Live Stream of Wellington Young Rider Clinic January 4-7

I understand what you’re saying but some of the participants in this clinic actually are professionals. Both Luke J and Carlee McC, I believe both are riding and working as pros.

So no, they aren’t many of us :slight_smile:

I say this without being 100% certain - so please correct me - but I believe the age range in this group was 16-21 (or at least the upper end of the age range to be invited was 21 - based on the Talent Search, IIRC someone saying).

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I can’t lie, I am actually really troubled by this association. I understand that you feel that there was an injustice in this clinic and the way that Katie taught it. I get it. It rubs a lot of people the wrong way. But you’re offering quotes from Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor, and Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who fought racism through and with his entire life. That is just not comparable to a two hour lesson with a top equestrian. When these people spoke on “injustice” they were thinking about racism, classism, discrimination, etc., not a difficult riding lesson. The word injustice literally means “not right or not fair” which people feel that clinic was for the horses, but that is most certainly not even remotely the same kind of injustice all the people you referenced were fighting.

This troubles me so deeply because we live in a society where people don’t fight injustice enough and we often forget to look to people who have led us through and from injustice in the past. While I consider horses my identity, my passion, and my motivation, I am much more deeply concerned with the injustices that BIPOC communities face, or women face, or economic injustice, rather than the horses who had to endure an hour and a half lesson and probably got iced and treated accordingly after. I don’t mean to harp on you, but our curriculum right now is focusing on MLK and social injustices and that comment really struck a chord with me.

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I mean, we know GM polled horses. He was her mentor. A lot of these “legendary trainers” did terrible things to horses “back in the day.” When everything was sooo much better.

We’ve (almost) collectively decided polling is bad, so we don’t see it as common practice, at least not publicly. But who’s to say these “old school” trainers don’t still think that way? Especially after listening to what KMP was comfortable saying at a public live streamed clinic? I personally don’t find the “leap of logic” that massive.

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Sorry you are troubled but I use these quotes all the time to speak on animal abuse as I see it as the injustice in my backyard. The injustice I am able to fight.

I don’t see the issue but you are welcome to make me disappear from your COTH feed.

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They do still feel that way. They still rollkur horses, use bits with straps and traction like running reins between the front legs to lunge, put staples in horses foreheads (western), put glass or sharps under wraps, whip horses, flip horses over, use electrified spurs, run them into corners repeatedly, crank tightly nosebands, use spurs abusively, yank and crank the bit etc etc. All done by pros. Olympic medal winners.

Someone raised in the environment that GM himself writes about in his book, in his own words certainly might totally accept flipping a horse over backwards.

Apparently some here are used to it too.

I’m not.

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I would just hope that in the future you would use them to also fight larger and more profound injustices if you insist on their pertinence in this scenario as well. Admittedly I am a bit horrified that you use these quotes and apply them to animals seemingly often, but I sincerely hope that you are applying them in a broader way, perhaps with members of your larger community.

I am just trying to convey that the issues every single person that you named faced throughout their lives are exponentially more profound than this situation. I find often times (and I want to note I am being exceptionally general here) in my experiences with horse people they can sometimes be stuck in the past, or not accepting, or potentially more dismissive of those not as affluent or who are not the same color, and so when I the quotes like the ones you referenced being applied to horses and maybe not applied as equally or readily people, it makes me worry that we might not be prioritizing the most important things.

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And let’s not forget Barney Ward.

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I believe what @LSBC is trying to say is that there is a long history of white folks fighting harder for animal rights than for the rights of their fellow man, and it has not gone unnoticed by marginalized groups, and because of that some have a real problem with their icons being appropriated for those causes. Especially when, as @Trekkie quite accurately noted, no actual horses or humans were abused in this situation.

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I agree people are stuck in the past. No excuse though.

I try to fight injustice whenever and wherever I see it. Always have, since I was a kid. It is part of who I am.

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YES! Thank you! I could kiss you for this… or is that too much hyperbole for one thread??

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No no, that’s sexual harassment.

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:woman_shrugging: alas you can never win on the internet

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No you can’t, but I truly appreciate the levity :joy:

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They are not being instructed to flip a horse over. What an utterly ridiculous statement.

And I’m not sure if you’ve met any 16-21 year olds but they most certainly are not helpless impressionable children. You aren’t giving them any credit for any independent thought or education. In my mind, that infantilization is far worse than any of the “rougher” comments from KMP.

These are burgeoning pros that are not riding like the caliber of rider they can be. Watching the whole thing is instructive - I suggest you do so.

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I don’t know how to prove I defend people as well as animals. I could tell stories. Would they be believed? Would you believe that my first fistfight was when I was in Brownies, so maybe 1st grade, when I jumped into a fray where about 4 girls were beating a girl just for being Jewish? That I am friends with that girl to this day? That me and those attackers kept at it through school until one by one I had each begging me on their knees? Would you believe that?

So don’t be telling me what words I can or cannot use because you are envisioning me with attributes that are not true.

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Your statement means nothing to me.

Now we are up to imagining I’ve never met children.

My words stand.

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Why am I not surprised that this has all turned into a tale about how righteous you are

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Voorn (in the article listed) talks about spurs. Is that worse than instructing how to use a whip (quick one and done – particularly in the jumper ring and you need to get out of a combination) effectively/safely? Or sometimes using a barrier (fence) to slow down a horse rather than yanking them in the face?

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Ummm, somewhere below the 3 levels that are that pathway?

This wasn’t Elite/Pre elite Athlete event. It wasn’t Developing Athlete. It wasn’t even Emerging Athlete. THOSE are the levels where you are being scrutinized for the team, and I can say with some authority the even developing athlete is a long way from active scrutiny.

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As outcomes go, it was inevitable…

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