge anything they say even when they are clearly out of line. Its unfortauntely very common.

IMO a lot of the issues would be helped with regular turn out- especially the spookiness.
I’m sorry you can’t help this horse. You may be able to suggest to the owner that they move barns. Could you lease this horse if it moved to a different barn?

[Mcl1]

First of all - I just wanted to say that I have been in your shoes, and I know how tough it can be to get out of those situations when you are young with non-horsey parents because a lot of trust gets put into the trainer who SHOULD be the “expert”. For everyone saying you should have walked at the PPE findings - at 13, you were obviously relying on your trainer to interpret those and advise you on the best path forward.

As for the pawing - as others have said it sounds like stress or pain, but actually yes - my current horse does this and it was the first time I had seen this behavior. He likes to dig and paw in general - he has excavated some impressively sized rolling pits (and before anyone says anything about him being bored - he lives outside 24/7 in a 4 acre pasture, has a very playful brother, approximately 50 toys, ridden 6 days a week, and lives literally in our backyard so constant human attention). When he gets super worked up (excitement or frustration), he will paw exactly like what you are talking about - digging in and switching feet. He has only done it twice under saddle (once because I had the audacity to ride him in the rain, and once because the neighbors mares were calling to him over the fence and I wouldn’t let him say hi). I consider it his version of a toddler throwing a huge temper tantrum. I just think it is how he expresses his “extreme” feelings just like how some horses buck, some rear, etc. But yes, given the context in your case, I would say he was likely expressing some fear, frustration, pain, etc.

A lesson I had to learn early on in my life is to try not to get overly emotionally invested in other people’s animals. I know it is easier said than done, but unfortunately trying to “fix” situations that you don’t have control over can be frustrating and heartbreaking. It is best to just cut ties and walk away as soon as possible (again, easier said than done).

I hope that you have found a better program where you can succeed. And good for you for being so observant about your lease horse’s needs and problems, and for doing what you could to improve them.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Amberley

Did you use Chat GPT to write this post? The wording is very strange.

I thought the same thing. I work with students, and I would flag this if I were grading an essay.

OP, how long had it been since this horse was showing? Does this barn regularly go to shows? Why did you lease a horse with so many issues, if you expected to show?

[Natty_s_Batty]

@Impractical_Horsewoman & @Amberley I’m so curious, what makes you think that ChatGPT wrote it. I’m in college now so I’d like to keep any advice you may have in mind because this is always how I write, and always how I have written. Also, if you were grading this would you mark it down for that, even though I didn’t use AI? I spent a very long time writing this, and I 100% did not use AI, so I’m worried for my future papers I even ran it through an AI checker after I read @Amberley’s comment to see if somehow I just write exactly like AI and it came back as 100% human, so I am so fascinated by what makes it seem like AI writing.

The owner purchased the horse as a 6 year old and spent her junior years developing him alongside said trainer. No this barn doesn’t regularly go to shows, at least now. Previously, this trainer had been the assistant trainer to a very upper level hunter rider who has since moved to the east coast (who shall remain nameless I don’t want to get sued for defamation), and when said upper level trainer moved, the trainer featured in this story started her own business that at the time of this horse’s development and prime showing years, went to shows regularly.

I did not expect to show, at least nothing beyond a local schooling show. My family’s thoughts were that the money would be better invested in a better quality horse (that we were told was the case with this horse), than on showing extensively. Where I am based one or two weeks at a show can reach around 10,000 dollars, so we decided that money would be better spent on my riding education than showing. Also are these normal prices for shows? I know that it depends on where you are showing at, but does anyone have any comparisons to offer on that?

[Mcl1]

For what it’s worth, I have taught college classes and nothing about your post would make me suspicious of AI. If anything, I was impressed by your writing - I was absolutely floored by how many students in upper level college classes could not even figure out basic punctuation.

[fordtraktor]

I mean the horse does sound high quality if he ribboned at indoors, etc. An older, show you the ropes lease can be very pricey – and it doesn’t always mean the horse is simple to ride.

