Let's discuss CONTACT!

“drive the horse into the contact”

is faulty IMO.

first the horse must learn to go forward with whatever contact it takes to get it forward. Then over time you use school figures, leg yields, TOF to teach the horse how to connect itself. The horse must never feel trapped by a heavy hand, and the ride should use whatever following contact allows the horse to be forward.

Remember contact/connection etc is not about the rider pulling the horse onto the bit, but the horse, due to how its body is working, seeks the bit and uses it to help it swing in the back and close the circle of the aids.

This is not easy to do without a well seated rider with a giving hand.

This is a re-post of a perspective I provided for someone asking for a critique on the Hunter Jumper Forum.

RE: Developing independent, elastic, soft, effective contact.

I’d suggest beginning with this starting exercise…

Get a spare set of reins, and then find a volunteer to help you.

You and your volunteer each sit facing each other (no horses required), as you hold the buckle end of the reins as though you are riding, and your volunteer holds the bit ends of the reins and plays the part of the horse.

Your volunteer then moves the reins back and forth as though they are the horse, while you practice following the movement of the reins with your hands.

The key to this exercise is to instruct your volunteer to try to “fool you”. That is they should move both rhythmically then erratically, and suddenly, with lots of variation in the range of motion, and the speed with which they move the reins.

Your job in this exercise is to maintain five pounds of contact on those reins “NO MATTER WHAT YOUR VOLUNTEER DOES AT THEIR END”.

[B]NOTE: I think five pounds is a good starting point for this particular exercise because it may make it easier to follow what the “volunteer” does when learning how to create elasticity.

But if less contact (weight) works better for you, then by all means use less contact.

Also keep in mind that when actually riding your horse, you may only need to average around one to three pounds of contact (depending on the horse).
[/B]

What you’re going to find is that you’ll need to relearn how to use your arms and back to maintain that supple continuous contact.

How to develop contact…

(While remembering to breath and remaining relaxed)

Try this… sit in a chair (or the edge of a bed), relaxed and upright (no slumping, and hold your forearms horizontal yet let those elbows be as relaxed as possible without letting them fall down from the horizontal position.

Make two relaxed fists as though you are holding reins (fists 8 inches apart). Now slowly move your relaxed fists straight forwards as far as they will go (without straining) . Stay upright and balanced in your chair as you do this, and keep those forearms relaxed and horizontal (and breath!)!

You now have your two arms stretched out in front of you, hold them for a moment in that position and feel them relax.

Now reverse the movement, and bring your fists straight back as far as you can move them (forearms relaxed, horizontal, while you stay upright and balanced in you chair).

Notice that as you bring your hands close to your belly, you won’t be able to keep your relaxed fists 8 inches apart any longer… that’s ok… let your fists go wider as they get closer to your belly so you can get your fists to go as far back as you can, without straining (stay relaxed!)

You now have your two fist by your sides, your elbows are stretched out behind you, hold your arms in this position for a moment and feel them relax (forearms still horizontal!), once you feel relaxed as possible with your arms held back, then do this…

Try to move your arms back a little more, but NOT by rotating the shoulder joint any further back. You will find that you have to move your shoulders back to do this, and as you move your shoulders back, notice how you can feel the muscles between your shoulder blades working!

In doing this, you may likely have just identified the muscle groups in your back that will allow you to develop a soft and supple contact with your horse.

Repeat the entire motion of stretching your arms all the way forwards and back, fists drifting from 8 inches apart, to widening by your sides, in a smooth motion as your arms move with relaxation, and the forearms horizontal.

Now pretend you are on a horse while sitting in your chair. Imaging your horse is stretching his bit far forwards, and then bringing his bit behind the vertical, and imagine keeping your forearms aligned in a straight line with the horses bit as you sit in your chair moving you fists all the way forwards and all the way back.

Notice how far the distance is that your hands can move from being all the way forwards, to being all the way back.

