Let's talk PONY stallions!

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=exvet;7395930]
[I]BTW, it has been well confirmed by historians that the predecessor to the Akhal -Teke (the Turcoman horse) most definitely contributed to the creation of the English TB (when you see “Turk”, it was most likely a Turcoman stallion), therefore the creation of just about every light riding horse breed in the world…there is even fairly convincing evidence they help create the ARAB breed, especially the Muniqui (can’t spell it) strain.

They haven’t been around this long for nothing…their blood was highly valued then…it should still be valued. The (good) ones still have alot to contribute (IMHO). [/I]

Yes, I have heard of such evidence and am not surprised. The stallion that I referred to was quite handy and did well in eventing. I knew and went to school with one of his riders. She found him to be very straight forward (more like an ammy’s mount) and rather cat-like, able to get out of tight spots the few times that they happened.

I’m quite the Harry fan so I would be very interested in what you produce with the crossing to him, whichever mare you choose to put to him. I also think the WB x Arab x Welsh cross could definitely be a smashing hit. Then I should fully disclose that I use to show Arabs and obviously am smitten with the Welsh breed too. Though I agree that the market for sport pony is smaller and I use to be one in that market (I produce my own now) I am intrigued by the possibilities you pose and agree that the emphasis on the outcome should be the individual. I just think it will be a bit harder to please the hunter scene than the sport scene with what you produce…then again papers are lost all the time on ponies :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

I’m betting the Teke stallion you talking about is related to my Tekes…do you remember his name? Breeder? If the breeder was Phil Case in VA, BINGO!! That’s who my stock go back to. Kadima’s granddam, Karma was bred by Phil Case and sired by his top stallion Senetir.

Karma was never shown, but in her first (and only) endurance ride, a 75 miler (and you can look it up on the AERC site), she finished in the Top 10.

And yes, Matthew MacKay-Smith (among others) wrote a whole book about the creation of the TB and mentioned the contribution of the Turcoman stallions.

Good blood is good blood…the “breed” is a made up thing by people. I personally think a good “mutt” can be better than many (so-called) PBs, but you need to know your stock.

Currently, I’m thinking I will use Harry on the Teke mare, because the mare I had originally chosen for him is quite the beef-cake…and then use a small Welsh for the Arab/TB mare…plus then I can hope for a single dilute from either cross, and that never hurts marketing :winkgrin:

I doubt I will get a true “pony” from the first cross, but I’m betting it will be a catty, eventing machine in the 14.3 - 15.2 range…I’m hoping there are enough older eventers that really don’t want a 16+ hand horse.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Snowfox;7395949]
Is Blue Rain still being bred (is he still alive)? He’s an amazing pony stallion. I have one of his babies and I am breeding to one of his sons this spring.[/QUOTE]

Where did he stand? His breeder?

[exvet]

Yes the Cases were the owners/breeders. Senetir was the stallion. Also Roo was the pony :winkgrin:

Well I for one will be looking forward to pictures once the results are on the ground. While I don’t event, I think there will always be some older adults who want athletic and smaller for their sport horse. As they say, there are no guarantees. Who knows you may end up with something taller and EVEN more marketable. Personally I really prefer those in the middle range of 14.3 - 15.2 or so; but, I’m sure that doesn’t surprise anyone.

[Snowfox]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7396035]
Where did he stand? His breeder?[/QUOTE]
He did stand at Ashmont farm in Maryland, but that was quite a few years ago.

[VirginiaBred]

Blue Rain hasn’t been breeding mares for a few years now. And since we don’t really have any idea what the OP has in mind for the resulting cross (dressage, eventing, trail riding, whatever)…it would be hard to suggest a stallion to begin with.

[Daventry]

I don’t think Blue Rain is breeding any more, I could be wrong. I think he’s 26 years old this year. I know his stud fee was $2,000 US with no LFG and his shipped semen wasn’t great, but that’s likely due to his age. As far as I know, he is still at Springdale.

[overhorsed]

Use a Caspian on your Teke mare. Stay in the Central Asian desert region…

[Snowfox]

I actually think that a cross with Daventry’s Sporting Chance could be a nice baby. I have a Sporting Chance mare out of a TB. She’s a nice pony. My mare (the mom) was around 15.2+ and the Baby (she’ll be 12 this year lol) is 13.2.

[svvdressage]

[QUOTE=Sportpony;7395570]
This is a small (12.3 hands) RPSI-approved stallion I have on my ‘list’ … proven record for producing top foals. http://www.solomonfarm.com/stallions/smoketree.html[/QUOTE]

I second this…I have seen him in person and he knocked my sox off. STUNNING!!

[Daventry]

Unfortunately, Sporty is no longer available. We do have frozen semen, but at this time, it is for our own personal use.

[Texarkana]

Does Elly Schobel still have Fox Cry Nicodemus?

This is an old ad with old contact info, but as of last year I believe he was still at The Homestedt.

He’s an amazing little guy!!!

[Snowfox]

[QUOTE=Daventry;7396520]
Unfortunately, Sporty is no longer available. We do have frozen semen, but at this time, it is for our own personal use.[/QUOTE]
Ahh it seems like all the great pony sires are aging out without anypony kind of filling their place. I have a Sporting Chance, a Blue Rain, a Pengwyn, and a Pendock Masterpiece I will cherish them all the more!

[volvo_240]

What about that Teke stallion Super Star? When I have read about him on this board it really makes me covet the breed. It seems like a bit of a shame to dilute such cool rare blood lines. You should get an eventing superstar and possibly in pony size. He himself appears to have a shorter back and strong loin connection.

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=Snowfox;7396950]
Ahh it seems like all the great pony sires are aging out without anypony kind of filling their place. [/QUOTE]

I have to disagree. Blue Who, by Blue Rain, who stands at Sugarbrook Farm is starting to fill the place of Blue Rain, in my opinion. He finished #14 on the USEF Leading Pony Hunter Sire List last year, and he’s only 15 years old. For most pony stallions, it takes their entire life before they often hit the top of that leader board!

We’re hoping our junior stallion, Daventry’s Power Play will also eventually be able to fill some of those big shoes!

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=overhorsed;7396360]
Use a Caspian on your Teke mare. Stay in the Central Asian desert region…:)[/QUOTE]

The thought actually crossed my mind, but personally there aren’t that many good ones out there. And talk about a marketing nightmare…there are no Caspians out there that I am aware of who have any kind of real performance record.

As for Super Star…if I wanted to breed the Teke to a horse, I would go WB; there are far more superior dressage horses than SS. He’s NOT a PB Teke (which is why he doesn’t really LOOK like a Teke), and I’m using a Teke/TB mare, so I wouldn’t even end up with a PB Teke. Trust me, I know my Tekes, and he’s not a particularly good representative of the breed. Nice that he made it to PSG, (so he hasn’t done any eventing and only jumping in a chute) but plenty of WBs did that as well.

My mare is already “diluted”…she’s 25% TB. And I think SS has either WB or TB in there as well, although probably in small quantities.

There ARE PB Tekes here in America, but unfortunately many are structurally incorrect (feet/legs), so unless I can SEE them in person, I will not use them.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Snowfox;7396415]
I actually think that a cross with Daventry’s Sporting Chance could be a nice baby. I have a Sporting Chance mare out of a TB. She’s a nice pony. My mare (the mom) was around 15.2+ and the Baby (she’ll be 12 this year lol) is 13.2.[/QUOTE]

Beat you to it:D. I emailed Daventry several days ago asking about him. VERY impressive! Alas, she told me the same thing she told the rest of COTH…and she’s keeping all his frozen for farm use. Lovely boy, though.

And I also love Power Play…even though he’s grey.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;7396605]
Does Elly Schobel still have Fox Cry Nicodemus?

This is an old ad with old contact info, but as of last year I believe he was still at The Homestedt.

He’s an amazing little guy!!![/QUOTE]

Nice boy…ad says LC only… but maybe worth pursuing. Blue roan is a cool color.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;7396182]
Blue Rain hasn’t been breeding mares for a few years now. And since we don’t really have any idea what the OP has in mind for the resulting cross (dressage, eventing, trail riding, whatever)…it would be hard to suggest a stallion to begin with.[/QUOTE]

I personally don’t know any one who breeds for trail riding…what a comment.

Anyone ever bred for a hunter and got a dressage horse? NAH, THAT never happened. Anyone ever bred for a dressage horse and got a hunter? Oh, heavens, THAT has never occurred. Anyone ever bred for an eventer and got a jumper?

Seriously, now.

I’m guessing if you breed two highly athletic individuals…the mare with a pedigree of several generations of performance horses (mostly eventers & jumpers), and the stallion who is not only athletic himself, but also a proven, CONSISTENT producer of athletes, the chances are excellent you will get a horse/pony who can do SOMETHING very well.

The mare I mentioned who won the Mare Championship (judged by a dressage judge), was bred dressage, dressage, dressage. Double bred Rubinstein. Very little jumping blood.

Guess what…the hunter people are all over her, plus the ammie dressage folks…I even had an inquiry from someone wanting a 3’6" jumper. And she’s not a real cheap buy.

Even though I bred for a dressage horse, obviously (many) others see potential for her to do other things well enough for at least some level of sport.

Sorry…I can’t find fault with producing an animal like that. Oh…she DOES do trails as well

[Kyzteke]

@Daventry;7397122

I have to disagree. Blue Who, by Blue Rain, who stands at Sugarbrook Farm is starting to fill the place of Blue Rain, in my opinion. He finished #14 on the USEF Leading Pony Hunter Sire List last year, and he’s only 15 years old. For most pony stallions, it takes their entire life before they often hit the top of that leader board!

Checked both Blue Rain & Blue Pacific out…lovely boys! Funny, both are only 1/2 Welsh. I don’t know enough about pony bloodline to identify the dam lines…but apparently both of these stunning stallions are “mutts.”

Tsk, tsk.

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7397398]
Checked both Blue Rain & Blue Pacific out…lovely boys! Funny, both are only 1/2 Welsh. I don’t know enough about pony bloodline to identify the dam lines…but apparently both of these stunning stallions are “mutts.”

Tsk, tsk.:D[/QUOTE]

Please DON’T call them mutts. It’s extremely insulting. You also called Belafonte d’Avalon a mutt as well. It makes it hard to breed to a stallion when you’re rude about them online.

You yourself said you don’t know enough about pony bloodlines to comment, so why then go and call them mutts? For what it’s worth, Blue Who is actually 7/8th Welsh 1/8 TB. His dam is a PUREBRED Welsh Pony and the top side is the immortal Blue Rain, but the breeder just didn’t bother to get the colt registered with the WPCSA. Sugarbrook Blue Pacific is 11/16 Welsh, with a tiny bit of TB and Arabian blood thrown in. He is extremely well bred, with a pedigree of the highly successful pony hunter lines of Gayfields Vida Blue, Cymraeg Rain Beau and Hidden Creek Rain Fox.

Sorry, but if someone went on a public forum and called my stallion a mutt, I sure as heck wouldn’t be very happy about it! :no: No more advice from me on this one!