I question this horse’s eyesight, as did a poster higher. I had a really nice TB I got back from a lease, and he started randomly spooking at noises such that once he plastered himself into the side of a barn running off. The vet found he was like 90% blind due to some massive cataracts.

He ended up going back to a very quiet situation where he lives with a small flock of sheep and seems to be OK there. In my active neighborhood next to residential homes, there were too many loud unknown noises and he was going to kill himself one of these days. I would have euthanized him if he didn’t have that other option, because blindly bolting into buildings was going to end poorly for him one of those days.

It doesn’t sound like the horse is abused or neglected as those things are defined legally. It’s not a situation I would want for my horse, but there is very little you can do but change programs.

[Ghazzu]

@Natty_s_Batty

my wisdom is obviously not unlimited

“Wisdom” has little to do with it.
Physiology has considerably more.

[widge]

I actually thought that OP was a pretty good writer for 17. I’m no college professor but I do have an English BA

[Ghazzu]

@Natty_s_Batty

if you were grading this would you mark it down for that, even though I didn’t use AI?

I’d mark it according to the quality of the writing, which is how I approach AI-generated submissions, and they rarely get above a C.
Saves a great deal of effort trying to parse out who is cheating and who isn’t.

[FjordBCRF]

@Mcl1

For what it’s worth, I have taught college classes and nothing about your post would make me suspicious of AI. If anything, I was impressed by your writing - I was absolutely floored by how many students in upper level college classes could not even figure out basic punctuation.

The biggest giveaway with ChatGPT generated content that I notice, is their use of dashes like this —

I don’t even know how to do one of those on my keyboard

[axl]

I get those if I accidentally use two dashes. And I use dashes when I’m hesitant about colon v. semi-colon. I used to know what I was doing with those, but I no longer care too much.

FWIW, I am about 6 credits short of a BA in literature, and I am a voracious reader, but I am also 50+ and just write for content and clarity at this point in my life when I crunch numbers instead of grammar.

[FjordBCRF]

@axl

I get those if I accidentally use two dashes.

I’ve tried the two to see if they connect and I haven’t been able to replicate it! Maybe its browser/app dependent? – -- – -- – --

Ok every OTHER time I type it they connect

[widge]

Now you’re just using Morse Code!

[GraceLikeRain]

AI over uses em dash so while of course a human can use it stylistically, it is seen as a yellow flag for AI.

I encourage everyone to stay aware of AI as it is our new reality. Use of AI does not negate the value of a post and for those of use who bemoan a post without a paragraph break or punctuation it can be a welcomed aid.

The fact that the original post was 80 miles long with superfluous detail (in the eyes of a chat gpt or similar) didn’t flag for me as AI unless it was used for something light like “proofread and make cohesive” type of prompt.

OP the horse sounds like they have gotten an upgrade being with you. It’s tricky knowing how much to invest in a horse you don’t own. You may not get answers or not with a realistic investment in diagnostics. The transition into adulthood is when many people learn that an adult they really respected at one point lacks integrity or core knowledge in their supposed area of expertise.

[fivestrideline]

@GraceLikeRain

AI over uses em dash so while of course a human can use it stylistically, it is seen as a yellow flag for AI.

Hey now, y’all can pry my em dash out of my cold, dead hands! I use it more than any other similar punctuation - including when I should just end the sentence

Em dashes get used a LOT in one of my circles (published fiction writing), along with semi-colons and “big” words. Guess what they trained a lot of the AI models on? (Stolen works ahem.) So yeah, the bots will mirror the grammar and style of the materials they scraped. Some got trained mostly on Reddit threads, some on high-quality fiction, some on scientific journals, or blogs, or other bots. The only way to clock something as likely to be AI is a “no problem! Here is…” tag at the beginning that makes no sense in context. Certain punctuation, words, and grammar structures are not reliable indicators at this time.

There’s a post going around where people count the em dashes in their work and document that against the total word count - triggered by the idea going around that the punctuation is an AI indicator. Last time I ran mine it was 700+ em dashes in ~120k words?

(ETA fixed typo, 120k not 12k)