You have just discovered a riders working range of motion for maintaining contact with their horse. Note that throughout this chair exercise, your upper arms only swing forwards and back and are by your sides, and not ever held up and out like “little bird wings”.

With all of this is still fresh in you memory, find something you can grab hold of with your fingers (like the edge of a table (one that wont fall over!), and now create five pound of contact with whatever it is you are holding onto. As you do this feel those muscles that you just became aware of between your shoulder blades. keep your arms relaxed and experiment with how it feels to use the muscles that rotate your shoulders, with the support of those muscles between your shoulder blades, to create that five pounds of contact.

But do it without feeling like your stiff, straining, or locking anywhere in your body. Notice how you can do this and keep your elbows completely relaxed. In fact you might now see how those relaxed forearms and elbows are completely free to flex to remain in straight alignment with your reins to your horse bit. That’s all because you are now creating your contact from your shoulders and your back.

Interesting, isen’t it!

You’ve just sampled how you can develop a contact from your core that allows your arms to remain independent.

The next step is to do the seated (you can do it standing too, but seated is better) exercise with your volunteer, with all of this in mind. Use this knowledge to try maintain that five pounds of contact no mater what your volunteer does with those reins (within reason of course).

Also, have your volunteer intermittently completely let go of the reins on occasion, as this is a good test to see if you are thinking elastically, allow your arms spring all of the way back to that “furthest back” arm position that you practiced in the chair exercise.

Keep in mind that all of the above are just “basic” learning exercises that can help riders learn how to develop elastic contact and independent hands. They are not hard fast rules, but rather a starting point to build upon as you progress in your abilities.

Many professional riders do all sorts of creative arm movements to apply aids that will fall outside the scope of what was discussed above.

If a rein breaks while riding, you may not want your arm to automatically go to that furthest back position, as you may need that hand to grab some mane!

See my point… When learning you start with a foundation, and then build all different kinds of techniques that allow you to become a more flexible rider, upon that foundation.

Hope you might find the above helpful.

Also, regarding your question about riding with shorter reins…

Yes, as you may have just discovered, your range of motion includes the ability to have arms stretched far forwards as needed, but that shouldn’t necessarily mean continuously.

Part of what you’ll experience as you redevelop your style of riding to include a more supple contact, is that your horse will also need to readjust to how he remembers you “did” ride him. Don’t expect it all to come together at once, it may, but it may also take some time for both you and your horse.

As I just mentioned above, there is no hard fast rules in riding, just foundations and starting points. You are allowed to adjust your rein length continuously as you ride when necessary.

In fact many professional riders continuously change their rein length throughout a ride. Methods to learn… how to properly “walk up” a rein with the fingers of one hand, and how to let reins slide through fingers as needed. How to use each hand to adjust the reins of the other hand as you ride… and of coarse there’s the quick emergency spread your hands far apart to slide hands up the reins to take up the slack as my horse begins to bolts technique. :eek:

Undoubtedly learning new riding skills may necessitate abandoning old habits so you can advance to the next level. This may feel awkward at first, and may take some time to get used to, and that’s all perfectly normal in the process of learning.

[QUOTE=merrygoround;6555665]
Horses like this can be very difficult because they are defensive. Why should they relax and give, they are only going to stabbed dropped or jerked again. So long as he is that program he will be difficult. Removed from the program, it will take time and patience for him to begin to trust. Shame to use a young horse that way. Much older horses tend, sometimes, maybe, to be more forgiving. Other-wise they can be unholy terrors! :lol:[/QUOTE]

The problem isn’t getting jerked when’s he’s asked for contact by the students, because most of the lesson riders they use on are intermediate/advanced beginners. He gets jerked when he tries to run off (he’s a bit hot) and the kids try to cling to the reins.
Mostly I am the one who works on contact with him and I would rather use a snaffle to teach him to relax than stick him with a double bridle and force him into contact. Of course for him relaxing means stick your nose in the air and “WEEE! I CAN FLY!”:smiley:

Niennor, can you get your horse to soften to the bit in hand? Start there first.

alterhorse, I agree with everything you said, except this: five pounds of pressure is way too much.

