Livestock Friendly Dog for Novice Dog Owner?

[ZiggyStardust]

I’ve done a search for livestock guard dogs, and found lots of good info. The Great Pyrenees and Anatolian seem popular choices, but I’m wondering if they are overkill for what I need. I’m purchasing 5 acres, and will have 1-3 horses ultimately, plus companion animals for the 1st horse immediately. Companions would likely be goats, possibly also sheep, maybe 2-3.

I will be living by myself, and it’s not super remote, but enough that I’m interested in 1-2 dogs who will also guard me and the property in general, not aggressively, but a deterrent / early warning system for predators (animal and human). Certainly coyotes around, and likely other potential threats to the goats, but ideally not dogs that are constantly vocal, as neighbors aren’t that far away. All neighbors have dogs, and similar lot sizes.

I’ve never owned a dog, so don’t want to get “more” dog than I need for this situation. I also have a housecat, who stays indoors. Property is fully fenced, with ~5 ft no-climb. Includes dog run.

So, wise COTH friends, what do you think would be a good fit? This would be my first dog(s), and I’m assertive, but dogs that are uber-dominant probably not ideal. Thanks!!

[China_Doll]

Sounds like a lot of animals and taking on a lot for just moving to your first property. I don’t know where you live and weather conditions but I think you should slow down and don’t plan on so many animals. That is a lot to take care of. I wouldn’t look for a specific breed but the right dog may come along. From a shelter, a stray, who knows. I would not be getting one to be the guard but more of your companion and be in the house.

[btswass]

If I were you I would get a donkey as a companion animal. They are very protective and will chase off any wild animals and will also give a nice loud bray if they see people coming onto the property. A donkey does double duty as a companion for your horse and a guard animal/warning signal

[ZiggyStardust]

@China Doll

Sounds like a lot of animals and taking on a lot for just moving to your first property. I don’t know where you live and weather conditions but I think you should slow down and don’t plan on so many animals. That is a lot to take care of. I wouldn’t look for a specific breed but the right dog may come along. From a shelter, a stray, who knows. I would not be getting one to be the guard but more of your companion and be in the house.

Thanks - yep, it is a lot to take on! I’d be bringing the animals in over time, to make it more manageable; just want to get a plan together. Get myself and the cat moved in first for a couple of months, have the goat rescue out to take a look at my fencing, etc. Would only have 1 horse and 1-2 goats for a while, but want to think it through longer-term. County will help me do a farm plan.

[TheJenners]

Agree on the donkey because it will be more what you seem to be used.

[crosscreeksh]

Great Pyrenees are wonderful…but I don’t recommend them for your situation…They don’t particularly guard horses or people. They “CAN” be difficult as they are their own bosses and don’t recognize borders very well. Some dig under fences…others jump!! Ours did neither…but he had no sense for returning home after he ran off coyotes. He became a house dog years before he died of old age and was NEVER trustworthy to not chase anything that moved!! We loved him to death…but I would never have another one. I think there are better choices for a 5 acre farm. FWIW…not all horses and all goats can live together happily. Goats are too fragile for some horses. Donkeys make good, durable companions!! Good luck.

[Bluey]

Goats have known to eat horse tails, so consider if that is ok if it happens.

For a guardian dog, you probably need way more land to keep a guard dog happy, they wander around and need more exercise than a little place would give them.

I agree that moving first and then find out what your true needs may be makes more sense.
Who knows, your horse may not need a companion, a dog may find you, say, an older dog ready to settle down, not needing to roam much, happy to just lay around.

See first how the place lives, then decide what you need that makes sense once there.

[clanter]

We have always had Golden Retriever and German Shepherd Dogs usually one of each at these same time. The Goldens love the horses (at least ours have always) the GSD just takings on the the duty of guard everything that belongs on the property.

Many years ago we had one GSD who was a trained protection dog, we had to carry special insurance on the pup plus sign him up with the local police department… this dog died well over a decade ago but the police still stop by to check on him. Current GSD is nearly as big as he was but being a female it is easy to prove she isn’t him BUT every body thinks she is “that dog”. We got him to protect our four kids …yeah some protection dog, youngest daughter would make a harness for him to pull her wagon around the pasture which he would do with tail just wagging away… but he was priceless as he would set down behind the kids if they answered the front door when the pizza came and watch everything.

Suggest you check with your homeowners carrier to see if they have breed specific restrictions that would push your insurance costs up.

As for cost to feed, the GSD eats as much as a horse

If just a single dog… look at a Belgian Tervuren… our current GSD is long hair and often is confused as a Tervuren (we have had her in scent classes with Tervurens and those owners thought she was a Tervuren … we know she is a GSD as we picked her from the litter.

http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/belgian-tervuren/

[Bluey]

I would not say a tervuren is a dog for a first time dog owner or to be turned loose to be a livestock guarding dog.

At least the ones we had in our dog club were all serious working dogs and took much socializing and experienced training to make them good citizens.
I helped the owners puppy handling and socializing and even with all the work, they were more dog than many would want to keep trained and entertained if not a serious competitor in dog events.
Belgian Tervuren are not breed for nice, accommodating, gentle pets, or to let them entertain themselves turned out without direction.

