Leasing and trainer issues - please chime in!

[findeight]

Unless it’s some kind of prepaid package at some lesson mill type operation and you want a refund, non owners are free to just not show up. If they are trying to be nice, they might say thanks, I’m moving on but they won’t be missed. Truth is once or twice a week non leasing lesson takers simply aren’t that important to them. Even if it’s a good program, they make far more off regular leasers and owners financially committed to using their services year round.

The issue here, for me, is this particular, individual horse has ditched at least two riders repeatedly putting one into an oxer and the ER. Riders overstate their skills, horses spook, s*it happens, part of the deal. But if it happens REPEATEDLY with the same horse pulling the same stunts with different riders??? Trainers supposed to be a professional paid for their expertise, it should NOT be happening. That might require being blunt about suitable mounts they charge novices to ride as opposed to saying " I told them, they didn’t listen. Too bad, so sad about the rod and screws in her leg".

Thats not a good program. That said, horses cost and non owning riders need to accept they might need to pick up some more hours at work to find more suitable mounts in better programs.

[Fiona_785]

The mare probably needs a strong rider with nerves of steel. Don’t feel bad if that isn’t you! (It’s not me either, in fact when I did continue to ride a horse like this, it broke my confidence to the point where I still haven’t gotten it back.) Sounds like she has some holes in her training and has learned that it’s acceptable to act-up and duck out like that. Probably why she’s a lease-horse and not someone’s personal mount. She’s too glitchy for anyone to want to work with consistently. She needs training, obviously- have the “trainers” put any time into her themselves?

As for the barn, I feel like the trainers like to run a big show and don’t invest much in each individual. That wouldn’t be the right fit for me, as an adult ammy-rider, working professional who wants more of a solid, trusting relationship with my trainer and horse. These little lesson-mill type barns are a dime-a-dozen around here and they’re full of kids who don’t care about anything but being in the saddle and winning little ribbons. I avoid them like the plague. If the barn doesn’t suit you, don’t feel badly, just find something more suitable

Edit: read the recent updates and I’m glad you’re moving on.

[alibi_18]

@Artax

My trainer said to me after the incident that “riding [this spooky horse] will be a good learning experience” and that once I find my next horse who isn’t spooky, I will be “prepared” when that horse spooks.

That is BS!

Concussion and injuries are NOT good learning experiences.

It’s not your job to fix this problematic horse. It’s been doing this for years… come on!

This mare is an injury waiting to happen…

Don’t let anyone convince you that a dangerous horse is a good learning experience.

Riding and jumping is already dangerous, don’t make it even more by riding a known dangerous horse.

This horse needs another career. It is NOT normal.

There is a reason why this horse was sold and lease ended… No one wants to jump this mare no more. Don’t fool yourself thinking you can fix this.

Your trainer should be ashamed to putting his/her clients in such a bad position.

[Dee-Vee]

Your loyalty to this barn is misplaced. And you are operating in two different worlds. You see it from a professional perspective. They see you merely as cash. Leaving the barn is not like leaving a job. They won’t care why you leave. They will only miss the money. You will see it all very differently when you are out and wonder why you didn’t leave earlier. Been there. Have the T-shirt and all, and look back on the experience with eyes wide open and know enough to run when I see it again.

As to letting them help help you find a horse. That’s a lifelong trap. Find your own horse when you are ready and experience autonomy over your own riding life. If you stay with your current barn, you will never be free from their control. Not good for you or the horse.

OP it sounds like you are at the beginning of your journey or a new journey with horses. Give yourself a chance to try a variety of things and grow from the experience. Don’t tie yourself to one barn or it’s cache. There’s a big world out there.

[BeeHoney]

@findeight I agree with much of what you say. In this particular case, it sounds pretty clear that this rider would be best served by moving on.

It’s tough though–overall there’s a lot of pressure in the H/J world for horses to be overly quiet and robotic. Trainers are expected to provide horses that are perfectly well behaved and that can compensate for timidity, indecisiveness and rider error. Clients are also often unreasonably intolerant of imperfect horses. The result is that trainers feel pressured to medicate (drug) or LTD. We frequently discuss on this board the importance of teaching riders the skills to ride more complex horses instead of trainers drugging or LTD. So I simply want to make the point that many decent–even good–horses can be a little more complex or difficult to ride. A trainer is not automatically a bad trainer for attempting to teach their students to manage more complex horses.

