Every rider at the advanced level does bad stuff. We all need to be careful with what we do when the public is watching and listening. Phones are everywhere.
Training at home should be done behind high, wide hedges.
KMP, be careful.
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Yikes. While I donât deny many, many top riders do things we wish we didnât know, this is not and should not be normalized.
I have worked for and ridden/shown with several World Cup, Nations Cup, US team representatives and none of them poled, used draw reins, or was abusive with horse or human. It can be done.
I have also received a ruined horse from a top Irish name who jumped FEI ranking classes and would stop at 2â6â verticals because that a**hat poled this already careful horse. People suck.
Letâs be better than that and tell KMP to be better, not careful.
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Yup. Itâs not okay in other sports either, but especially not okay when involving an animal who is just trying to do what you ask. You get stressed/flustered, the horse picks up on it, and thatâs not fair.
Running a horse into a fence is scary. All your basic survival instincts are telling you not to do it. Will the horse stop rather than run through it? Highly likely, since they have the same survival instincts butâŠhorses. Especially if itâs green and/or one you donât know.
As someone who teaches professionally, regardless of the content being taught if the instructorâs communication style is acting as an impediment to learning and repeated students in a group are not hearing/understanding/processing/absorbing/improving-- the appropriate response from a good teacher is not to continue with that same communication style but to adjust.
If all my students fail an exam, thatâs on me not on them. Even if the material I taught was correct and I taught it the way I taught it had previously been taught to me âback in the dayâ and I learned/survived that method, I did the students no favors by ignoring that what I was doing was not working for them.
Name calling is a very poor method of instilling learning.
Separately, I would never use the term âflip the horse overâ when what I really meant was âstop rather than going forward even if the stop is abruptâ or âgive the horse a lickingâ when what I meant was âuse the crop in a firm and well timed way.â âFlippingâ and âgiving a lickingâ both have a sense of violence inherent in the terms that has no place around horses. I know anything can slip out of someoneâs mouth by accident but the things you think and say when you know other people are watching is indicative of the way you view the world and the things you do when no one is watching. If itâs ok to hold the participants to a high standard, why isnât it ok to hold the clinician to a high standard? No clinician endorsed by the USEF should be teaching that itâs ok to unnecessarily expose a horse to harm or to hit a horse out of anger.
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Integrity is what you do when NO ONE is watching. All discussion aside⊠that comment was weird. There is a fine balance between pushing for excellence and abuse. To horse or rider.
I understand the goal is excellence and winning. Itâs the methods that bear scrutiny. Being tough, expecting the best, and pushing for that means a whole lot of things to different people. But laying back on the age old adage that current riders are soft or coddled or the old times were golden is bullshit. And I adore a tough trainer. A tough but fair trainer. If the means to the end (winning) has to be belittling to the rider or abusive to the horse the whole system is fuâŹ%#d
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Yeah, I feel like Iâve been hearing ânone of these kids with fancy horses know how to tack up!!!â Since I was a kid 25+ years ago and have never seen actual evidence. I guess itâs possible, but if thatâs the case, why isnât it being taught at all these top barns?
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Around 1:17:34 of session 1:
âWhat all of this I hope shows to you is what you need to work on ⊠you need to work onâŠalways your connection with your horse, so that he likes you. You want the horse to like you and to respect you. You want him to do, to understand what youâre telling himâŠâ
So I canât read German, lol, and didnât take the extra step of clicking the play button because I assumed the red, angry looking sentence meant the video of Session 1 was unavailable on CMH/USEF Network. Iâm as bad as anyone Iâm criticizing for not looking past the first blush.
Itâs there.
While testing it, I clicked around various points. I got the 'Whereâs Anne?" part where KP talks about properly adjusting oneâs stirrups as being another hour-long lesson she didnât have time for (delivered matter-of-factually, in what I was reading as a fairly neutral tone). I skipped toward the end because what I was really curious about was how things wrapped up with these kids. She wasnât in harridan mode there either. She was actually giving positive feedback and praise in the clips where I landed.
It wasnât all SCREAMING and hurling insults and confusing and over-facing horses and riders. It wasnât totally old-school, retrograde mean trainer. Which is what you come away with from a lot of the online conversation.
