Live Stream of Wellington Young Rider Clinic January 4-7

[HipNo34]

As I mentioned in another comment, this topic has been argued in court.

I referenced a case involving Katie Couric and a Virginia gun group that accused her of deceptive editing in a documentary. Ultimately that case was found in Couric’s favor, however my point remains that “deceptive editing” is in fact a thing.

For example:

• Isolation: “Sharing a brief clip from a longer video creates a false narrative that does not reflect the event as it occurred.”

See this Washington Post guide: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/fact-checker/manipulated-video-guide/

[HipNo34]

I can see what you’re saying about allegations.

I have been careless there, I concede that.

I realized it was in another discussion elsewhere that I shared a screenshot of CMH’s TOS (I came away from the CMH TOS with the impression that it too would govern USEF content). Their TOS prohibits altering their video, which you can purchase from CMH. That would include the clinic video in question. I clicked on “purchase” and the site asked me how I wanted to pay.

I don’t know how to add the screenshot here; maybe it’s my less than premium membership (I am subscriber but this account was set up before that and… just never mind).

[K_VanOlst]

I’m not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but I’ve always been told truth is the absolute defense against libel/slander. And the truth is she did say those things. I guess whether or not the person who pulled those clips could be sued for deceptive editing would depend on whatever judge or jury heard the case not my circus, not my monkeys. I personally don’t think anything from that clip is slander or libel, but I’m not a judge. If they figure out who spliced the clips, I guess it would be interesting to see if anything was filed.

[HipNo34]

I can see what you’re saying, too.

Which is I guess what brings us back to cherrypicking what are clearly segments (technically I don’t suppose an actual linear narrative was created) and the reaction was entirely up to us as the audience.

Which still feels disingenuous to me but … shrug.

[IPEsq]

Those are totally separate claims and causes of action, so hypothetically, yes, you could have an outcome in the plaintiff’s favor on one and the defendant’s on another. Fair use is not a defense to a defamation claim, so it would not apply to that claim. Fair use is codified in the Copyright Act. The Copyright Act can also be preempted by the First Amendment. Totally separate from the laws for defamation claims, on which I am not an expert. However, it’s going to be USEF and/or CMH as plaintiffs a suit on copyright and KMP as a plaintiff in any potential defamation case, so these claims would not be raised in the same lawsuit or potentially even the same jurisdiction or venue.

[Ghazzu]

@K_VanOlst

I’ve always been told truth is the absolute defense against libel/slander

NAL either, but while that’s true in the US, I don’t think it’s necessarily the case everywhere.

[HipNo34]

And this occurred to me while I was ventilating potatoes just now. We did touch on this briefly upthread, and granted I can imagine you’re going to say definitely no legal issue there, but still. More than once someone has said that they thought USEF put this video out themselves, thanks to the watermark, which is its own bad look.

I am curious as to how they’re going to address that.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Mmmmm. This is a great example. I wouldn’t be dead- hyperbole. I wouldn’t be able to ride and look at a trainer in the middle. have ridden with Katie and she hasn’t said that I any of the lessons, so I wouldn’t be sure. However- I would ask. I’ve ridden in clinics with other top riders/ clinicians and no one has said “look at me” so I would be getting dressed down. And that’s ok- you learn something. Bully for you guys who are so advanced you would know exactly what they are asking while performing an exercise.

FFS- I’m defending the clinician here and I watched it.

[hrlo_1722]

100% this. Would I have been sobbing crying in that exact context? A high-pressure clinic, being watched for the career and team I’m hoping to make, surrounded by others who want the same thing, on a possibly unfamiliar horse who is not having it, windy? Most likely, but thankfully I’m just a ding-dong ammy.

But it’s hard to swallow that this is what is blowing up like you said, during the annual meeting weekend and amongst SO MANY SLO discussions, and during a time of year when many of us are sitting through SafeSport trainings. USEF, once again, shooting itself in the foot.

[K_VanOlst]

@Ghazzu

NAL either, but while that’s true in the US, I don’t think it’s necessarily the case everywhere.

You’re right, I was just looking at this through a US-centric lens since it was our national governing body hosting the clinic, unless I misunderstood that too. Again, H/J is not my given sport, so apologies.

[MHM]

@hrlo_1722

being watched for the career and team I’m hoping to make

That might be a bit of an overstatement.

I don’t think any of their possible future riding careers or Olympic selection were determined one way or the other in those three days.

[hrlo_1722]

Fair, but in my opinion, it’s a pretty good interview, and there are some juniors in that group who just aged out and will turn pro.

Also, if it’s not, then what is a clinic that describes itself as “designed to identify and develop the next generation of top U.S. Equestrian Team talent through instruction from experts in a variety of aspects of horsemastership” and selection includes “an athlete’s perceived potential to successfully contribute to future US Team Competitions” then?

[hrlo_1722]

This Youtube account has 4 videos of the first round: https://www.youtube.com/@GrandPrixDressageFan

[Midge]

Well, there was a fascinating bit of context to the ‘I don’t want to see you being jerked forward like a weakling.’ Whoever put that video together really had to work to turn that into a problematic comment.

[MHM]

A learning opportunity, like any other clinic.

[Knights_Mom]

@roseymare

https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2015/07/the-wild-man-of-showjumping-takes-a-clinic/?fbclid=IwAR2sSg93D2SFAa2bBSItb_8xlp8qYdF9uOo_6nGlNhzOQuf3JX9LSdGx5r4
Mr Voorn also seems to use hyperbole. I doubt he would really shoot someone even if he found them riding rolkur.

If one criminal calls out another criminal it doesn’t negate the crimes. Motive the same.

KMP did it. Said it.

Stuff like what she said is just unacceptable.

[Knights_Mom]

@LSBC

Could you even imagine any of those heroic people rolling in their graves grappling with all the horrific injustices and terror they have faced just to have their words put upon some mostly white, mostly very affluent kids at a clinic that probably costs thousands of dollars to attend riding six figure horses? I understand the point you are trying to make, but I don’t think this was the way to make it.

Varying opinions completely ok on a discussion board. We simply disagree.

[Midge]

And the context on the ‘too bad for him’ comment. Clearly, someone was working extra hard to make these things sound bad.

[MHM]

@Midge

And the context on the ‘too bad for him’ comment. Clearly, someone was working extra hard to make these things sound bad.

Really, you could say the same thing about any horse that has to work for a living instead of just spending his life as a pasture ornament.

[Knights_Mom]

@HipNo34

@Alterration

But strangely enough, none of those people would actually be inspired to flip a horse over because she said it.

… maybe you solved it right there. And gave us hope for the future.

No because the people INSTRUCTED to flip a horse over are children or at best young, impressionable, aspiring to be professional sub adults. They are not us.

Children are highly impressionable. I thought everyone knew.