Live Stream of Wellington Young Rider Clinic January 4-7

[Alterration]

I’ve hesitated to wade in on this, but as usual, I think there’s hype and it’s overblown.

Yes, some of those kids were on borrowed mounts. And honestly, they were riding poorly. Better than I could at this stage as an old broken lady, yes, but they weren’t paying attention and they were riding far too sloppily to be at those fence heights.

If you’re going to be at that level you’ve got to be able to ride whatever you get plunked on. Not just ride, but get it to perform. You don’t have months necessarily to “practice with it” and get that horse used to your ride. You’ve got to figure it out and ride it, and be workmanlike about it, which is something I do see less of in riders. These kids are supposed to be our future pros.

Did I love that she used those phrases? No. But I don’t believe for a minute that she really meant to be flipping a horse nor that the licking meant sustained beating. Smack and back (out of context) confused me until I realized she meant put your effing hand back on the reins after you use the crop. To not know how to use the crop effectively at this level blows my mind (much less how to adjust your stirrups). And I’ve had to teach people how to use a crop in the past - people are incredibly loathe to actually use it when necessary, and when it’s necessary there’s no time to learn it.

Better to have it in your head to the point that you use it automatically than be dead, IMO. Because as fence heights go up, the tolerance for mistakes goes down exponentially. I don’t mean the human tolerance, I mean the actual available wiggle room for the mistake. You’ve got a fraction of a second between you and potentially a career ending injury (or death) for either you or the horse to act.

I’ve had instructors yell at me and berate me and though my feelings were hurt afterward (I got over it) I needed it in that moment because I was mentally stuck. I needed something to light that fire in me to do the thing I needed to do to keep myself safe and not screw up the horse. I didn’t appreciate it then, but I appreciate it now.

The GHM thing…I think that’s a different story. But I am not big on conflating issues.

[2bayboys]

I’ll repeat what I said earlier in this thread. Prudent is on record that she is against SafeSport. She is on record saying she thinks that Morris’ accusers are liars and that he should be reinstated.

The fact that USEF would hire a clinician whose public statements are in direct opposition to something that USEF supports and promotes is beyond stupid. That they are now in a PR nightmare is their own fault. The fact that this blew in the same week that USEF is talking about Social License to Operate is so ironic as to be almost comical.

[OntheFnce]

Exactly.

[Knights_Mom]

@endlessclimb

Oh FFS. Quoting MLK because a trainer used some poorly worded hyperboles.

Give me a break.

You don’t get it. I’m not surprised.

[Rel6]

The point that many others have made though is that KP isn’t their trainer. She’s a clinician. Someone many of them (and certainly most of the people watching the live feed) don’t have a pre-established relationship with.

If my horse stopped at a fence and my trainer said, “next time he does that, I want you to kill him for it,” I would understand that my trainer meant, “I want you to appropriately reprimand him for the disobedience with one firm smack behind your leg.” No issue with it being taken literally, because I have years of riding with her and understand how she teaches and what she means. If she was teaching a newer client, or doing a clinic, she would instead spell out exactly what she wanted, and likely plainly say, “I want you to reprimand him for the disobedience with one firm smack behind your leg.”

If a clinician I had never ridden with said the same exact words in the same exact context, I would genuinely have no idea what level of force or discipline they expected and pretty taken aback to hear that. I would be lost by that instruction.

We all understand that when you have a pre-existing relationship with someone, you can read tone and nuance and not take things literally. We all do that everyday in personal and professional relationships. A live-streamed clinic with an audience and a large group of young participants, some of whom she’s likely never taught, isn’t that. So acting like people don’t get “using language to make a point” feels like you’re deliberately missing the point of the conversation.

[HipNo34]

I thought it was well-done and practical, too.

I do think saying “This lesson must have broken at least one hundred SS policies” is a bit of hyperbole itself, though.