Perhaps this horse is a bad horse–they certainly are out there. But I’m reluctant to pass judgement without having seen it myself. I have many times seen client/amateurs unfairly blame horses for acting like horses or for reacting reasonably to a bad ride. Sometimes even perfectly good horses have just had too many uneducated rides and the wheels get a little loose. I’ve also seen horses give a little spook and a crow hop and the rider later relates it as the horse giving a wild spook and a buck. I’m not saying that is the case here–just pointing out that there can be a difference in perception when you are riding vs. watching.

Ultimately, it’s a balance finding a trainer that can mount students safely and well but also teach them to really ride, not just be passengers on robotic horses. At the same time, riders need to build confidence through building strength and skill, not by being overfaced by horses that are dangerous or above their skill level.

[OneTwoMany]

@BeeHoney

Perhaps this horse is a bad horse–they certainly are out there. But I’m reluctant to pass judgement without having seen it myself. I have many times seen client/amateurs unfairly blame horses for acting like horses or for reacting reasonably to a bad ride. Sometimes even perfectly good horses have just had too many uneducated rides and the wheels get a little loose. I’ve also seen horses give a little spook and a crow hop and the rider later relates it as the horse giving a wild spook and a buck. I’m not saying that is the case here–just pointing out that there can be a difference in perception when you are riding vs. watching.

I have to agree with this.

[xxWarmbloodHunterxx]

I’ve been heavily involved in a riding school at various levels: Taking lessons at one, leasing a horse from one, and then leasing MY horse that I purchased to one. Here’s what I’ve seen:

They will always do what’s in their best interest, money-wise. Always. It’s a business.

The horses they get are mainly donations or cast-offs. They work with what they’ve got and will not put in extra time or resources to retrain something that does a good job/doesn’t spook 90% of the time. They’ll ride them down, but won’t spend 90 days re-training. Too much money lost.

Switching horses on you when you become comfortable with one and only want to ride that one is really their only way of getting you to lease. Leasing a horse means more money for them. It’s also the business model. If other people are paying to ride the same horse every time, you should be too.

They’re not set up to help people search for a horse. They’re set up to schedule lessons and keep people coming back to those lessons.

If I were you, I would find a more serious training program for yourself. Take a few lessons with different trainers so they can assess your ability level, then have THEM help you look for a horse. I would definitely not continue to ride a horse that has a history of spooking and bucking that isn’t in training for its issues.

[Artax]

So… I found a couple of solid alternatives (although school horses are school horses and that’s ok - I just want to learn while I search for my horse!)
However, the school wants me to come back for a meeting. I have asked to have a phone call but they insist on meeting in person. This is a VERY small community - everyone knows everyone else! - and I don’t want to burn bridges or insult anyone.

[Synthesis]

@Artax

So… I found a couple of solid alternatives (although school horses are school horses and that’s ok - I just want to learn while I search for my horse!)
However, the school wants me to come back for a meeting. I have asked to have a phone call but they insist on meeting in person. This is a VERY small community - everyone knows everyone else! - and I don’t want to burn bridges or insult anyone.

They can ask, but nothing says you have to do so. Face to face is so they can pressure you to remain in the program, its much more effective than over the phone. Ask any sales person.

They’ve shown you who they are and their priorities. Move on.

[findeight]

NO. There’s no reason for a face to face meeting and not having one isn’t going to burn any bridges. What the heck do they need to even talk to you for? You have no contracts in place, you don’t even own or lease anything right now. All they probably want to do is apply pressure for you to stay, why would you want to even go sit through that “oh we’ve been so good to you, why are you unhappy” spiel? Or they will try to sell you a horse and think you will fall in love at first sight.

You have met all your obligations to them and owe them nothing. They really aren’t in any position to insist you do anything and nobody else will think you do anything wrong if you don’t go to a meeting with anybody you no longer do business with. Be brave, don’t go. You aren’t doing anything wrong by moving on.

I find it odd they want any kind of meeting at all with a non owning, non leasing former client who has been looking elsewhere for instruction. That’s a new one for me…and nuts.

[Tigoli]

Being a self professed avoider of conflict… I’d avoid that meeting at all costs if I were you! You’ll end up leaving the meeting feeling terrible, or end up cornered into something you don’t want. Best to leave it where it is, you’ve politely terminated the lease and given notice on lessons. End of story.

Hopefully the new place will be a good fit and you find a trainer that will do their very best to help you on your shopping adventure. My trainer was invaluable to my search for a horse. I felt like I was bothering her all the time, but she happily looked at video for me and steered me towards what she felt was the best fit for me. We didn’t quite agree on the type of horse I should be looking for in the beginning… but it turned out she was absolutely right.

