Unlimited access >

Lesson with New Trainer - Didn't tell my trainer

I don’t think you need your trainer’s permission to take other lessons/clinics.

Since she knows the trainer and accompanied you last time (maybe she feels she introduced you two?), she probably is worried about what not being a part of it this time means.

IMO no apology is warranted, but when you talk about it you should be open about it–yes, you are taking the lesson, yes, you are still a regular student of hers, you know that T respects BNT’s methods and feel it will be complementary, etc. You can use the conversation to set expectations–you enjoy taking regular lessons from her and plan to continue but do not plan on asking/informing each time you ride with someone else.

My situation is similar, in that I have an awesome regular trainer, who knows I take occasional dressage lessons elsewhere, and clinic when he goes south, but we don’t discuss on a lesson-by-lesson basis.

This is driving me crazy… what does BNT stand for? I know it refers to trainer, but what are the B and N?

big name trainer, I think. (I’ve guessed at that anyway, I’m not from America so have to ask what things mean occasionally too :))

Yes, BNT means big name trainer.

[QUOTE=Core6430;7053500]
I’m on here asking for opinions. Why I’m asking is because all of my friends are.non-horsey and they think its absurd to have to notify trainer of my actions. I wanted feedback from people immersed in the culture so I can make an informed decision on how best to handle it.

I really do appreciate all of the responses. They have been wonderful, and informative. Thank you (all of you).[/QUOTE]

LOL. You yourself have stated that you can’t afford to alienate your trainer.

So you booked a lesson with Trainer B, who knows Trainer A, and who knows you’re Trainer A’s student. What did you think would happen? Of course Trainer A found out.

So your choices are

  1. tell Trainer A to fruitbat off, you don’t owe her an explanation for your actions; or
  2. make nice in some way, since you want to keep Trainer A as your trainer.

I’m amazed this actually happens. My regular trainer is very open and loves coming to my clinics if she isn’t attending herself. She’ll even come video it for me so we can go back on it for reference for ourselves later on.

I wouldn’t offer her a sweet explanation, just flat out tell her you can’t afford for her to come along this time. I know it’s hard and things might be frosty for a bit but it’s better to set boundries than let her walk over you constantly.

I want my trainers to be emotionally invested in me and my horse having success. If they are, and really care, I would expect the trainer to want to know when I go ride in a clinic, if nothing else so we can discuss how it went afterward and what techniques did/didn’t work. If the trainer I ride with dislikes the methods of a trainer I want to ride with, I should respect that - or maybe it means that I’m not with the right trainer. My current trainer lacks respect from a BNT I find a lot of value in riding with due to that BNT’s lack of willingness to stand up for mistreatment in certain situations, but I would still consider riding with that clinician and would tell my trainer about it first, too - and he would probably go, watch, and pull out the valuable parts of the ride to use in the future.

Interestingly, since switching trainers I suddenly have less interest in riding in clinics simply because I am learning and progressing at a rate which is limited by the speed by which my horse and I can get strong/flexible (me) enough only.

[QUOTE=netg;7054473]

Interestingly, since switching trainers I suddenly have less interest in riding in clinics simply because I am learning and progressing at a rate which is limited by the speed by which my horse and I can get strong/flexible (me) enough only.[/QUOTE]
!! Well, that IS interesting.
That looks like the root cause of both seeking outside clinics and for a response from a regular trainer that is insecure/mad.
If you just go to a clinic for giggles the uncomfortable situation would not arise.

did not read past first few replies, but doesn’t anyone feel that the clinician had no right to tell your trainer??? I don’t care that they know each other, to me it is not very professional to let her know!

What, like Clinician-Rider priviledge or something? Funny. These 2 trainers know each other, and B clearly knows OP as A’s student. Could’ve been just a matter of “oh hey A, will I see you at clinic since OP’s one of the riders?”

I agree with Coanteen - I think there are 1,001 ways the clinician could have completely innocently mentioned it with no wrongdoing.

My trainer sets up clinics with the people with whom he likes to ride and learn and strongly encourages us to ride in them, watches as many of our rides as we can, asks questions as relevant and asks us if we learned anything which worked better that we should try incorporating. He’s schooling GP on the first horse he has trained up the levels and very interested in continuing to learn to be the best he can, and may work harder than I do at trying to help me improve - and I work flippin’ hard!

