Lease horse, digging/pawing when ridden after injections & shockwave? Neglectful conditions?

I’ve used em dashes in informal writing since horses had 3 toes, and I doubt anyone would confuse my ranting with the slop generated by most AI.

Damned if I’m going to surrender idiosyncratic punctuation to the digital overlords.

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This sounds more like AI to me than anything OP wrote!

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I had absolutely no idea that em dashes were something that chat GPT frequented. I had a teacher in high school that would fail anyone that used parenthesis but loved the use of em dashes so that is probably where I picked that habit up. Once something is drilled into you like that, it is hard to shake the habit :joy:. I don’t have any idea how to put an actual em dash into writing without going to the special character section of google docs, so that’s why my post is riddled with just normal dashes. Like others have said, I love my em dashes and am dependent on them to try to get through my writing, especially with my rambely nature.

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Despite his many issues he did teach me a lot- mainly to leave no gaps in my aids when asking a horse to do anything- which has been very helpful when getting on all different types. And as you said, although he had many issues he was a high quality horse. My mom, who is a human nurse, also questioned his eyesight. Her thoughts were that since he never got turnout, and was only ever ridden in a covered arena (at least while I had him), his eyes struggled to adjust to the brighter environment outside the arena thus making him think he was seeing things that he wasn’t. I saw some post somewhere (not on COTH) that claimed that horse’s eyesight needed 45 minutes to fully adjust to changes in light levels but that could be completely wrong. The cataracts are also an interesting possibility, although there is no way to know for certain at this point.

Oh my gosh, someone else who has had the pawing problem! Yes, what you are describing is exactly what he would do. To me, it didn’t seem that he was scared but frustrated- just like you said. It felt like a temper tantrum. It made me think that he was frustrated with me asking him to go in that direction because he was weaker on that side, thus igniting the temper tantrum. He was unevenly muscled as well (as per the vet’s findings) and was weaker on his right side, so maybe that inspired it? Who knows at this point, but I am so glad that someone else has had the same experience because I was so flustered by this behavior showing up suddenly.

I know it as a Word thing. Didn’t realize it works on COTH.

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I’ve experienced the pawing tantrums with 2-3 horses, always seemed to be an expression of frustration. No idea if pain was involved as I didn’t own or lease these horses.

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Some horses paw a lot when very stressed and act almost colicky. In my experience, this can happen from belly related discomfort. Like, they really have to pee but don’t want to pee in that particular environment, ulcers, and the like.

Some horses paw when really stressed for all sorts of other reasons. I guess I see it more in all of the situations without a rider in any case, but I don’t know why it wouldn’t also happen with a rider if the situation was triggering.

Horses who have neurological issues are easily stressed and frustrated. Because the sensations can be weird, intermittent, and something they don’t really understand, as compared to muscle-skeletal pain or discomfort. This is especially true when the horse finds something “hard” because they are unable to feel stable or to adapt due to a neurological deficit.

You saw some red flags but didn’t get the whole story. Maybe the back soreness is related. Maybe it was EPM. Or who knows.

It’s really all speculation from any of us removed from the situation. But here are some positive take aways for you—you discovered a way to condition a horse that promotes better health and soundness and how to do it yourself; you learned about equine welfare and horse management issues; you learned about horse business issues and ethics; and in hindsight you have learned how to evaluate people and horses through a different lens and with some caution.

Good for you for trying to sort this out with some self reflection. You have to know better to do better. You can’t help this particular horse any more, but you can take this knowledge with you. And if you build some confidence in your own intuition as well as learn when you have to step away from and not get entangled in other people’s problems or fall for whatever they’re selling, it can help you in life.

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I wasn’t accusing the OP of using AI–just commenting on the ubiquity of it in college students these days.

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FWIW I was actually going to come here and compliment how articulate your post was. Did not read at all like ChatGPT to me…

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I would put money on this horse’s neurological issues getting worse when he started back sliding with you. The exercises you did at the beginning would have helped him, but at some point neuro horses often reach a point where things get worse at an increasing rate. Mine went from diagnosed in November, to doing really well in January (with postural exercises), to never ridden again in April, to euthanized in October. I could see him getting worse in October.

