Let's Talk Bullying

I agree that diagnosing what bullying is happening in our sport is necessary to begin to move toward correcting the problem. I think that was part of the intent of this thread (and some of the discussions whether pro->amateur relationships often cross that line, which seemed like just the first scratch at that surface).

One of the issues that has made bullying so difficult to identify and control in schools is that technology decentralizes a lot of interactions that were formerly restricted to the schoolyard (and a limited number of other physical spaces). Kids are using a variety of social networking platforms to connect to one another, and have more power to collectively move their interactions to spaces with little adult supervision than they did in an era where almost all social contact was face-to-face (or between two parties over land line phones). If your mom friends you on Facebook you might move on to Instagram, and so on and so forth, which probably opens the door for kids to move into virtual social spaces with a more Lord of the Flies atmosphere. And to occupy that space for a while doing whatever cruel things kids do, before adults catch on and try to intervene. I don’t know how schools can really get on top of a decentralized social system in which teenagers are often leading the migrations from one online space to the next and leaving adults in the dust.

Equestrianism pretty much requires your butt to be in the saddle, which means that real-life contact is still necessary for the practice of the sport. IRL coach-student contact. IRL congregation of riders at equestrian facilities for various activities. In these situations the ground hasn’t shifted much from the old days – instructors and parents and barn managers and pony club leaders and other responsible adults can intervene when they see unhealthy interactions. Maybe they don’t always accomplish this perfectly, but the ground hasn’t shifted substantially at the barn as far as I can tell. But digital photos and videos and the many online platforms where they can be posted, are, I think, opening up the door for equestrian life to leak into that nebulous world you describe where bullying behavior can thrive.

I think that the equestrian community might face the same issue as schools in tackling the contemporary online bullying problem. As long as there is a big enough set of people who enjoy seeing others hurt, there will be corners of the 'net where they can congregate to say truly terrible things and publish personal information and such with impunity. We can see this in general internet forums (Reddit springs to mind, with its Red Pill and InCel and Creepshots and MensRights sub-forums – truly disgusting corners of the web in which doxing and revenge porn and slut-shaming and detailed rape fantasies have been tolerated). I don’t think any of the bullying in equestrian sports stoops to those levels, luckily. But I suspect there probably already exist some places online where equestrians who truly desire to hurt each other can go to be cruel. Many of these are probably pockets of larger social networks (sets of Facebook friends and such) rather than organized communities. I don’t know that our sport generally can do much about that except to discourage it and to rally around people who may be victimized by it.

As pessimistic as I am about online bullying, I don’t think the answer is battening down the hatches on every equestrian forum such that anything that could possibly be perceived as ‘mean’ is outlawed or even flagged. This might only start an exodus to forums with laxer rules, both by the posters with nefarious intent and by earnest posters who value freedom of expression. Keeping people engaged in a community that has clear lines for social behavior and doesn’t tolerate truly unacceptable behavior seems preferable to exiling those with the real potential to do harm to places where there is less community pressure to abide by a standard of conduct. And I personally think CotH does an admirable job in maintaining engagement while refusing to tolerate unacceptable behavior. It has a large community of equestrians who communally control a vast amount of knowledge and experience, which usually generates good discussion and provides a lot of support to its members. We are all here because it is a useful and sometimes entertaining forum. It allows relatively free conversation. But it has clear and regularly enforced rules about publishing personal information, making derisive personal commentary, and other behaviors that are clearly unacceptable. And the mods do an excellent job in enforcing those rules. I don’t actually post on other equestrian forums, so I don’t know how they stack up, but I personally think this one has struck a rather good compromise in terms of promoting good behavior by posters.

Anyway, I’m quite pessimistic about the ability of equestrian organizations to do anything about real bullying within the sport. And I agree wholeheartedly with what @Scribbler says about also needing a more nuanced vocabulary for other negative online behaviors. But I fear, based on how this thread has unfolded, that agreement on that front may be equally elusive.

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No. When one posts a lot, one has a voice that readers may come to recognize. That’s not research at all, it is simple paying attention.

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Touché, Manni.

And I think that misunderstandings in countless threads would be avoided if you would make that same decision.

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I interpret this as a request to not post anymore… Don’t you think this could make me feel humiliated or belittled??? Do you really think its a good solution to simple shut up somebody with a different opinion… I think this is a pretty personal post :frowning:

And there is a difference because you were complaining about the missing ignore button, so I was trying to give you an inspiration, but you were simply trying to be mean because I don’t recall that I ever wanted an Ignore Button…

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Are you really trying to be a victim, or dense, or what? I truly don’t understand…

To me @X_Halt_Salute was merely pointing out that you could equally employ the virtual ‘ignore’ function, and avoid a lot of what has gone on on this thread…I apologize if I read it wrong…

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:confused::confused::confused:

All I said is that you should take your own advice. It is no more personal than your comment to me. I said nothing about your right to post anywhere and really don’t understand how you made the logical leap to ‘a request to not post anymore’!