I don’t know that any other trainer would work with me on my gaited horse, so I don’t have the luxury of saying away, you…and I really appreciate my current trainer’s eye, guidance, and training. But I am very open about saying I’m taking a gaited clinic, or I picked this up from the CKD clinic (we both) audited, if I do something counter to what she told me to do in a lesson…we both audited a clinician we weren’t totally sure about and I found a few things to take with me, and I’m very plain about that. Look, it’s my money and my horse- if I get an idea or see something from a source other than her- let’s talk about it.

I think that’s the only way it works. Just STATE what you are doing. asking permission to go to the beach? that analogy won’t work, sorry. I don’t ask for permission to read Lessons with Lendon…but I bet she’d be dismayed if I was enrolled in a camp with Clinton Anderson- just be honest and that helps remove The Drama.

[QUOTE=Core6430;7053266]
This is what I don’t understand. Why do I NEED to inform anyone of what I am doing with my horse, my money, my time? I’m a very smart person . . .[/QUOTE]

You shouldn’t have to account for what you do to your trainer. But I also wonder why you are having this conservation on a BB and not with your trainer. Does your trainer not have access to the internet? Are you hoping this will get back to her indirectly rather than directly (exactly as happened with the lesson you scheduled). I DO understand your dilemma, but 99% of the time transparency is the best policy, IMO.

It strikes me that our relationship with our trainers is very intimate and important. It really is hard to explain to someone who isn’t part of our world. I recently scribed at a schooling show where the riders could opt to ride the test, be given pointers for improvement by the judge, and then ride the same test again (only the first test would count, of course). Many of the trainers hung around the judge’s booth and talked to the judge. I was surprised that some trainers talked over the judge, “interpreting” what the judge said or putting their own spin on it for the rider. And sometimes their spin was just wrong. Some trainers threw her riders under the bus with gratuitous comments that put all the blame on the rider’s supposed lack of ability rather than the training. And some felt the need to tout their own credentials. I felt embarrassed for everyone.

What I am getting at, in a circuitous way, is that sometimes a trainer isn’t worth it. You have to figure out if that’s your case. Is there a fixable problem in your relationship? I DO hope it works out for you, but saying you cannot afford to alienate your trainer puts you in a very weak position in what sounds like a rather dysfunctional relationship.

I would think it is like that with many coach relationships in sports. A tennis coach who works with a student gets pretty upset when student switches coaches. The coach gets proprietary about their students, it is more than just $

This puts students in bad positions a lot of times and leads to them leaving facilities/moving on more than many who runs such facilities suspect.

In the barn where I board, (run by a HJ trainer, ) we HAVE to take dressage lessons from one of two trainers affiliated with the barn. We can’t take lessons with outside trainers on the property. Right now I am riding on own as can’t afford rates of the one trainer and the second one I kind of reached limit with for various reasons. Now I if I could even afford rates with the second trainer, if she saw me riding with him it would be very uncomfortable and awkward for me there.

Hi,

I don’t think you did anything wrong but could have predicted your trainer would find out. I think your explanation should be based on the truth – maybe that you wanted to continue with this BNT, but felt you would be less distracted if you went solo. Any pushback, I would be a little more blunt about your last experience.

I have tried to find trainers that aren’t “personally vested” in my every move. Trainers vary a lot in how much they like to control the horse/rider, and I understand this, as their clients’ performance can affect their reputation. If you prefer a little more distance from your trainer, you may need to shop around.

I too am in an area that is lacking in good dressage trainers. We only have the small time dressage trainers around. However, the ones I have worked with have always been supportive of me taking lessons/going to clinics with others. Anytime a BNT comes to the area even some of the bigger eventing trainers around here are very supportive of their students going and learning all they can. I have never heard of one actually talking over the clinician. I have been to audit clinics of BNT’s and haven’t experienced this.

That being said, I like GraceLikeRain’s response. “I didn’t mention it because I can’t afford to take you with me this time”. If she shows up of her own accord, which she may very well do since she knows BNT and may want to catch up with her, I would let her know that the last time you had a very hard time hearing BNT because of her talking over them and could you refrain this time from doing that and then we can discuss/review video at my next lesson.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

First off, imo any trainer that goes to another trainer’s clinic and tries to teach and talk over the other trainer during the clinic has major problems with professionalism. I could not take such a person seriously as a professional trainer/teacher and would not work with them.

