Let's talk about Lani

[MonterStables]

Normally I start scouting horses to pick for the Derby late in their two year old season but this year after last year’s hooplah I (very mistakenly) waited until two hours before the race to pick a horse. So I pulled up the post position list and he caught my eye being in post 8. Mostly because, as a general rule, I favor horses in the middle rather than the outer posts. From there, I looked up more things about him (pedigree, previous race record, workout video etc.) and on paper this horse had all the hallmarks of a winner: He prefers to stay at the back and stalk the pack, short burst of speed for the end. His way of moving is languid and loose and very fluid and he REALLY makes it look effortless!

However everyone said the horse was a big question mark because of his attitude, which I didnt take too seriously due to the fact that people question marked Pharoah all last year. But I was surely disappointed come race time- He didn’t want to run at all and didn’t. :no:

[Laurierace]

That horse is in desperate need of brain surgery in my opinion.

[Howlin_Wolf]

Any links to any paddock & gate behavior?

[danceronice]

He was fine saddling (he was kept out of the paddock and away.) The analysis I tend to use for betting, Super Screener, had him as a X (their lowest rating any horse gets) and a toss, based on a weak UAE Derby with a poor pace and weak field and on his having poor works coming into the Derby. (They also note they are one more bad performance away from one of their screener criteria being “discount any horse exiting the UAE Derby.” This may have been it.)

[MonterStables]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8654230]
That horse is in desperate need of brain surgery in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Maybe a gelding is in order? Someone on another Racing board brought that up

[MonterStables]

[QUOTE=danceronice;8654280]
He was fine saddling (he was kept out of the paddock and away.) The analysis I tend to use for betting, Super Screener, had him as a X (their lowest rating any horse gets) and a toss, based on a weak UAE Derby with a poor pace and weak field and on his having poor works coming into the Derby. (They also note they are one more bad performance away from one of their screener criteria being “discount any horse exiting the UAE Derby.” This may have been it.)[/QUOTE]

:eek:

[danceronice]

They just don’t show up. I didn’t use Lani on any tickets and he was with a clump of horses on their rating where they didn’t advise even putting him in the bottom of a superfecta or a SH5. And they were right, no chance. Don’t know if gelding would help or he just can’t travel with company as good as these horses.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=MonterStables;8654288]
Maybe a gelding is in order? Someone on another Racing board brought that up[/QUOTE]
Brain surgery is a euphemism for gelding as in allow them to think with their actual brain so yes; I think gelding is worth a shot. I doubt if that will solve all his problems but it’s worth a try.

[Shammy_Davis]

Lani’s dame is definitely a producer. Tail female back to Vagrancy.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/heavenly+romance2

I didn’t see any acting out by him at the derby. They took some time with him. There have been a great many good race horses that required patient handling. One that comes to mind is Secretariat.

I noted in Lani’s pedigree that Stymie is present. He doesn’t make that many appearances.

[gumtree]

He’s a multiple stakes winner by Tapit. The chances of him being gelded is slim to none.

He was never a consideration in my handicapping.

Would have been nuts not to have included the winner in any serious ticket. He would have to fall down and or the jockey off not to have finished in the first 3. IMO he came into the race a better horse than American P. Exaggeratpr (not Gunner Runner) ran the race I expected him to. Flying at the end. Good chance he would have won had he been closer to the pace.

A quote from Lani’s trainer;

[I]“I was very much impressed by the atmosphere yesterday,” Matsunaga said. “I talked with Mr. (Bob) Baffert and he said to enjoy the best race in the world.”

And would he like to test “the best race in the world” again?

“Yes, but with a different type horse,” Matsunaga said. “I would want one that is tough, very capable and possibly a front-runner … and easier to handle.”[/I]

[Vivace1]

I was actually really disappointed that the telecast didn’t cover him more. Foreign horse, quirky behavior, best jock in Japan? The story seemed to write itself.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8654564]
He’s a multiple stakes winner by Tapit. The chances of him being gelded is slim to none.

He was never a consideration in my handicapping.

Would have been nuts not to have included the winner in any serious ticket. He would have to fall down and or the jockey off not to have finished in the first 3. IMO he came into the race a better horse than American P. Gunner Runner ran the race I expected him to. Flying at the end. Good chance he would have won had he been closer to the pace.

A quote from Lani’s jock;

[I]“I was very much impressed by the atmosphere yesterday,” Matsunaga said. “I talked with Mr. (Bob) Baffert and he said to enjoy the best race in the world.”

And would he like to test “the best race in the world” again?

“Yes, but with a different type horse,” Matsunaga said. “I would want one that is tough, very capable and possibly a front-runner … and easier to handle.”[/I][/QUOTE]

Matsunaga is the trainer.

The jockey was Yutaka Take, who while he may be the most famous and successful jockey Japan has ever produced, he has ridden some absolute stinkers when he has ventured outside of Japan, most notably on Deep Impact in the Arc in 2006.