Do you mean on the lunge?
The trainer has given me some pointers to work on the lunge but I still lack some experience. do you think lunging him with vienna reins could help soften him to the bit?

[QUOTE=mbm;6554721]
young horses learn contact using progressive training… starting with them just wearing a snaffle bridle to lunging, then lunging in side reins loose, then slowly shortening them so the horse can reach to the contact then once the rider is on board you ride forward with a soft following hand… the horse will reach for the bit once he is actively engaging his hind legs under his body. Once this happens the rider needs to just accept the contact given - and work from there.

Turn on the forehand and leg yields are both really great tools to helping the horse understand how to connect itself etc.

Teaching a rider about contact is a different process and the most important thing is learning to have a soft following hand - a hand that does not pull or block.[/QUOTE]

See, I am not a fan of side reins used in the manner regarding “contact”. I use side reins as a means to keep a horse fairly “straight” but NOT to teach contact per se. They remain at a length that prevents the horse from swinging his neck and head to either side. Actually, the outside side rein is of more importance to me as I find that horses tend to travel looking in and bulging from the outside shoulder… I often find that most horses actually drop behind the pressure of side reins and are in a false frame avoiding the “contact” all together.

It is fairy impossible to get the horse to reach for contact without the use of your seat/legs and an half halts from the riders hand connecting the aides together.

[QUOTE=stryder;6556734]
alterhorse, I agree with everything you said, except this: five pounds of pressure is way too much.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the confusion.

Yes it can be for actual riding. :slight_smile:

Two or Three pounds is probably a more of appropriate “riding” average.

For the purposes of a student using this exercise to learn “how” to properly create an elastic contact from the appropriate muscle groups, the five pound figure seems to speed up the learning curve.

Part of the art of teaching is that sometimes we may need to exaggerate a certain aspect that is being taught to make it easier for the student to grasp the key concept.

Once an ability is understood, then it’s application can be diversified.

But if less weight in the hand is better for an individual learning from the exercise, then that’s the weight they should use.

[QUOTE=snoopy;6557084]
See, I am not a fan of side reins used in the manner regarding “contact”. I use side reins as a means to keep a horse fairly “straight” but NOT to teach contact per se. They remain at a length that prevents the horse from swinging his neck and head to either side. Actually, the outside side rein is of more importance to me as I find that horses tend to travel looking in and bulging from the outside shoulder… I often find that most horses actually drop behind the pressure of side reins and are in a false frame avoiding the “contact” all together.

It is fairy impossible to get the horse to reach for contact without the use of your seat/legs and an half halts from the riders hand connecting the aides together.[/QUOTE]

Using side reins (with no donuts or elastic) allows the horse to learn what correct connection feels like and what it does to their body… it is a lot easier for a horse to learn this without a rider…(unless the rider is extremely well seated)

if the horse is coming behind the vertical then the side reins are too short and/or attached in the wrong place.

If they are attached correctly and the horse lunged properly (with the lunger standing in one place, and the inside hind stepping well under) then the horse will learn how to reach for the bit and feel how the back swings and then how it all makes it easier for them.

Watching a horse figure this out is really cool :slight_smile:

of course it is possible to teach this concept in other ways… but this is one way that is pretty reliable…

[QUOTE=stryder;6556734]
alterhorse, I agree with everything you said, except this: five pounds of pressure is way too much.[/QUOTE]

I think five pounds is a good starting point for that particular exercise because it makes is easier to follow what the “volunteer” does when learning how to create elasticity.

But I agree that less contact is better, if one can be successful in the exercise using less contact (weight).

