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For some of us it’s hard to cheer on a person who lacks the horsemanship of other competitors. How did he have two horses lose a shoe on course? And why did he continue on? One horse was spun. Sorry, but I can’t really cheer on a guy who ran a shoeless horse on course, tried to jog and obviously lame horse and still attempt to compete with it. You may be okay with that, and that’s fine - you’re entitled to your opinion just as others are entitled to theirs.

I also agree that it’s a bit pathetic that some riders need multiple horses, knowing that it’s likely that one won’t make it through. That goes for OT and Boyd. And that says a lot about this sport when two top riders can’t get their horses through.

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All of this about Ollie is kind of outrageous. Quantum Leap was no more sound & was passed. Leah G.’s horse & Singapore weren’t looking great either but were passed.

The bigger picture is that we, again, got our asses handed to us by UK based riders. They had less of a Spring season than we’ve had & still brought all of their horses home from a too tough xc course with clean jumping & minimal time.

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Are you familiar with Eventing? Losing a shoe happens in every event at every level, sometimes in all of them at every event. That’s why farriers are there. It’s part of the sport. Like blowing a tire in a car race.

They can easily continue without shoes. It makes the riders job way harder but horses are actually designed to run without shoes, the shoes aren’t a big deal to lose. You will only see someone pull up over a shoe if the shoe is twisted or the horse is unsound and you can feel it or if the horse is losing confidence.

If you watched Ollies ride you can see the horse was extremely confident despite the absolute downpour, slippy ground and freezing temps.

Also the multiple horse comment. Not sure what you mean by “need”. This is their life and profession. Getting to a 5* is a HUGE accomplishment and such a rarity. If you have a horse that is fit and ready and qualified you don’t miss the opportunity especially when there hasn’t been a 5* here in two years! Many eventers have multiple horses at the upper levels running.

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It happens in jumpers as well. If the horse feels fine, you keep going and put it on after.

Horses pull shoes while turned out all the time. IME they don’t stand still in the field until the shoe is fixed - they keep playing and engaging in the activities that likely resulted in the shoe being lost to begin with… :slight_smile: :laughing:

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Right. This is the point. We don’t have anyone who can do what the Prices did this weekend, and turn in that kind of consistency. We just don’t right now. Doug and Quinn may be closest, honestly.

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Phillip’s performance this weekend should not be overlooked. I haven’t always been a fan of the horse’s way of going, but he looked reasonable this weekend, and Phillip put up a decent dressage score and added just a handful of cross-country time to it. Sure, we’re getting bored of seeing his name on the roster, but that’s not his fault. He put up exactly the performance you are looking for from a team rider. Tokyo will not have a drop score, and I think people are seriously underestimating what that will do. Above all else, cross country reliability needs to be the priority of the day.

For me, as boring as it is, I think the US sends Boyd and Phillip, no brainer (no I’m not excited about it, but I think that’s what the facts say). The third spot could be Doug, Tamie, Liz, Lauren, or Buck - they all have their pros and cons. The interesting question for me is which horse Boyd gets sent on. QC Diamantaire, Mama’s Magic Way, and Off the Record won’t be going to Tokyo, but for me they made strong cases for consideration in a couple years’ time. Someone needs to start funding Meghan O’Donoghue.

On a personal note, while I disagree with the lack of drop score because I think it introduces more chance variation than is necessarily fair in our sport (one misplaced stud or thrown shoe and the whole game is blown), I do like how much emphasis will be placed onto good cross-country riding. It doesn’t matter what you can put up in the first phase. If your entire team can’t jump all the jumps on the first try, you won’t be coming home with a medal. It is stark how few teams have finished all their riders with no cross country jumping penalties at championships, even looking back through all of eventing history. This is going to be interesting (assuming it runs at all).

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I also think they need Phil for the trailblazer position. They really don’t have anyone more experienced who can perform under pressure. He’s the pillar they need imo.

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A couple of days after Burghley 2018, I sat at a BE100 fence watching Tim Price in the warm up ring trying to persuade a very reluctant young horse over a practice fence. I congratulated him on his Burghley win as he stopped close by and his response was “Thank you. This is my daily reality (indicating his difficult young horse with a wry smile), a 5* is only the icing on the cake”.

It is in the daily grind that skills and resolve are honed and relationships built. OT has had his winner since the horse was 4 and they have come up the ranks together.

Many top American riders seem to buy in made horses - Shamwari, Mr Medicott - and I’m not certain that is a good strategy in eventing.