Granted, I do not have a competing membership so I haven’t done the training. I only understand SS in the broad strokes (like, my understanding is that juniors need to have a third party looped into communications with their trainer, etc).

If there are 100 policies broken, I’d be afraid to leave my house but am willing to stand corrected on that.

[islgrl]

@Alterration

Smack and back (out of context) confused me until I realized she meant put your effing hand back on the reins after you use the crop. To not know how to use the crop effectively at this level blows my mind (much less how to adjust your stirrups). And I’ve had to teach people how to use a crop in the past - people are incredibly loathe to actually use it when necessary, and when it’s necessary there’s no time to learn it.

Interesting - I had zero idea what she was talking about . All I could think was she meant the hit them and then back them up.

I’m loathe to wade in further but why not, its raining and gross and I don’t feel like working so I’ll take the hit .

One of the commenters early in the thread hinted that if you broke the comments out by who was offended and who wasn’t it would break down along ages lines. And those who have been at this a while probably thought it was no big deal and the riders just have to toughen up and the younger riders were offended. I am definitely NOT a younger rider. I’ve been at this a very long time. Do I think she actually meant to have someone flip a horse - no. I don’t. Do I think these moments were cherry picked out and she probably had nice things to say also? Yes, I do. BUT. BUT. We need to do better. Words have meaning. There are those who may be looking for someone to look up to and emulate. KP has a long record behind her that may make her that person to someone. And her words matter. And she made VERY POOR CHOICES. And USEF needs to own that, and she needs to own that but based on her past record of opinions I don’t think she will. I hope I’m wrong.

[dags]

@Knights_Mom

You don’t get it. I’m not surprised.

Please do not equate the centuries long quest for black people to be afforded basic human rights with a bunch of privileged white kids potentially getting their feelings hurt at a clinic.

[Knights_Mom]

@islgrl

@Alterration

Smack and back (out of context) confused me until I realized she meant put your effing hand back on the reins after you use the crop. To not know how to use the crop effectively at this level blows my mind (much less how to adjust your stirrups). And I’ve had to teach people how to use a crop in the past - people are incredibly loathe to actually use it when necessary, and when it’s necessary there’s no time to learn it.

Interesting - I had zero idea what she was talking about . All I could think was she meant the hit them and then back them up.

I’m loathe to wade in further but why not, its raining and gross and I don’t feel like working so I’ll take the hit .

One of the commenters early in the thread hinted that if you broke the comments out by who was offended and who wasn’t it would break down along ages lines. And those who have been at this a while probably thought it was no big deal and the riders just have to toughen up and the younger riders were offended. I am definitely NOT a younger rider. I’ve been at this a very long time. Do I think she actually meant to have someone flip a horse - no. I don’t. Do I think these moments were cherry picked out and she probably had nice things to say also? Yes, I do. BUT. BUT. We need to do better. Words have meaning. There are those who may be looking for someone to look up to and emulate. KP has a long record behind her that may make her that person to someone. And her words matter. And she made VERY POOR CHOICES. And USEF needs to own that, and she needs to own that but based on her past record of opinions I don’t think she will. I hope I’m wrong.

I’m in my 60s. I took her to literally mean what she said. As an advocate for horses I found the instruction useless and potentially very dangerous.

It is not ok to demean riders. I don’t care if Mr. Olympics himself trained that way.

SafeSport training taught people that.

[Knights_Mom]

@dags

@Knights_Mom

You don’t get it. I’m not surprised.

Please do not equate the centuries long quest for black people to be afforded basic human rights with a bunch of privileged white kids potentially getting their feelings hurt at a clinic.

Nothing to do with human race. Injustice is injustice no matter that topic.

You forgot the suggestion/direction of horse abuse part.

[MHM]

@islgrl

@Alterration

Smack and back (out of context) confused me until I realized she meant put your effing hand back on the reins after you use the crop.

Interesting - I had zero idea what she was talking about . All I could think was she meant the hit them and then back them up.