[QUOTE=snoopy;6557084]
See, I am not a fan of side reins used in the manner regarding “contact”. I use side reins as a means to keep a horse fairly “straight” but NOT to teach contact per se. They remain at a length that prevents the horse from swinging his neck and head to either side. Actually, the outside side rein is of more importance to me as I find that horses tend to travel looking in and bulging from the outside shoulder… I often find that most horses actually drop behind the pressure of side reins and are in a false frame avoiding the “contact” all together.

It is fairy impossible to get the horse to reach for contact without the use of your seat/legs and an half halts from the riders hand connecting the aides together.[/QUOTE]

Oh Dear! Whatever was Mr Podhajsky thinking. Using those side reins! :lol: :lol:

[QUOTE=merrygoround;6557683]
Oh Dear! Whatever was Mr Podhajsky thinking. Using those side reins! :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]

fwiw I agree with snoopy, I am not a fan of side reins nor found them to help teach a horse real contact, at least not the connection I am looking for. I find it much easier to teach under saddle. I like to be able to immediately release and let the horse walk on a loose rein.

But then again I am not really a big fan of lunging period. I do it enough to teach voice commands and how to lunge, then get on and ride.

[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6557830]
fwiw I agree with snoopy, I am not a fan of side reins nor found them to help teach a horse real contact, at least not the connection I am looking for. I find it much easier to teach under saddle. I like to be able to immediately release and let the horse walk on a loose rein.

But then again I am not really a big fan of lunging period. I do it enough to teach voice commands and how to lunge, then get on and ride.[/QUOTE]

:yes:

[QUOTE=merrygoround;6557683]
Oh Dear! Whatever was Mr Podhajsky thinking. Using those side reins! :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes::sleepy:

Nothing can replace good lessons in the saddle but nothing wrong with the side reins for what they are… Which is not a replacement :slight_smile:

If may give my not-very-experienced horsewoman opinion, I’m not a big fan of side reins. They keep the hose’s head fixed by don’t encourage one to seek contact. I prefer vienna reins, because they allow you to keep the horse straight but allow for some freedom of movement in the head and poll, when used as a training tool. Of course different horses will have different reactions to training tools.

I’m inclined to agree with NOMIOMI1 on this one. If you want to teach a horse to balance and seek contact you need to be in the saddle, you need to encourage the horse with your seat, leg and reins to reach for the contact. Of course that’s easier said than done. Because keeping an independent seat, having a quiet leg but, at the same time, make sure the horse has impulsion and keeping a steady contact with the outside rein, while encouraging the horse to soften and relax the jaw with the inside rein is no easy task.
Especially if you are seriously lacking coordination skills, like me.:o

Swamp Yankee – can I usee that as my sig line? Love it

"Initiate aid (stimulus).

Horse yields to pressure (response).

Rider ceases aid (reward).

Repeat until you die! "

thought I would toss out there that i agree that side-reins/lunging may not be a good idea unless you happen to be very good with both… since i am not the worlds best lunger, i dont tend to use them, however, my trainer does wonders with them and under his tutelage i am getting better and better at proper lunging etc.

done correctly side reins should not get the horse btv or behind the bit etc. the horse should seek the bit and connect and therefore bend and swing.

like all tools - the end result is more about the user than the tool :wink:

I am with you on that, mbm. But the thing with vienna reins is they’re highly adjustable so you can adjust so that the horse doesn’t end with a tendency to over bend and yet discourage him for lifting his nove above the bit. Mine happens to be a little stargazer, so behind the vertical doesn’t worry me much in his case but, like you, I am not a very good lunger, so unless i can do it supervised, I’dd rider use any kind of traning reins under saddle, with the trainer’s supervision. Sadly, i can only get a lesson a week atm, the rest of the time I’m on my own and i’d rather not use any training reins without being 100% sure of what I’m doing. Just pointing out that, i I have to use any training reins at all, i prefer vienna reins without a doubt.

Atm we’ve been alternating the use of vienna reins with extra reins at all, to see if we can encourage the little bugger to flex his poll because I’m still not a good enough rider to keep him from evading contact for an entire ride.

bigger bit - like soft, rubber one.