Iâm going to settle with the whole thing now while I fold laundry.
Iâm anticipating that are certainly situations that KP couldâve handled differently. Iâm sure that she communicated some things badly and some of the criticism may be merited. But I can already tell that the entirety of the session is a lot more complex than what people have actually seen.
All non-USEF members and those without access to the full video have to go on are those clips. And theyâre going around and around and around.
Itâs not that this isnât an important conversation to have but itâs the way that itâs happening. The actual substance of the whole is being completely consumed by reaction to bits and pieces.
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Whatâs actually going to happen here is the clinics will not be broadcast for our use anymore, or no one worth listening to will teach them. And thatâs a shame. If you actually watched the clinic, it was hugely helpful, and you can see where the corrections were necessary. Exercises are not optional, there is no âtryâ. Getting it done is first priority, and then things get easier and better. Very few of the first group came out with this understanding, but the second group sure did. Also, they had to learn to use the stick. They literally didnât know how. Even the last day, they still had it in the wrong hand, or were using it on the neck, or dropped it (accidentally or on purpose, not sure which is worse) on the way to the line they had to chase at the first round.
Itâs actually not supposed to be about it being fun at this point. Thatâs for amateurs. These are the people we are training to ride 7 figure investments, on a team funded by your money. Itâs about results.
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Well said
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Or both.
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I believe if you have ever truly used this exercise and committed to a straight halt without giving up and turning left or right in surrender then you know that the horse will not literally run into the wall or jump it. It is a matter of committing. Changing your mind and wimping out the last minute and even looking left or right, or shifting your weight will cause the horse to turn, and not halt straight. A comment above was made regarding KATIEâs use of hyperbole in order to illustrate this vital skill.
This exercise is in essence a half halt , the preponderance of these students clearly had no grasp of. In fact, Iâd say from what view of the videos are available almost every one of the students who was having difficulty with the borrowed horses was not able to execute and therefore straighten.
These students have been let down by whoever sent them to ride in this clinic and represented them as able at this level.
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This, this, this. And this:
âItâs actually not supposed to be about it being fun at this point. Thatâs for amateurs. These are the people we are training to ride 7 figure investments, on a team funded by your money. Itâs about results.â
There seems to be some confusion as to who these kids are, how theyâre chosen, and the point of the clinic, which is another communications issue. The internet has widened the audience and discussion beyond H/J people who follow this world closely. Itâs not just the clinicianâs problem â word choice, choice of photos and video clips, and excerpts, and general clarity are becoming everyoneâs problem.
The original FB post USEF Network shared to promote the Katie Prudent sessions has disappeared, which I realized today when I went searching through my own timeline where I shared it. I wanted to watch it again because I remember, at the time I shared it, thinking that the looping video bit (which IIRC included the âadjust stirrups is a lesson for another dayâ part) was not something I wouldâve chosen for that post. It leaned a little too negative without a lot of surrounding context considering the platform and that youâd need to be a member to see the whole thing.
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I guess I just donât understand the mental gymnastics that takes you from âI donât think trainers need to refer, even in jest, to flipping a horse because metaphorical or not it promotes an outdated way of thinking that not everyone will take metaphoricallyâ to âWe shouldnât be giving firm, constructive feedback to the athletes in the upper echelon of the sport.â
If the goal is to get Ponykins to stop in a straight line and horse after horse is stopping, why is the solution âuse the stickâ and not ânone of you should be jumping this high if you canât figure this out so weâre lowering the fences?â
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So, it seems that many of the people posted here feel that if one is going to go on to be an elite athlete, there is some inherent need for them to endure shitty teaching with verbal abuse. That is just rubbish. Fair and effective teaching is not coddling. There are far better ways to get your point across when youâre feeling frustrated with student response.
Katy Monahan is a phenomenal rider, and I know she has produced many great riders herself. That does not leave her educating abilities immune from criticism.
The equestrian community in general, and the hunter jumper Community specifically has generations of accepting abusive teaching, abusive training, and sexual abuse⊠And it all gets thrown under the rug because somebodyâs a bigwig. The tendency to put people on a pedestal so they can do no wrong runs deep in our world.