If you watch the video, even the short compilation one, it shows her demonstrating the motion with her hand as she was saying the words. Use the stick, then immediately put your hand back on the reins.

[Doodlebug1]

I think your point about age is very interesting - especially given Albert Voorn and KMP are direct contemporaries, competing at the same level in the 80s and onwards. You can watch hours and hours of Albert in real life (I have) and on YouTube and you’ll barely hear a hint of anything other than calm, measured, respectful, logical language. (He teaches in English as well as Dutch!).

He achieves discipline and respect in the horses and the riders in a very different way, and to many, in a more nuanced and respectful way.

Personally, hyperbole it might have been, but encouraging ‘a good lickin’ ’ or ‘Daring the horse to turn’ is not appropriate in any context where you are teaching the competitors and instructors of tomorrow.

I found the KMP interview posted way up this thread interesting. She seems to hold everyone in contempt who is younger than her and that attitude came across in the session. Where she maybe rightly says that ‘we’ that are older had more bonding time with our horses and were able to develop feel more easily; you don’t compensate for that or develop those skills by being so abrasive with riders.

It’s more than the difference between the dutch warmblood temperament of AV and the more hot-headed TB temperament of KMP. It’s an ethos and way of being that fundamentally differs and to say that AV’s way is molly-coddling or creating snowflakes? Well, mainland Europe don’t do too badly in the SJ world; so I’ll let AVs CV speak for itself…

[roseymare]

https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2015/07/the-wild-man-of-showjumping-takes-a-clinic/?fbclid=IwAR2sSg93D2SFAa2bBSItb_8xlp8qYdF9uOo_6nGlNhzOQuf3JX9LSdGx5r4
Mr Voorn also seems to use hyperbole. I doubt he would really shoot someone even if he found them riding rolkur.

[roseymare]

I wholeheartedly agree. I do not agree with her stance on SS but I tend to take each event as separate. I can question why she was chosen as a clinician separately from questioning how she acted in the actual clinic.

[LSBC]

Could you even imagine any of those heroic people rolling in their graves grappling with all the horrific injustices and terror they have faced just to have their words put upon some mostly white, mostly very affluent kids at a clinic that probably costs thousands of dollars to attend riding six figure horses? I understand the point you are trying to make, but I don’t think this was the way to make it.

[islgrl]

I did watch the video, I missed that… thanks for that clarification

[MHM]

You’re welcome. It comes at the point when they were standing in the middle together, if anyone is looking for it.

[coffeehag]

@Knights_Mom

And Vroom is an internationally known equine professional so its not like he’s a basement dweller petting his calico cat under moms knitted quilt with orange Cheetos stains around his lips snd fingertips.

DYING

[Trekkie]

After following the continuation of the discussion a couple things come to mind.
-No horses were abused in the clinic
-No humans were abused in the clinic
While horrific abuses and harassment have occurred in the past with some very big name trainers we must be careful not to lump everything into a black/white or good/evil category. In this era of public knowledge, cell phones and social media we all must realize also that “there but for the grace of god go I”. We all may be so judged one day in a personal or professional moment where maybe we were not at our best, perhaps could have been more diplomatic or handled things differently. There is a huge difference between calling someone a birdbrain and sexually abusing them. While I do think some of her comments/approaches may have been inappropriate the pile-on of bashing may be just as much so. Hopefully the discussions surrounding this event will lead to some positive awareness around good ways to educate horses and riders for the future.

[atr]

There are 2 issues at play here. One is her attitude towards the participants and the other is her apparent attitude towards horses.

For the first, not my cup of tea, (and I’m old,) but (within the bounds of safesport) to each their own, no one is forced to do this.

For the second, I think we’d ALL agree that hyperbole or not, its a really bad look for equestrianism as a whole and she and everyone else involved need to realize that in today’s climate they need to think a bit harder about their use of words.