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I believe that both Mai Baum and Vandiver are American-developed.

Are there any current contenders for the US team that were developed outside of the US?

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The two you picked were good horses…Shamwari finished 7th at WEG with Boyd. Mr. Medicott did 2 Olympics with different riders for the US. KOC finished top 10 with him.

Anyway… Jonelle’s horse Grovine de Reve was formerly ridden by Dan Jocelyn at WEG. Seems Jonelle got a good tune from him this weekend.

OT took over rides from Andrew Nicholson, did very well with them.

I don’t think it’s only a case of a partnership from 4 years old. It’s riding skills and whether that horse and rider pair can mesh.

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Non-Americans are just as guilty as buying horses produced by other riders. Where UK and EU have US riders beat is the affordability and access to dozens of events within short distance of one another.

To side track, I want a “what they’re wearing” column for all the tack this weekend. I want to know who is wearing what and the whys :joy: Loved some of the bridles I saw in the jog, saw some interesting and cool tack on XC including some pads and boots.

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Yes, I am. And I think it’s sad that it is expected that shoes come flying off at every level at every event. That says an awful lot about the sport. It’s another reason why so many take issue with this discipline.

I know that Darkwave mentioned it happens in the jumpers “all the time.” It doesn’t happen “all the time.” My hunter lost a shoe on course in hunters, so yes I know it happens. But no, it doesn’t happen constantly and shoes aren’t flying off left and right. Funny that some get so defensive about this sport and think because “it happens” that somehow it’s just ok. That is part of the problem - who would do that to their horse several times a year? People like you I guess?

Asking people if they are familiar with the sport is a cop out. We are familiar with it. We just don’t like what it’s become - a showjumping test on an eventing course where nobody seems to care whether or not it was appropriate to proceeed on a day of extreme conditions because “it’s an OLYMPIC YEAR!”

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I asked because I would expect anyone who is familiar with Eventing to know this. I’m shocked anyone who events has an issue with this.

What’s your issue with shoes coming off? Can you elaborate how you find this is an issue with the sport? I’m genuinely asking because I’m not understanding where you are coming from.

A lot of these horses are reset the night before for XC or right before with welded on studs. They are running in deep mud and slick grass at times. It would be ridiculous to expect horses shoes to not come off.

People like me are ok with shoes coming off?

Yeah I guess people like me are ok with it because I’m aware of how it’s a complete non issue and doesn’t cause the horses any issue either. What a strange argument.

If we didn’t event in the rain we wouldn’t get to event at all. I’m thinking Eventing might not be the sport for you.

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The first 2/3 of the 5* competitors did not compete in the rain. There were issues spread throughout the class and many of them weren’t during the rain.

Did you read Kyle Carter’s post about the footing? If you were able to go on Facebook (as I did), you could see his photos of the ground after all competitors had run on it. It was amazingly good. Most issues I saw with slipping were in the 4*S and usually because the rider had not set the horse up well for something - then a slip occurred.

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When you’re galloping at full speed on grass that may or may not be muddy, changing terrain constantly, yes shoes are going to come off. I’m not really sure what you expect to happen? I’ve ridden horses plenty of times who lost a shoe and the farrier couldn’t come out that day to reset it. Most horses will be just fine without a shoe so long as they don’t step on the clip or need super special padded shoes.

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The only time I’ve ever had an issue with a horse losing a shoe but still riding is if the shoe doesn’t come off all the way and twists, if it gets stepped on and “reshod”, or if they have to go on a lot of gravel and rocks so the newly unshod foot might be painful or get bruised. Most of the time, a lost shoe is not a big deal.

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[quote=“OverandOnward, post:1302, topic:759034, full:true”]

Riders do not make decisions when in a team.

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Everyone at home on their couch could always have done it better.

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Hey I’ve got issues with other things, but not with losing shoes. Sh*t happens.

I, however, was not aware they would reshoe a horse with welded studs. Why not just use red Loctite? Any of us who have used that stuff knows - once you put it on that sucker is going NOwhere, even if you want it to.

Seems like undue stress on the hoof to put a whole new shoe on.

And I’m sorry, even if someone says “Oo I learned from it” - anyone who even remotely thinks it’s ok to break the rules by beating a horse too many times in front of the general public did not learn not to do that - that’s ingrained in their mindset. Can you imagine how those horses were (or are, because he likely learned how not to get caught) being treated at home if this happened in public?

I’m not going to condone those horseman. You do you.

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:joy: :joy:

I hope readers here realize this is just a discussion… it’s been a fun one too.

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