Of course they were good parts in the clinic with Katie. That doesnât excuse her Referring to flipping horses over, running them into walls, and belittling the participants. We know things now about education that we did not know 30-40 years ago. When you know better youâre supposed to do better. She doesnât know better, sheâs just teaching the way she herself was taught. That doesnât make it OK. Donât make excuses for crap education.
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Lowering the fences to what? They were tiny, and the stopping occurred at a 2â panel. It had nothing to do with the jumps and everything to do with the discipline.
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Seriously. All of her defenders comparing this type of training to other top level sports (itâs just as bad/harsh/strict) are missing the point.
This is the only sport that involves an animal whose participation is not voluntary.
Broadcasting videos that advocate flipping or âgiving a lickingâ or running into a wall are not the way to keep this sport alive and thriving. I donât care how it was done back in the day, if you want this sport to continue into the future, then you better figure out - and fast - that this type of training is NOT acceptable for horses or riders.
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So the best comeback is to say, âWell, shame on you for caring. Now we will lose some videosâ? Because that is the highest priority?
This is exactly what is wrong with the sport. When those in it think itâs okay for someone to teach this way and then try to make those calling it out the bad guys.
No matter the cost, ambition, or level, no one should be treated poorly. Is your support for an archaic system of riding and training really the hill you want to die on?
Perhaps, just perhaps, our teams could be MORE successful if we didnât consider this âgod-likeâ coaching the best way to do things.
Maybe, just maybe, if we treated people professionally, as well as the horses, they may perform better.
If this group of riders is supposed to represent to best of our up-and-comers but then fail so badly in a training session, maybe the problem isnât the riders or horses but the system and people who think itâs okay for an international US coach to call young adults âbird brainsâ and tell them to âflipâ horses and give them a good âlickingâ.
But hey, the pros arenât electrocuting horses for insurance money or raping young adults anymore, so itâs all good. This is nothing. These riders should be grateful to be bullied and embarrassed because they canât ride their way out of a paper bag. And the horses, well, they get to be privileged show horses and maybe go to the Olympics. /s 
(Yes, Iâm being sarcastic.)
Itâs 2024, time for a bunch of people to join the real world where this type of behavior from anyone is not tolerated. As a few have pointed out, if someone can say this on video in public, what the heck is going on behind closed doors.
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This a million times as well as @KellyS 's post (she always does good ones!).
From the clip KMP sounded like a terrible teacher. Maybe in real life she is not. That clip is going viral and is not a good look for the equestrian community. Equestrian pros from Europe are even commenting how absolutely unacceptable it was (Obviously thereâs nasty individuals there too.). You teach what you have in front of you. Maybe they werenât up to the level they should have been (honestly the flat work is often quite dismal in a lot of these clinics) but is that the fault of the kids? What about the trainers that put them there? Itâs the trainers who just want their riders in the ring and showing.
Regardless- the worst part was the flipping and the lickinâ comments. Unnecessary. That is what non-horse people are going to see. And no one really knows if she would actually do that. To suggest the horse wouldnât behave in such a way with her because if it did was highly irresponsible and dangerous. Suggesting beating a horse is disgusting in itself. Over the past year or so Iâve become very disillusioned with the people at the top of our sport. A lot of them are just big entitled asshats. I wouldnât trust any of them to treat a horse in their care as anything but a machine to be used. I honestly, donât really care about the comments to the students- whatever Iâm sure they will get over it. But horses donât choose to do these things for us. And no Iâm not a PETA fan or think people should stop riding and showing⊠but for a BNT to make such comments only justifies these actions to impressionable people.
And if people saying all these negative things against KMP will stop this clinic from being shown⊠meh⊠In the grand scheme of things itâs not going to affect anyone.
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It has nothing to do with discipline. A strong hand canât force results. Beating an animal into submission has been proven time and time again to be a fruitless and foolish endeavor.
If this grid is a problem even at canter poles then itâs clear the issue is the grid.
And regardless of issue, telling the athlete that youâd go so far as to flip the horse to strong arm them into doing what you want accomplishes nothing.
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Also I believe medals from YR, and Anne K picks wildcard spots- bc Mia B doesnât even do the equ.
