Live Stream of Wellington Young Rider Clinic January 4-7

[BroncoMo]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

An instructor can be tough and blunt without being rude and personally insulting

^^^ This.

I’ve been seeing things circulating on FB, got curious, and ended up coming here. Full disclosure: I googled and could not find the video. I think I read it got taken down? Anyways, here are some sporadic thoughts, but I feel are applicable to the discussion.

Personally, I am in instructor in military aviation; an inherently dangerous job where not hearing, not understanding, or just ignoring instruction can lead to catastrophic incident and loss of life. So for those who talk about being instructed “back in the day” by “military captains”, I’m no captain, but they don’t do much teaching anyways

I’ve been in my line of work for 16 years and teaching for 10. I’ve seen the gamut of instructors; ones who give no input, ones who belittle and berate, ones who say the same thing over and over without reconstructing the instruction until the student gets it. I’ve also seen the ones who are tough and have high expectations but do not stoop to insulting, and also have the ability to understand the various ways of learning, and cater their instruction to the student. Two things can be true at once; one can be tough and critical while remaining respectful and effective. That’s a huge thing: effective teaching.

I’ve never ridden in one of these high end clinics, actually not ridden in any clinic at all. So I don’t have any suggestion on what to do with a student that is either not keeping up, or outright not listening to instruction. Nor do I know if this was the case (see above about I have not been able to find the video).

We must be very careful to not place people on such a high pedestal that they reach “god status”, in any and all walks of life. We can look up to people and admire their skills and abilities. But allowing people to reach a status that renders them untouchable is dangerous. See George Morris…

Speaking of George Morris, also unnecessary belittling and berating. People think it’s funny or builds thick skin or whatever. It’s ineffective. If someone can tune it out and find something useful in those tactics, good for you. If you thrive in being told you ride like crap or are intellectually inferior, good for you. But as a whole, that method of instruction is not effective and builds barriers to learning. Was there useful content in his instruction? Absolutely. Was it delivered in a way that could have been more effective and cut out things that were unconstructive? Also yes. Two things can be true at once…

I don’t personally know if Katie’s teaching style as a whole mirrors GM, but if she was throwing insults and if she was implying the riders partake in abuse, then that’s not ok. Frustration can be channeled differently to sternly get the point across, by using different words. I’m not saying her frustration wasn’t valid. It can be relayed differently and effectively though.

I usually take the stance of “get off my lawn” and do think today’s younger generation has gotten soft in a multitude of ways. But that doesn’t mean that my way of teaching, and my expectations of professional instructors, is any way coddling. It’s just that berating, belittling, and outright disrespect is not an effective way to get the best out of a student.

Sorry for the pinball thoughts. You may now return to regularly scheduled, and organized, reading.

[TXnGA]

@BroncoMo

@Impractical_Horsewoman

An instructor can be tough and blunt without being rude and personally insulting

^^^ This.

I’ve been seeing things circulating on FB, got curious, and ended up coming here. Full disclosure: I googled and could not find the video. I think I read it got taken down? Anyways, here are some sporadic thoughts, but I feel are applicable to the discussion.

Personally, I am in instructor in military aviation; an inherently dangerous job where not hearing, not understanding, or just ignoring instruction can lead to catastrophic incident and loss of life. So for those who talk about being instructed “back in the day” by “military captains”, I’m no captain, but they don’t do much teaching anyways

I’ve been in my line of work for 16 years and teaching for 10. I’ve seen the gamut of instructors; ones who give no input, ones who belittle and berate, ones who say the same thing over and over without reconstructing the instruction until the student gets it. I’ve also seen the ones who are tough and have high expectations but do not stoop to insulting, and also have the ability to understand the various ways of learning, and cater their instruction to the student. Two things can be true at once; one can be tough and critical while remaining respectful and effective. That’s a huge thing: effective teaching.

I’ve never ridden in one of these high end clinics, actually not ridden in any clinic at all. So I don’t have any suggestion on what to do with a student that is either not keeping up, or outright not listening to instruction. Nor do I know if this was the case (see above about I have not been able to find the video).

We must be very careful to not place people on such a high pedestal that they reach “god status”, in any and all walks of life. We can look up to people and admire their skills and abilities. But allowing people to reach a status that renders them untouchable is dangerous. See George Morris…

Speaking of George Morris, also unnecessary belittling and berating. People think it’s funny or builds thick skin or whatever. It’s ineffective. If someone can tune it out and find something useful in those tactics, good for you. If you thrive in being told you ride like crap or are intellectually inferior, good for you. But as a whole, that method of instruction is not effective and builds barriers to learning. Was there useful content in his instruction? Absolutely. Was it delivered in a way that could have been more effective and cut out things that were unconstructive? Also yes. Two things can be true at once…

I don’t personally know if Katie’s teaching style as a whole mirrors GM, but if she was throwing insults and if she was implying the riders partake in abuse, then that’s not ok. Frustration can be channeled differently to sternly get the point across, by using different words. I’m not saying her frustration wasn’t valid. It can be relayed differently and effectively though.

I usually take the stance of “get off my lawn” and do think today’s younger generation has gotten soft in a multitude of ways. But that doesn’t mean that my way of teaching, and my expectations of professional instructors, is any way coddling. It’s just that berating, belittling, and outright disrespect is not an effective way to get the best out of a student.

Sorry for the pinball thoughts. You may now return to regularly scheduled, and organized, reading.

And again, y’all see taking my words literally instead of using your critical thinking skills.

