Live Stream of Wellington Young Rider Clinic January 4-7

[anon56064099]

This is actually the ONLY thing I remember about GM except the ‘jump clinic’ articles in PH. Terrible.

[bamboopole]

Katie used to purposely have every jump down in the ring. Training I guess. Amazing rider.
Only once did I see a judge call her into the booth (JDA).
That was probably abuse, but a tough call for an official. Horse was unhurt.

[anon56064099]

I’ve had a unusual period of time away from work as well as really bad weather here so more computer time than typical and am hopping off the thread. Forgive the formalities as I do this via texting as well, but I just wanted to thank everyone for a topical and interesting discussion. And for answering the questions from a dressage rider with patience and good faith. I wish all of us better days ahead - it’s very clear that we all feel so passionately about the horses and the sport we love.

[Aussie_2020]

I totally agree with your post, but I’m a bit surprised that so many riders haven’t had to look at their trainer during the lesson. We would have to jump a line while looking at the trainer and call out which hand she was holding up. And depending on how close she was to the line it might be fingers. I think that really helped me to learn the “soft eyes” concept.

(I am, and have always been a low level rider, I knew exactly when the fence went over 2’6" so no world beater here)

[MHM]

@Knights_Mom

Not the same as telling a child that if a horse doesn’t obey use violence and flip it over.

I feel the need to point out once again that she did not tell the child to do that.

If you choose to interpret her words that way, that’s up to you.

But those are not the words that actually came out of her mouth.

I interpreted her words as hyperbole for teaching purposes, as did many others.

[endlessclimb]

Man am I glad that I am not the instructor of many of the people here. Lord help you if you use language to help make a point, that is then taken literally.

[Knights_Mom]

@anon56064099

While I agree with you - not a SINGLE person on this thread has shown a shred of evidence (even anecdotal) that the clinician in question flips horses, abuses them and runs them into walls. The evidence would suggest she is not diplomatic and that it was a poor choice to live-stream the clinic and a really really stupid and insensitive decision from USET.

When questioned about the facts, everyone responds with yes, we know all these bad practices exists and she comes from that world. It strikes me that someone as disliked as this woman presumably is would have folks coming out of the woodwork with anecdotal claims of actual abuse she’s no doubt inflicted over the last several decades on horse and human alike.

It doesn’t make sense to me. My view is that we should defend everyone (even those we don’t like, don’t want to train with or don’t agree with) or if not defend, at the minimum, refrain from spreading untruths or rumors we have no evidence to substantiate. The Helgstrand issue I thought was treated reasonably well state-side by the dressage community. There was evidence captured (by photo and video), it was shared and there were consequences. It gives dressage people and their relevant orgs ‘somewhere to go’ from a comms standpoint when having these broader questions discussed societally.

It’s appropriate in my mind as a paying USET member to provide communication back to that org that this clinician was not a good choice and you were frustrated with her approach and style for all the reasons we’ve discussed. But accusing someone of persistent and dangerous horse and rider abuse while implying their words are enough to convict them of that terrible charge, is dangerous.

As an example, this weekend, I was helping a sweet mother with a very timid child on a very naughty little pony who, while adorable, had her number and would bolt and throw her and had broken her brother’s collar bone. I jokingly told the Mom while working with said naughty pony - ‘tell perfect pony that we’ll send him to the dog food factory if he won’t behave.’ We all had a laugh, gave the pony a carrot and called it a day. But by your logic, I just instructed what might be an impressionable person that if a horse doesn’t behave, you kill them.

The clinic was a bad look for USET, for the riders and for the clinician. It was a poor choice. But jumping to ‘she abuses horses, flips them, runs them into walls and teaches riders to do the same’ is a massive leap of logic and incredibly harmful to your fellow equestrians and those who have zero experience with the industry.

Harangue USET all you want for a poor decision and by all means if you see of or know of abuse - stop it and call it out, but let’s be cautious about accusations without proof.

I completely disagree with your point of view and that’s okay.

The point being that many people see it as I do so the damage is done. Others will see it that way too and it’s brou-ha-ha time all over the place from this incident. If it were as you say, no one would be saying anything. Yet the man who posted it, Albert Vroom, also felt otherwise. And Vroom is an internationally known equine professional so its not like he’s a basement dweller petting his calico cat under moms knitted quilt with orange Cheetos stains around his lips snd fingertips.

[Knights_Mom]

@anon56064099

I’m not super familiar as I’m not a h/j rider but I would assume there is quite a bit more to the GM school of horsemanship than polling a horse in the legs and intentionally breaking students arms and legs. Of course that’s terrible, abusive and should never be allowed.

I’m not a person that idolizes others, but many people do, only to be horrified by who their ‘heroes’ actually are and that (gasp) they’re imperfect people. People who get to the top are often there b/c they will push past standards (good and bad) others won’t. That’s a life lesson to learn and applies to everyone.