[00Seven]

@Artax

So… I found a couple of solid alternatives (although school horses are school horses and that’s ok - I just want to learn while I search for my horse!)
However, the school wants me to come back for a meeting. I have asked to have a phone call but they insist on meeting in person. This is a VERY small community - everyone knows everyone else! - and I don’t want to burn bridges or insult anyone.

Based on my experience leaving barns as a lesson student and a boarder, there is really no situation where this is normal, and you have nothing to gain from attending. I would tell them “I’m sorry, I don’t wish to do that.” and move on.

[seriously1]

@Artax

So… I found a couple of solid alternatives (although school horses are school horses and that’s ok - I just want to learn while I search for my horse!)
However, the school wants me to come back for a meeting. I have asked to have a phone call but they insist on meeting in person. This is a VERY small community - everyone knows everyone else! - and I don’t want to burn bridges or insult anyone.

Um…no thanks?
I would just say 'oh, thanks so much for the opportunities. I have learned so much. I am looking forward to going to my new place which is…closer to home…more adults than kids…my friend rides there…only one coach…or whatever fence sitting response you can come up with. ’ In fact, if you have one more lesson or have to go for another reason, drop off a thank you card or just send an email or text if you can’t.

[Pennywell_Bay]

If you take the meeting, please oh please take me with you

seriously- nothing else to say. You aren’t taking the horse. Period.

[ladyj79]

I once left a program. It was a program I only ended up in after my better trainer returned to the East Coast and this barn asked me to join them. I was a junior rider at the time, did not board my horse there, and I was also asked back with my mom for an “in person meeting”. It was a terrible mistake. It was extremely insulting. I still resent the barn owner to this day, like 25 years later.

I went on to continued success as a junior and an interesting at least professional career.

Man I still hate that lady.

maybe your meeting won’t be all about how awful you are.

[eclipse]

The barn I’m at has a large, successful school horse program. We’ve never requested or forced a face to face meeting for school horse riders. We just ask that you let us know you’ll no longer be riding, so that we can open your space to someone on the wait list! And, we put our school horse lesson charges through at the end of the month, this way if someone leaves they’re charged for what they took!

[BeeHoney]

@Artax

So… I found a couple of solid alternatives (although school horses are school horses and that’s ok - I just want to learn while I search for my horse!)
However, the school wants me to come back for a meeting. I have asked to have a phone call but they insist on meeting in person. This is a VERY small community - everyone knows everyone else! - and I don’t want to burn bridges or insult anyone.

What?

I would say that it is definitely not the norm for a barn to call a leaving lesson/lease rider in for a “meeting.”
I would simply say that your schedule is too busy (or you’ve had the flu or whatever) and you can’t meet but that if there are any “loose ends” that need to be wrapped up you they should just give you a call. Certainly double-check that you have paid everything you owe and that you have returned any tack/ equipment that you may have been using with the lease horse, and fulfilled any other contractual obligations, etc.

Barns are often fearful of the gossip mill, so whenever you part ways on good terms, I think it is helpful to have an “official story” or polite excuse for leaving that is inoffensive to the barn being left. You might be “looking for something closer to home,” or whatever. Then, say thank you and list some specifics–I’m sure this barn had some good points. I would be very careful not to criticize the lease horse–that’s their issue to deal with. Some people want to be honest, but as a departing customer it is usually more important to leave on a good note. Trainers often are very invested in their clients, and I think that it is reasonable to recognize and say thank you for that.

[findeight]

Honestly, I wouldn’t return their call or e mail asking for a meeting. Why fret over how to word a reply or what to say at an “exit interview” meeting., just ignore it and move on. Just don’t bad mouth them around town and give some general excuse why you left to anybody who asks, closer, better available ride time etc. other then that it’s really nobody’s business.

Think I’ve left more barns then most over the decades in boarding situations, be it cordial, by mutual agreement, been kicked out, had to do midnite move once but never skipped on bills, always paid in full. But never, ever been asked for a meeting on leaving, even as an owner. That’s overstepping their boundaries and quite intrusive. Let it go.

[xxWarmbloodHunterxx]

Did you end up going to the meeting? Did you find a new trainer? I hope it’s worked out for you.

[WildLittleWren]

I hope it all works out for you and I would definitely not respond or go to a meeting FEIW