[Dance_To_Oblivion]

For 5 acres if you get a LGD breed I would highly recommend using some type of invisible fence system because they will still go adventuring over the 5 foot fence

Great Pyrs tend to be really barky for my taste. We have a Karakachan and a Kangal on our farm, and have also had a Great Pyr and a Maremma. The Kangal is my favorite by far, followed by the Karakachan. When the Kangal barks she. has a reason.

[ZiggyStardust]

Thanks all for the responses so far! There is a donkey rescue in this state, so will ponder that option more. The goat rescue is quite close by, and will help select a goat more suitable for a horse companion. Horse is quite social, and I don’t think would be happy alone. The property has multiple shelters, but at this point nothing where a goat could be completely secured at night.

Not really worried about predators for the horse, due to his size, and the kind of medium-rural location, but would hate for something to get at a smaller animal, especially a rescue who’s already had enough bad luck!

[Zu_Zu]

another '‘NO’ for Gr. Pyrenees for your situation

[shakeytails]

Loved my Pyr, but she did bark all. night. long. Not a problem when you live in a rural area, but if you have close neighbors they’ll hate you. She also patrolled not just my 45 acres, but teamed up with the neighbor’s Pyr to also patrol another 50-60 acres across the road and would keep an eye on another neighbor’s small sheep herd on a regular basis. They loved watching her out with their sheep. The coyotes never came close when she​ was alive. And she was friendly with all visitors as long as we were home- apparently she told you to go away if we were not.

[Guilherme]

“No” on the Anatolian. They are wonderful protectors but are also among the most aggressive protectors. A qualified “yes” on the Pyr as they are among the least aggressive but still effective protectors.

Here’s a link that has useful information:

https://www.thespruce.com/choosing-a-livestock-guardian-dog-breed-3016777

Here is some comparison data:

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/8251-8132-2-PB.pdf

G.

[Miss_Woodford]

Nthing the suggestion of a mini donkey. Good companion for the horse (some horses are scared of or otherwise not happy with goats and need to be housed separately, and vice versa) + good guard animal + easy keepers + they are quite entertaining, charming critters in their own right.

[fordtraktor]

I would invest in a security system and donkey if you don’t really want a dog anyway. It will be cheaper and far less work, and won’t potentially kill your cat.

[S1969]

@fordtraktor

I would invest in a security system and donkey if you don’t really want a dog anyway. It will be cheaper and far less work, and won’t potentially kill your cat.

Agreed. My oldest dog is 16 years old right now and pretty needy. If you don’t want a dog because you want a dog…don’t get one. Just like owning a farm, owning a dog is a “lifestyle” - even those that live outdoors. The care/feeding/veterinary needs are all important and different from horses/livestock.

What do you plan to do with your goats/sheep? If you don’t have specific plans (milk, meat, wool), I’d get another horse or donkey and delay decisions about goats/sheep and/or other animals that need “guarding”. My horses do not need guarding from coyotes. I would pity the poor coyote that would challenge a horse.

If you have significant plans for goats/sheep, i’d ask people in your area what is best. My friend had Nubians and they don’t really need protecting from coyotes either. But if you’re looking at the little ones, ask around. The best protection might just be a barn at night.

[ZiggyStardust]

@Miss Woodford

Nthing the suggestion of a mini donkey. Good companion for the horse (some horses are scared of or otherwise not happy with goats and need to be housed separately, and vice versa) + good guard animal + easy keepers + they are quite entertaining, charming critters in their own right.

Standard donkey, or mini donkey? My life would be complete with a mini donkey (seriously!), but wouldn’t a mini be more susceptible to predators?

There are 2 goats in the barn where my horse is currently boarded, and he’s fine with them.

[ZiggyStardust]

@fordtraktor

I would invest in a security system and donkey if you don’t really want a dog anyway. It will be cheaper and far less work, and won’t potentially kill your cat.

Thanks fordtraktor. House has a security system, and will install motion detector lights around the house. I would like to have a dog someday, and I’ll be working from home such that I should be home most of the day 4-5 days a week. Since dogs are for sure more work, want to try to get the best fit. Maybe donkey sooner, and dog later will be best.

[ZiggyStardust]

@S1969

What do you plan to do with your goats/sheep? If you don’t have specific plans (milk, meat, wool), I’d get another horse or donkey and delay decisions about goats/sheep and/or other animals that need “guarding”. My horses do not need guarding from coyotes. I would pity the poor coyote that would challenge a horse.

If you have significant plans for goats/sheep, i’d ask people in your area what is best. My friend had Nubians and they don’t really need protecting from coyotes either. But if you’re looking at the little ones, ask around. The best protection might just be a barn at night.

Goats / sheep would just be a few rescues, from the local goat rescue, because I’ve loved goats since I was a kid, and would have space for at least a couple. The sellers had some smaller livestock, as evidenced by the upper smaller pasture, with a mini-sized shelter. Animals were all gone when they listed, so not sure what they had besides one horse and dogs. Will ask them, and see if they ever had predator issues.