Otherwise …

[QUOTE=Core6430;7053266]
This is what I don’t understand. Why do I NEED to inform anyone of what I am doing with my horse, my money, my time? …[/QUOTE]

It is not that you “have to” inform anyone. It’s the general milieu of professional trainers that exists in American riding today. It’s just something to work around (not to stop you.) Here is why …

I agree with you - there are situations when I want to take a lesson elsewhere. It’s my business, my money, my horse, my ride. I’m paying everyone’s way, so I want to do things as I judge is best for me and my horse. I haven’t turned that decision over to anyone else, including my regular trainer.

But, I do recognize that pro trainers are trying to make a living and they have worked out this unwritten, informal ‘code,’ as it were, among themselves to keep thing from becoming chaos. There is a sort of assumption of ownership of clients, rightly or wrongly. I may not agree with this ‘ownership,’ but it’s the environment we’re living in. (Chaos does tend to result for someone, somewhere if any one trainer isn’t following the code.)

The unwritten “trainers’ code of ethics” includes “no poaching” on another trainer’s students. In your case, the “top trainer” did what any trainer who takes that code seriously would do when he/she called your regular trainer and informed them. (Good pros communicate among themselves much more than most of their clients realize, anyway.)

You will continue to run into this if you don’t take it into account and actively work around it. You can do what you like - it’s the “how” that you want to work out to make it easier for you.

This is how I handle it, and it may or may not work for you -

I start out by respectfully informing my regular trainer when we first start working together, nicely, “I just want to let you know that I do not consider myself as belonging to any one trainer.” I tell them that I do occasionally take a lesson or school with someone else, even if I usually work with “regular trainer.” If a trainer has a big problem with that they will tell me, and we can both make a decision if this is a training relationship we want to pursue. Nothing taken personally, no harm done.

If I take a lesson elsewhere, afterwards I will mention it casually to the trainer I lesson with the most, when other students are not within earshot. I don’t go into details about the lesson and don’t compare lessons between the trainers. I just say something like “I went over to X’s last week and took a lesson, we did some grids and it went well.” That’s all, then change the subject onto something about the regular trainer to reinforce their status as “regular.” Since I’m back on the regular trainer’s turf and obviously not dumping them, they don’t have much to complain about, especially since they agreed with this up front. If the regular trainer asks a follow-up question about the lesson then I’ll discuss more specifics. But I do try to be politic and brief. The less said, the less opportunity for something to be taken the wrong way.

It hasn’t happened, but if a regular trainer became upset about the other lesson, or if they tried to be challenging or confrontational about it, that would jeopardize my working relationship with them. We need to talk that out and make decisions at the get-go.

My independence is an important principal of my riding. I do my best to be fair and honest about it, especially with those I am working with on a paid basis. But, while I rely heavily on knowledgeable trainer advice and opinions, in the end I am making my own judgments and not deferring those to a trainer.

One trainer who has been a regular for me has said “ok, but” and expressed the concern that he doesn’t want his students un-learning what he teaches when they work with someone else. Fair point. As what he teaches works well for me, I do pay attention to what kind of lesson I am likely to get with someone else and avoid anything that is contradictory of what he teaches.

[QUOTE=netg;7052394]My thought is that from your post it sounds like you have much larger concerns with your trainer than a single lesson.

I could give advice on this specific situation, but I suspect you need to do some soul searching on the bigger picture and decide how you’re feeling, and whether or not it’s reparable. By your tone, I’d be saying leave - but that doesn’t necessarily reflect what you truly feel vs. a moment of frustration.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, although I did give my thoughts above.

My suggestion is to consider if the time has come for a talk with your trainer. Tell her that you want to take occasional lessons elsewhere, and that if that is not ok with her, let her say her piece. (It’s essential she feel like you listened to her.) Then you can decide if whatever she says is something you are willing to live with or not. If not, it’s time to find another trainer.

It seems to me that you are trainer-shopping and probably for good reason. I agree with those who have posted that you need to face up to that, think about why, and what you want to do going forward.

It could be that staying with the current trainer means you have to do some things her way to keep the peace, and you are less and less willing to do that.

Take care and good luck. :slight_smile:

OverandOnward - Great advice. Thank you!