Lani is a nice horse, but like many foreign entries in the KY Derby he just isn’t quite up to the standard of US dirt runners. You don’t really know how good they are until they get stateside and run against the best dirt 3yos in the world.
He finished just about where almost every other UAE Derby runner before finished, midpack, somewhere between 7-11 seems to be where they end up. They don’t disgrace themselves, but just appear to be shade off the best.
Now, whether that’s down to training, shipping or just their true level, hard to know for sure, but I suspect the latter.

I’m also surprised that more of the connections of those foreign shippers don’t book the services of an American jockey.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;8654701]
Matsunaga is the trainer.

The jockey was Yutaka Take, who while he may be the most famous and successful jockey Japan has ever produced, he has ridden some absolute stinkers when he has ventured outside of Japan, most notably on Deep Impact in the Arc in 2006.

Lani is a nice horse, but like many foreign entries in the KY Derby he just isn’t quite up to the standard of US dirt runners. You don’t really know how good they are until they get stateside and run against the best dirt 3yos in the world.
He finished just about where almost every other UAE Derby runner before finished, midpack, somewhere between 7-11 seems to be where they end up. They don’t disgrace themselves, but just appear to be shade off the best.
Now, whether that’s down to training, shipping or just their true level, hard to know for sure, but I suspect the latter.

I’m also surprised that more of the connections of those foreign shippers don’t book the services of an American jockey.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for pointing that out, brain fart. Corrected

[CVPeg]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;8654701]

I’m also surprised that more of the connections of those foreign shippers don’t book the services of an American jockey.[/QUOTE]

Thought the same thing.

[Laurierace]

Looks like he is headed to the Preakness, I will check him out and see what I think.

[snaffle1987]

I like the horse and think he handled the derby atmosphere extremely well despite his history. They kept him away from the horses and walking just outside the tunnel for the safety of all. He seemed calm and collected and also handled warming up on his own very well. I think the 20 horse field just took its toll on him, got caught up in too much traffic,

His works have looked less than impressive but I think he’s a good colt, very well bred. I think part of his downfall is that he’s Japanese owned and trained and the horse isn’t quite trained up to the par of the American dirt horses. I’d like to see an American jockey on him for the Preakness and I’d like to see how his works appear coming out of the Derby.

[Flying_Fox]

[QUOTE=MonterStables;8654113]
Normally I start scouting horses to pick for the Derby late in their two year old season but this year after last year’s hooplah I (very mistakenly) waited until two hours before the race to pick a horse. So I pulled up the post position list and he caught my eye being in post 8. Mostly because, as a general rule, I favor horses in the middle rather than the outer posts. From there, I looked up more things about him (pedigree, previous race record, workout video etc.) and on paper this horse had all the hallmarks of a winner: He prefers to stay at the back and stalk the pack, short burst of speed for the end. His way of moving is languid and loose and very fluid and he REALLY makes it look effortless!

However everyone said the horse was a big question mark because of his attitude, which I didnt take too seriously due to the fact that people question marked Pharoah all last year. But I was surely disappointed come race time- He didn’t want to run at all and didn’t. :no:[/QUOTE]

More close in time are Nearco (1957), Nasrullah (1940) and Ribot (1952).
Nearco was always referred to as of high-mettle. In fact, he was strong-willed to the point of
mulishness, a quirk of temperament he passed to many of offspring, including Nasrullah. A high-class racehorse, widely regarded as the best horse in England to ten furlongs, he failed to win a Classic, and
often as not, it appeared that lack of resolution rather than lack of ability that brought about his defeats. This undesirable psyche he bequeathed. Grey Sovereign was a victim, a strong-willed and irresolute character, handed down to hint by his brilliant forebears. On his better days he was a handful for the very best - but on others, he would sulk, and refuse to race, standing stock still when the tapes
released for racing.

[Shammy_Davis]

Native Dancer was quite a handful also. The list of talented horses that were temperamental is a great deal longer than one might think. Many years ago I read a study that concluded that there was a fine line to be drawn by conditioners and owners when it comes to cutting a well pedigreed colt with patient optimism and handling being the primary factor for success. GT is right. No one in their right mind would cut this colt. I also agree how wonderful it is to stay invested in the Caro line. This is a very interesting and fun pedigree to look at. Wasn’t there a very talented stallion tail male to Caro standing in CA some years back? SIberian …? I recall the owner was crazy and probably should have been gelded. I recall the CA courts took an interest him.

[The_Centaurian]

I never pick foreign horses or California horses in the Derby because of the travel; I just think it’s a disadvantage compared to the East Coast horses. Sometimes I am proven wrong, but not very often.

It looked to me like both the jockey and the horse carried more weight than the Americans; looked more like a hurdles horse and jockey IMHO.

Lani ran beautifully, he’s certainly classy. I would like to see him run on turf.

[Pronzini]

[QUOTE=The Centaurian;8656532]
I never pick foreign horses or California horses in the Derby because of the travel; I just think it’s a disadvantage compared to the East Coast horses. Sometimes I am proven wrong, but not very often.

.[/QUOTE]

Dubai I understand but I would rethink your anti California stance–in the last three years 6 of the 9 top placings in the Derby were California based. It’s becoming a thing.