To bring the example back to dressage, it’s perpetually frustrating to me that a couple of the most prominent Team-destined dressage riders in our country crank their talented horses into frames via the tightest side reins I’ve ever seen when they have the talent, means and resources to give the horses the time and attention they need to succeed. How do I know they do it? I’ve seen it on their instagram’s, and the clips have been promptly pulled down before they could be shared. That said, there are plenty of talented, compassionate, hard-working and yes, COMPETITIVE, riders in our midst at every level. And I’d assume the same to be true for h/j land.

GM openly told the stories of his abuse in his book. He was so unconcerned as to look. That book told many stories I found disgusting.

And I’m no delicate flower. I’ve dealt with all sorts of reports of child neglect/abuse/murder in my career.

[Angela_Freda]

thanks.

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@Knights_Mom

Not the same as telling a child that if a horse doesn’t obey use violence and flip it over.

I feel the need to point out once again that she did not tell the child to do that.

If you choose to interpret her words that way, that’s up to you.

But those are not the words that actually came out of her mouth.

I interpreted her words as hyperbole for teaching purposes, as did many others.

Were it just me with interpretation issues I wouldn’t even be posting. But it’s not.

You just can’t do this stuff any more. That’s just the way it is.

Well I guess you could, but not if you wish to preserve horses in Olympics and people showing them and or riding them.

Personally I’m fine with horses leaving the Olympics and other top sport. Abuse after abuse it seems clear that humans, especially the “pros” can’t be trusted to be an advocate for the horses.

[anon56064099]

Right - I don’t doubt that and am certainly not accusing anyone of being a delicate flower and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that in your life/chosen area of profession. I haven’t the time or inclination to look into the GM issue as I didn’t ‘follow’ him, buy his book, support him or ride in his chosen area of discipline. Nor do I condone or support child abuse of any kind - I have a family member who was assaulted and feel passionately about the issue

I am a dressage rider simply reacting to what I thought was common knowledge - that he was at one point the prominent ‘expert’ in this industry. That was the only meaning of that sentence.

[Knights_Mom]

@endlessclimb

Man am I glad that I am not the instructor of many of the people here. Lord help you if you use language to help make a point, that is then taken literally.

My instructors are proficient enough in the English language that they can convey their thoughts without glamorizing greed, violence and impatience via their words.

I’ve also lessoned or rode in clinics with top people in the world who could also likewise appropriately teach without telling me to ride into a wall or flip my horse over backwards.

Weird, huh?

Amazing, eh?

[Angela_Freda]

@MHM

I think at least a couple of them have posted on Facebook to say that their kids had a fantastic time at the clinic and got a lot out of it. Avery Glynn’s mom, who I believe is also her trainer, for one.

yes, but not directy addressing the issues with comments made by KMP, I don’t think?
Those are not my circles so I am not seeing anything, so it may be that is what’s at play with my unawareness.

I wonder if the organizing body should have spoken up by now.

[Knights_Mom]

I’m betting those parents didn’t say squat as they didn’t want their kid ostracized, the kids chances of glory squashed.

[endlessclimb]

Sure, amazing. Wow. Taking everything literally, wow. Amazing.

[OntheFnce]

You have a lot to learn about the H/J world with regards to training and many of the abuses that went on with some of the prominent trainers.
Personally, I’m really surprised that AK and KP were part of the same clinic.
Again, KP’s conduct was unprofessional and against Safe Sport regulations which USEF must uphold. It’s not for debate.

[Knights_Mom]

@endlessclimb

Sure, amazing. Wow. Taking everything literally, wow. Amazing.

Yeah clearly it’s me who is the problem.

Guess I’m just going to have to continue to be a problem. In fact I’ll go for glory and be an even bigger problem. Oh wait, already doing that.

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” - MLK

“The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.” — Alice Walker

“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.” — Dr Martin Luther King Jr

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” — Ella Wheeler Wilcox

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.” — Archbishop Desmond Tutu

“A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true.” — Dr Martin Luther King Jr

"Silence helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.” — Elie Wiesel

[OntheFnce]

Anything negatively said on their part could potentially put them at risk for never being selected for a US team.

[MHM]

@Angela_Freda

I wonder if the organizing body should have spoken up by now.

They did.

USEF put out that statement saying that they were aware of the concerns about the clinic and it was under review.

I have a screenshot of that from Sunday, which was a week after the clinic ended, and probably only a few days after the salty compilation video started making the rounds on social media, I believe.

So I am prepared to take them at their word, and I’m guessing they are figuring out what to do about the situation, even if that takes more than 48 hours.

[endlessclimb]

Oh FFS. Quoting MLK because a trainer used some poorly worded hyperboles.

Give me a break.