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While I’m taking the whole initial post with a grain of salt, here is something to think about in your future horse care endeavors:
Several vets have told me that in horses with known neuro issues such as EPM, or with ulcers, joint injections that use steroids can cause flareups of those conditions. If you ever own a horse in the future with known gut problems, you may ask your vet to look into other options of injections that can be gentler on the stomach, or for ones that have been treated for EPM in the past, ask about doing another month of treatment surrounding the joint injections.

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Regarding the “em-dash,” I work with international students who are ESL, and many of them turn in Chat GBT-generated essays. The use of the em-dash alone isn’t a red flag. But I’ve gotten essays that have NO COMMAS in them, and there is literally an em-dash there instead. I’m a tutor, not a teacher, so I’m not grading them. I just tell them that I can tell they used a chatbot. Of course, they are shocked I can tell, and insist they used it “just to brainstorm.”

Apologies to the OP if she did not use Chat GBT. I did find that the formality of the expression to phrase relatively ordinary things, the length of the unbroken paragraphs to be a little odd.

This is the an example of the phrasing I found strange. I’m not picking on you, I swear, I am just explaining why it sounded very unnecessarily elaborate to my ear.

Re: the horse. I understand you leased this horse with a fabulous show record to teach you, but the fact he was no longer showing and had serious medical issues combined is a huge red flag. While some show horses become schoolmasters and well-managed, unfortunately many are not and used up and then discarded when no longer useful. It sounds like the owner is no longer interested in the horse’s welfare and both trainer and owner are trying to make money off of the horse with a new, inexperienced rider. The pawing is the least of the horse’s issues!

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She said the injections were biological not steroidal.

@Natty_s_Batty ~
As fellow 17-year-old junior who has been through very similar situations (with even less control tbh), I understand EXACTLY where ur coming from with this! Lease situations can SUCK sometimes, but unfortunately if you cant afford to buy this is what we are stuck with. Biggest lessons I’ve learned (and that I bet you’re taking away from this): use a vet you trust (this one can be hard - but it is important), read your contract (this is in response the trying to end lease part you talked about - make sure you have an easy escape clause), don’t blindly trust people in this industry (again, we all learn this one the hard way) and do researcrch into treatments your horse is undergoing. Unfortunately, neither of us can do anything for the horses we’ve leased; the best we can do is give them what we can while in the lease. I don’t know if you’ve found a barn yet, but if you’re still looking, let me give you some tips from my positive and negative experiences. 1) listen to what other people say: kinda obvious, but if you’ve noticed a lot of people leaving the barn, find out why (I regret not doing this), also listen to friends or just other people in the industry - reputation speaks volumes. 2) watch how trainers treat their clients: ik you said you don’t show much, but maybe take a trip to a few local shows and look at what trainers are supporting their clients and COACHING, and what trainers are sitting on their phones or off doing something else away from their clients. 3) trial, trial, trial: go try out as many barns as you can afford to, take one or two lessons, get to see the property, and get a feel for the trainer’s style. I wish you luck. This industry is rough, especially for those of us who just don’t have the hundreds of thousands of dollars to own our own horse. Genuinely, the COTH community is a great resource, especially in an industry where it’s hard to find (in my experience and area - zone one stuck up northeast [hate it here XD]). Don’t sleep on people who are willing to give advice! Even if you don’t agree with everything they say, you can take something from everyone! Feel free to reach out to me as well, ik I kinda infodumped here (bored in APUSH and study hall :woman_shrugging:) but I am willing to give any advice or help or anything!

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Thanks @eq_gem for reading my rant! It’s always nice to hear from a fellow junior in a similar situation :slight_smile: I hear you on the use a vet you trust part, I did trust the vet that we used, but now from what everyone is saying I am starting to question some of the decisions this vet made with regards to this horse and others. Looking back it seems like the priority was not the horse’s welfare, but the economic benefit of the trainer and owner. Because of the situation, I didn’t even really think about the possibility of using another vet for a second opinion, because of my limited experience aside from this trainer I wouldn’t have even know where to begin on that venture.