In no way have I indicated that being a God puts you above criticism. Yes I called her a God, but because of what she has done, both as a rider and trainer. But in this specific case,I don’t think KMP did nothing wrong.

[Happyhack]

I’d agree that many people have got soft and are too easily offended.
But Katie’s somewhat abrasive attitude towards her human students on this occasion is only part of the discussion.
Its is what she suggested they do to the horses - as seen in the disappearing video clip - that is causing consternation to many.
Btw although it has become known as the “Voorn video,” Albert Voorn did not collate, edit or originate it. The “give them a good licking” clip was being very widely circulated on whatsapp by riders in Europe and elsewhere before Albert decided to stick it on his personal FB page.

[wanderlust]

Thank you! I’m usually on here stupidly arguing semantics with people like poor @MHM but I do think this clinic/video/brouhaha highlight some broader cultural issues and is an important topic.

[anon56064099]

Right. If recent history carries forward, scenarios like these do influence and trickle down to impact all of us. Had I not seen similar scenarios and restrictions develop so rapidly and pervasively throughout the corporate world, I wouldn’t take the topic so seriously!

[BroncoMo]

I meant it more in a general sense. Hence why I did not quote you. I know there was a discussion upthread about your comments, which have been talked about at length. There ARE people out there who put fill-in-the-blank BNT in to “god status” and think they can do no wrong.

[Ghazzu]

@anon56064099

A bit oversimplified Ghazzu - the pension glory days were the 20’s through the 40’s - roughly 60%+ of the working population had them, but these were ‘Great Generation’ folks, not Boomers. Only about 6% of late-wave Boomers have pensions and were subject to multiple financial crashes, inflationary periods, etc. Agree with your point though about the lack of true upward mobility in corporate.

Well, yes, oversimplified because the topic is well outside my field of expertise, as it is for the subject matter for this Bb, but the corporate expectation that workers should sacrifice their personal time to the company without a reciprocal action by said company is pretty common. Loyalty should be a 2 way street.

[BroncoMo]

@Happyhack

But Katie’s somewhat abrasive attitude towards her human students on this occasion is only part of the discussion.
Its is what she suggested they do to the horses

Oh yes, but my comments were mostly from the standpoint of an instructor regarding teaching methods. The issue of abuse certainly deserves conversation. I just haven’t heard it with my own ears to draw an opinion…

@Happyhack

Albert decided to stick it on his personal FB page.

I’ll go look but is this particular video available to the public?

[anon56064099]

Totally agree w/r/t being a two-way street.

[OntheFnce]

The video is available to view on Albert Voorn’s FB.

[HipNo34]

Kind of like, how for the young folks, “obsessed” (“I am OBSESSED with LeMieux saddle pads”) is not exactly a literal thing.

Holy crap. I may’ve solved it all with an analogy.

[Happyhack]

try here, you may have to scroll down a bit
Facebook

[HipNo34]

Does anyone know where it started?

I have a hard time believing that the video in its edited form originated with USEF. If they did compile those particular clips, it was an employee with access and either an ax to grind or apocalyptically poor judgement (hyperbole).

Someone replied to me on FB that USEF/USEF Network originally posted it to social media and since it removed it. There was a post removed but I recall it being a continuous clip from the section where KP talks about adjusting stirrups. The content in what we’re calling the Voorn video contains clips from different points in the session.

If individuals did edit and pass around the video, there may be a TOS issue at play. I don’t know what “international rules” are in a situation like this. ETA: if I read them right, you’re not supposed to edit or modify the videos (which can be purchased for download).

Related and of side interest, about a decade ago, a gun group in Virginia unsuccessfully sued Katie Couric, alleging unflattering edits in a documentary ( VA Citizens Defense League v Couric). This was some time ago, involving an organization, not an individual, and the wildfire aspects of social media weren’t at play.

[OntheFnce]

It doesn’t matter where in the video KP made these comments or in what context. She made them. Period. Stop defending unprofessional behavior. It’s a bad look.

[Limerick]

Her letter supporting GM tells me WAY more than I wanted to know about KMP. I am in disbelief that someone could be so insensitive and ignorant about sexual abuse of teenagers.

[MHM]

@HipNo34

Does anyone know where it started?

I wondered the same thing.

[MHM]

@wanderlust

I’m usually on here stupidly arguing semantics with people like poor @MHM

I beg your pardon?

[wanderlust]

I was trying to make a joke at my expense about how I tend to argue about dumb things on here, like earlier in this thread with you.

[Arlomine]

Of course, teaching some of these kids is frustrating. She is supposed to do better at managing her frustration. Yes, the clip showed her at her worst. Her worst is unacceptable. Her best appears to be minimal true instruction with a lot of “good girl “stuff.
Yes, I watched the whole thing. I still think she is a mediocre instructor when she is at her best, crude and cruel at her worst. Certainly not a good example of effective teaching.

She was my idol in high school, and she is of course, and effective rider,. That doesn’t make her a good teacher. I get that she is teaching the way she was taught herself. That doesn’t make it right. Coddling does not equate asking for nothing from the students either. There is a way to be firm without being personally insulting and making shit remarks about the horses.

[wanderlust]

@Arlomine

Yes, I watched the whole thing. I still think she is a mediocre instructor when she is at her best, crude and cruel at her worst. Certainly not a good example of effective teaching.

I didn’t necessarily see cruel, but otherwise completely agree with your assessment. McLain and Kent have been far more thoughtful and explanatory in previous years. The theory is as important as the application for future professionals, and there was not much of the why and how, just the do.