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There is a whole bunch of people who are talking all the time about me trying to be a victim…

The funny thing is that I don’t feel like a victim and so I do interpret this also as a subtle way of bullying…

Because why should you talk about it all the time??
I don’t feel like a victim, still you try to force it on me that I do feel like it…

And also I pointed out that I never missed the ignore button… some of you did… I was simply trying to help

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ok for the 3rd time… I never missed the ignore button, you did… So I was trying to give advice…

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And honestly this thread is really extemly interesting… I think there was some great information!!! Some of the posts were amazing…

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You lots of great points in your whole post, X-halt-salute.

These two paragraphs I picked to quote because I think they needed repeating.

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I have never seen any actual bullying here, so I don’t get what this is about??? Other forums, yes, and I have been victim of it- let me tell you, it was AWFUL. I changed a lot about myself from that experience, I never share personal details.

Let’s revisit the actual definitions, it’s very clear that no one ever has wished manni harm, said bad things about her character, or is trying to upset her in any way.

Quotes:

Cyberbullying or cyberharassment is a form of bullying or harassment using electronic forms of contact. Bullying or harassment can be identified by repeated behavior and an intent to harm.

Cyberbullying includes sending, posting, or sharing negative, harmful, false, or mean content about someone else. It can include sharing personal or private information about someone else causing embarrassment or humiliation. Some cyberbullying crosses the line into unlawful or criminal behavior.

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before I employ my virtual ignore button, you may want to reflect on that statement…

Virtual ignore deployed

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I agree 100% with this definition.

And lets make clear first, I was adressed in this post, I do not need an ignore button and I think I have the right to answer to something adressed to me…

And another thing… I do not feel like a victim, so please stop writing this (adressed to the people who did it)

So are you really sure that this…

.it’s very clear that no one ever has wished manni harm, said bad things about her character, or is trying to upset her in any way
is really true???

How do you know whether I am upset or not?? A couple of days ago somebody threatened me on this board and there were countless negative posts about me. So if you bring this quote and definition , I would start to consider me as a victim of bullying…
And again, I do not consider myself as needy to be always in the center of attention, I am answering to a post which mentions specifically me…

And I really like this thread, maybe it will help some people to understand that what they are doing is maybe bullying although they think its not…

And again to make it clear again!!! I am not even talking about me there are a lot of other examples for persons being bullied on this board… I am only one of few persons who stand up against it… And Thank you to everybody else who is standing up against it!!!

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Show me the posts where they threatened you please. If that is the case, have you talked to the mods and reported it?

Negitive posts and hurt feelings are so subjective. Again, no one wishes you harm here that I personally know of.

Also, consider how you project yourself- why are you having so many issues? Is there any relationship to the neg posts? how can you improve your clarity and tone to avoid this?

I have never seen actual bullying and I’ve been here (?) 13 yrs, on this forum (dressage), but then again I’m not in every thread.

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No, I need an ignore button, guess who was on it? :slight_smile:

I think I need to get my personal ignore button activated again.

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I interpret this as a request to not post anymore… Don’t you think this could make me feel humiliated or belittled??? Do you really think its a good solution to simple shut up somebody with a different opinion… I think this is a pretty personal post :frowning:

manni - sadly, you just gave everyone in the thread a perfect example of your tendency to overreact, find fault, point fingers - and yes, seem to want to be the victim.

x-halt-salute suggested that if you took your own advice about using the “ignore button” - then many misunderstandings could have been avoided in the past - and could be avoided in the future. It was not bullying - no matter how much you seem to want it to be so. Was your post telling others to use the pretend ignore button bullying? No. Nor was x-halt-salute’s. This post I am typing is not bullying, either. We all need to try and use our personal “ignore button” at times and yet when it is suggested to you as opposed to you mentioning it - you take umbrage.

No one said you should not post anymore - or even hinted at it. You just “decided” that was what was meant.

Back to NP’s daughter claims - I was on the FSH board when his eldest daughter came into the thread cursing a blue streak and telling everyone what vile people we were - with very colorful language. Someone had commented on her public FB post about how effing people were effing lying about NP etc. etc. Some replied to her - I may have as well - but that was it. If anyone continued on her FB page or had a conversation with her - it was not evil stalking and bullying as NP has claimed - even to the point of suggesting it was a younger/minor daughter. Not the case.