Funnily enough, my mom and I actually wrote the lease contract using a template from a previous lease that we had had (that had gone much better, I just outgrew that horse). The lease did include the ability to terminate early, without any refund of the lease fee (which makes sense), but when it came down to it the owner essentially said that she would refuse to pay any of the costs (board, training, grooming etc.) if we ended the lease early so we decided that we would be better off just getting some of what we paid for and me getting some learning experience out of it, even if that didn’t include riding. Based on the contract, she was responsible for assuming care costs if we terminated early, but from other people I’ve talked to in my area- trainers and owners completely ignoring lease agreements isn’t out of the ordinary. One person I talked to in particular was with a trainer based about a mile away from my old trainer who had her lease horse sold to someone else while it (I don’t know if this was a mare or gelding) was leased out to her. Her trainer also heavily drugged this horse as well as many others. She was a younger junior at the time that that had happened, so similar to me, blindly trusting the trainer was at fault with that situation. She since moved to the program that I am at now, and has been there for many years, with no issues at all. Funnily enough I have heard many stories from people who have had bad experiences with trainers within a particular 10 square mile area, maybe it’s something in the water over there? Who knows.

And oh my gosh are you so right about not blindly trusting anybody, which I learned the hard way.

I did actually find a barn, in a different area from the bermuda triangle of barn disasters. For now I am just going to take lessons and keep up the same amount of riding I was doing when I was leasing because the trainer that I found has really nice lesson horses, and what I am doing now in lessons is the same if not better than what I would be doing if I leased my own horse again anyway. When I was younger lesson places always hit you with the “you have to lease a horse to do that” or “you have to own a horse to do that”, like jumping or even cantering in some cases. The jumping is understandable, as I know that many lesson horses are older/semi retired. The trainer I found now is has a smaller program that allows lesson students to do all the things and is the perfect fit for me at the moment, as I work to undo some of the effects this last lease has had on my riding and confidence. It is amazing to get on horses that you aren’t worried are going to kill you, so much more relaxing lol.

You make such an amazing point about trying many places, I ended up with this last trainer because it was the first place I tried and was infinitely better (at least at a first glance) than places I had been before. I now realize how huge of a mistake this was. This time around I emailed like 30 trainers, and only got responses from 2, I tried both for quite a while and learned a lot but I ultimately ended up going with the program I am in now. My old program (where the lease disaster happened) didn’t have any other juniors, and now that I am at a barn filled with other kids I realize how much more fun riding could have been all those years.

Don’t worry about infodumping at all, I am very guilty of doing that all the time, and thank you for the offer to reach out for advice! I may take you up on that sometime. Also I hope your AP exam went well! I did AP Euro last year, and oh my goodness was that exam brutal.

Also I don’t know if you read all the other comments about my original post sounding like AI, but I partly blame AP classes, with all the timed writing they train you to write in a very formulaic way, which is actually very useful when trying to retell years worth of info on the internet :laughing: I feel like my brain goes “oh must explain this point thoroughly, must go into AP mode” and then the AP writing style makes itself known :joy:

@Natty_s_Batty
The AP effect on writing is so real XD
I’m glad that you were able to find a program, and boy, do I wish something like that existed in my area! I live in the you can’t show off property without a lease (or if you can, it’s crazy expensive) area, so I’m kinda jealous of your new situation :see_no_evil:.
Like I said, I had the same vet experience, blindly trusted a trainer, she did the vet check, horse came up with many issues including SI problems, and she just told us everything was good. When you don’t know better, you don’t know better, unfortunately.
Honestly, as mean as this sounds, if you end up in the same contractual position, just take the out. If it’s written in the contract, provide your required notice and dip. Safer for you, even if it unfortunately puts the horse in a less-than-stellar situation. Make sure you have proof of both your contract and your termination notice, just in case any legal issues are brought up. (not a lawyer, obviously, just into law and have seen lease contract disputes)
Good on you for emailing so many places! Wish I’d known to do my due diligence a few years back, but we live and we learn! (I’m in a better situation now lol)
APUSH exam wasn’t actually that hard… which makes me more nervous LMAO, I wish I could take AP Euro but sadly my school isn’t offering it next year :broken_heart: