Leasing green ponies - question for serious pony peeps

[Justice]

A couple of years ago I purchased a 2 YO fancy pony prospect. He comes from a well-respected breeder, won a ton on the line as a yearling (HOY in his zone), etc. We bought the pony with the intention of keeping him through pony finals but after finding out that my jumper mare was 2 years older than I thought, we decided we needed the space for another horse (I have 2 20 YOs in my 4-stall barn and one is pregnant). So, pony went to my trainers (top A circuit program) and learned to be a kid’s pony. We just sent him to his first horse show where he jumped around with a kid, offered up changes and won the hack in good A circuit company. We thought he was a small but he is going to be a medium (grew 2 inches since going into full work). To make a long story short, the pony is probably the best investment we will have ever made, and we don’t want to sell him until after he goes to pony finals in the greens, but we don’t have kids that show. I do show on the A circuit so fully understand the financial implications of showing this pony for the next two years.

Can you please tell me about leasing green children’s ponies? I understand it’s done, but am looking for guidance on agreements. Are there kids that want to stay in the children’s that long and then move straight into the greens? I can see the benefit on both sides - pony continues his training and gets shown without me footing the bill (plus for me), kid gets world class pony on a free lease (plus for kid). However, I am worried about the potential downside (pony gets used as a lesson horse, family free leases because of financial difficulty and can’t afford to show or keep pony in program and I end up having to take away a child’s pony (God forbid). Or, kid wins everywhere with the pony and after pony finals pony gets leased/sold for big money and kid is ponyless (I understand that this is ideal for me, but it feels sad). Does this kind of arrangement ever end well? TIA!

[Daventry]

My fear with leasing green ponies is always the chance that the rider isn’t competent enough to work with the pony and pony gets into bad habits such as stopping, shying, etc. Once a pony gets a stop in them and the other trainers and riders know it, the value on the pony plummets.

A lot will depend on how green the pony is and the skill level of the rider. What division did he show in? Personally, if he is ready for the greens now, it might be worth it to get him qualified for Pony Finals and sell him before hand, as it is going to take a lot of $$$ and campaigning to get him ready to step in the ring at Pony Finals. It is not for the faint of heart, as the ring can be spooky and the kids very nervous!

[Jsalem]

I agree with the above. If this pony is an investment pony for you, you need to be very selective about who is putting the miles on him. EVERYONE wants to lease a pony for Pony Finals. I’ve found out the hard way that having a green kid up there isn’t the best thing for your investment. With today’s internet, it’s very easy to check the pony’s record.

The best thing I ever did was choose a talented catch rider for a large pony that I had. I could have made a little bit of money leasing her for Pony Finals, but I chose to have the catch rider do her. She finished 3rd overall and I sold her for a ton.

[Marcella]

My trainer had a gorgeous large green pony that was #3 in the nation years ago (she piloted by a teenage boy who is a very famous jumper rider now). Pony was leased out for $$$ to do regular large and the leasor ended up putting a dirty stop on the pony. Pony came back and no longer could be a hunter. She ended up going into dressage training and was eventually sold for a very small amount of money to a kid to do dressage on. My trainer lost big - not just on the loss of sale money, but the expense of having to put the pony into dressage training so she could have some sort of job to be sold.

[findeight]

Last thing you want on an investment grade Pony prospect is a kid that lacks quality show miles and quality coaching in a quality barn. It’s not a “learning opportunity”. Unless they buy it then they can do whatever they want.

IIWY, I’d aim at Children’s Pony and not start the clock ticking on the Green status. Get the miles on him in CP, move to Green in show year 2017 or get him sold this fall out of the CPs and let the buyer do it. Those can lease/sell higher then you’d think if they are ready to go and pin well in the Greens. Mediums are tough to sell with the age restriction after the Green year but lease more easily as an interim step for growing kids.

Best bet is going to be working thru one of your better area trainers for a quality rider. Build a nice reputation for the Pony starting now and let it be known you are looking for a rider, possibly a lease but be careful where it goes. Most barns do have those quality kids looking for a short term project of some sort, have to ask those trainers. Be flexible and see what you can turn up.

Even if it’s a nice Pony and did well at its first show, 5 months is not much time to prepare it for PF with 4 months to get it qualified unless you send it out to live on the circuit and show every week, which I’m sure OP is not interested in doing or doing to the Pony. Sounds like she’s thinking Green year in 2017 anyway.

[Justice]

Thank you guys! I’m actually aiming for him to start the greens in 2018. He’s coming 4 and growing, so he’ll do another few shows this spring and spend the summer with me at Traverse. He’s such a good egg and has been so happy about everything we’ve asked him to do, I don’t want to fry his brain. And, his babiness showed at the horse show… He was tired enough that he only did the children’s for one day and then napped all day Sunday thanks for the great advice!

[LovesHorses]

I’d wait. You said he has grown 2 inches over as a small. Is he 13 hands now? That can be a very touch size to sell. Wait to market him until he is older and larger since the permanent cards aren’t until age 8 now. Coming 4 is very, very young to be out showing much. I wouldn’t be leasing out anything at that age.

[LovesHorses]

Ok just went to your FB page. Is it the Monarch pony?! I bought Rosecroft Silk Scarf in the same sale. Not sure if she is related by pedigree or not. Turned out to be THE nicest/easiest/quietest pony. She is down at Thermal this week with her new owner. I just sold her in the Fall.

[MtnDrmz]

I would definitely go for finding a catch rider over a lease. If you show frequently, I’m sure your trainer would be able to find a competent and qualified kid to show him around. I would be very weary of any lease that isn’t under your supervision. Ponies are too smart for their own good, and those bad habits can come on so quick. If he is a good egg and fancy, I would really do everything you can to keep it that way, i.e. keep him under your current program, and just find someone to put in the rounds at shows.

[Justice]

It is!!! And here’s irony for you, we actually were planning to buy Silk Scarf but Drew recommended the 2 yo for our program since we didn’t mind starting him. She was such a beautiful pony! I just want to assure everyone that I am certainly not running my sweet little pony into the ground, he has been with one of the top programs in the country to learn the “kid ropes” and my trainer would never lease him out to any one she didn’t know. I just didn’t know if it ever really worked out for everyone involved and I’m hearing a resounding no I am blessed to have top notch riders for my little guy, it’s just that taking him on the road for months at a time is obviously really expensive. In terms of his size, it was a shocker, that’s for sure. He was a hair under 12.2 when I dropped him off and both parents were 12.2. We didn’t find out how much he’d grown until he went to the show He is not going to be a top of the line medium, but that’s a actually the reason I don’t want to sell now, I’ll never have to worry about a permanent card and he’s already doing the medium step and cantering over the little children’s pony jumps.

[LovesHorses]

Sounds like you got a very good egg! I would buy another Rosecroft pony in a minute. The Taylor’s were great to deal with. I actually ended up getting another one from them a year later.

[Justice]

They are absolutely fantastic, and their ponies are all so nice! I have convinced my youngest to show him in the walk trot based on all this, so that’s something!

[mfglickman]

[QUOTE=Justice;8558788]
They are absolutely fantastic, and their ponies are all so nice! I have convinced my youngest to show him in the walk trot based on all this, so that’s something![/QUOTE]

Maybe he will do walk trot and short/mini stirrup with your youngest then move on to the CP and medium greens. Never a bad thing for people to see a great brain who will take their kid from walk trot through the division.

[chunky_munky]

You won’t be able to get another Rosecroft pony because that was Gary Baker’s prefix.

[Daventry]

We also had a Rosecroft pony for many years that we loved dearly. Gary made some great pony over the years. Although he passed away a few years ago, the bloodlines he used for his Rosecroft ponies are still available. He tended to breed to Richard Taylor’s stallions frequently.

[Capall]

So I looked at your facebook too… You have Jade?! She’s such a cool mare!

[Justice]

My little one likes to ride him, but she has never cantered on anything! You have to laugh… Neither of my kids ended up being riders. We do have Miss Jade! I have known her since she was a three year old and owned a couple of Jupiter babies from the same breeder. ChefJade knew she was for sale again and hooked us up with her owners about 5 years ago, and it has been pure privilege to own her. She is a demanding boss and runs the farm with an iron hoof.

[keepthelegend]

Is the pony showing in the Childrens pony this year or has she broken her green?

[keepthelegend]

I used to import a lot of ponies and had a training/sales barn before I had my own kids and stopped traveling so much. I honestly never bothered with Childrens pony. I went to as many local shows - I am lucky in that we split our time between Ocala and Lexington so had the horse park and HITS, etc - and did the ticketed warmups (I rode them or got a good kid) and schooled in the ring when possible after the show. I took them to schooling shows and also other people’s farms just for the ponies to see new jumps and places. Once I knew the pony was solid, I either sold eligible green or with a really good one I would break the green and even show in the regular division as well (really helps sale price) for Indoor points. I never leased them and just used the best kid I could - 8 good jumps wins a lot and the last thing you want is a kid missing a bunch and getting low ribbons and/or teaching the pony to stop.

[Lord_Helpus]

You have always had such lovely horses. I would send my Popeye K (Petey) to you in a minute if you had room. He has been out of work for 2 years because I do not ride anymore…