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Victim Mentality Characteristics
It’s a Learned Behavior
The victim mentality is a learned and acquired behavior, which means that it does not have at its base in any biological or genetic workings. It’s something that the person has brought on due to constant churning and spinning of negative thoughts.

The Victim Believes He Has Been Wronged
In the true sense of the word, a victim is described as someone who has been harmed even though he was not responsible for the incident and could not prevent the same, and therefore, deserves empathy. People who have a victim mentality are always under the impression that they have been treated unfairly, and have been wronged against without any fault of theirs, even though there is clear evidence that proves that they were responsible (completely or partially) for what happened.

The Victim Believes He Has No Control Over Life
These people believe that they have no control over the outcome of anything, and they therefore shed responsibility too. When faced with any negativity or setbacks in life, they refuse to do something about it and move on; instead, they focus on the negative, play it over and over again in their heads, and thrive on the drama.

It Leads to ‘Believing in the Worst’
People who adopt a victim mentality are a classic example of pessimists, they look at every situation as a potential wet blanket. They also feel that the world is out to get them―even though there might be evidence pointing otherwise. They are the first ones to point out the possible negative outcomes of any new situation, and therefore, not only do they only refuse to try something new themselves, but they also discourage others with their constant negativity.

It is Rampant with Negative Emotions
The victim mentality leads to people constantly being guided by negative emotions like anger, fear, and sadness. There is always a suspicion about the intentions of people.

The Victim Expects Sympathy
One of the main characteristics of this behavior is that the ‘victim’ expects sympathy for all the bad things that he has gone through. He wants the attention and constant validation from others that he has suffered a lot even though he did not deserve it, or how brave he is for having gone through so much and is still managing to go on in life.
The Victim Plays the Blame Game
At no point will the victim take responsibility for what he’s going through. Instead, he will shift the blame onto others and hold them responsible for all his ‘misfortunes’ and troubles.
The Victim is Stuck in a Self-pitying Mode
One of the most prominent signs displayed by a person with a victim mentality is playing the self-pitying role well. He believes that life has dealt him an unfair hand and is constantly seen lamenting with sentences like ‘Why me’. He also believes that others are luckier, happier, with better lives than him, and that he is suffering more than anyone else.

The Victim Spins Tales of Woe
In order to continue garnering sympathy and compassion, the victim begins to spin tales of woe. These may either be exaggerated versions of what really happened, or they might be downright lies. He needs to do this because he has gotten used to living in the shadow of sympathy, so he has to constantly spin better tales to elicit the same response from people. He also knows that in order to garner this sympathy, there needs to be a shock factor in his tales, which he works towards developing.

The Victim is Defensive
The victim develops a negative outlook, wherein he believes that everyone is out to get him and bring him down, such that whenever someone says something about him, no matter how neutral it is, he immediately attaches a negative connotation to it and goes on the defensive.

The Victim Puts Himself Down
The victim develops a tendency of putting himself down. Due to this self-abasing quality, he/she is low on confidence and self-esteem. He is also seen to commonly use terms like I can’t (negating one’s ability) and ‘I must’ (having no choice).

The Victim Refuses to Analyze and Improve
When people around him notice his self-victimization tendencies and initiate ways to tell him about his self-harming ways, he refuses to analyze his actions and thereby fails to improve as well. Instead, not only does he go on the defensive and dismiss all the suggestions, he also develops a negative opinion about any person who suggests change.

The Victim has Passive-aggressive Tendencies
These people are extremely passive-aggressive in their dealings with others. Being low in confidence and having conditioned their minds to believe in things like ‘I can’t’ and ‘I have no choice’, they cannot express their anger in proper ways. As a result, they tend to sulk, withdraw, lie, make excuses, and purposely spoil a task.

The Victim Sets Himself Up for Failure
They are so self-defeating in their actions and words, it is almost as if these people are masochistic by nature, in that they thrive to hurt themselves. They will purposely get into situations that will lead to harm, and even though there are better choices to be made, it seems like they are putting themselves up for failure.

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So is this supposed to prove that I want to see myself as a victim??

and I looked up the expression „don’t you dare" in the dictionary just to make sure. And yes it is described as an expression which is supposed to threaten somebody not to do it… so I was right I was threatened…

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I agree your post is not bullying. But your post is supposed to prove that there is no bullying and sadly that is wrong

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No, it is not wrong, manni. I addressed a specific post that you felt was bullying and said as much. It wasn’t bullying any more than your suggestion that others use that ignore button was…

You seem to see bullying in places where it is not happening… how would you view some of your posts then - if it was not your name on them but someone else’s? A lot of what you have claimed is bullying towards you - is the same way you have posted towards others.

Just something to consider.

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