LK3DE Live Stream Chat

[endlessclimb]

Hey I’ve got issues with other things, but not with losing shoes. Sh*t happens.

I, however, was not aware they would reshoe a horse with welded studs. Why not just use red Loctite? Any of us who have used that stuff knows - once you put it on that sucker is going NOwhere, even if you want it to.

Seems like undue stress on the hoof to put a whole new shoe on.

And I’m sorry, even if someone says “Oo I learned from it” - anyone who even remotely thinks it’s ok to break the rules by beating a horse too many times in front of the general public did not learn not to do that - that’s ingrained in their mindset. Can you imagine how those horses were (or are, because he likely learned how not to get caught) being treated at home if this happened in public?

I’m not going to condone those horseman. You do you.

[Jealoushe]

I hope readers here realize this is just a discussion… it’s been a fun one too.

[initiate1987]

You mean we’re not the team selectors??

gasps in disbelief

[Equibrit]

@atl_hunter

For some of us it’s hard to cheer on a person who lacks the horsemanship of other competitors. How did he have two horses lose a shoe on course? And why did he continue on? One horse was spun. Sorry, but I can’t really cheer on a guy who ran a shoeless horse on course, tried to jog and obviously lame horse and still attempt to compete with it. You may be okay with that, and that’s fine - you’re entitled to your opinion just as others are entitled to theirs.

The UK riders travel with a big support team. There would be vets, doctors, physios, farriers etc. For anyone to tear down OT for losing shoes and jogging that horse is pretty stupid. Do you know that it was his decision ? Maybe you know his horses better than the UK support professionals and OT.

[endlessclimb]

Beating that horse sure was. It’s not out of line to question his whole mentality towards the animals under his care after that.

[Jealoushe]

I wouldn’t say he was beating the horse. It was too much whip for sure but beating? I have to watch the video again but I don’t remember it being a beating.

People can grow and change though. I believe no horse would carry this man around so many events in top class form if they didn’t like the guy.

No groom would work for him and stay silent if he was beating horses at home. I’m sorry but I just don’t think you can train 5* event horses by beating them. That’s not the partnership that’s going to work at that level.

About the shoes - don’t know enough about them other than it is sometimes done.

[endlessclimb]

See: Andrew Kocher. Sometimes it can take a long time for people to tell the truth. You know that MANY people surrounding him (Andrew) knew what was going on and it took an FEI investigation to lay down the hammer.

[Blugal]

@Jealoushe

No groom would work for him and stay silent if he was beating horses at home. I’m sorry but I just don’t think you can train 5* event horses by beating them. That’s not the partnership that’s going to work at that level.

Sadly, I know this does happen, all too well. You know that saying “never meet your heroes”? I worked for someone like this starting as a naive and wide-eyed teen in love with the sport. The rider was personality-disordered/narcissistic but I didn’t have enough life experience to understand any of that.

She was verbally and emotionally abusive to everyone, and definitely beat and mistreated the horses all the time. None of that stopped her from being on the Team multiple times. Of course the horses that wouldn’t put up with the abuse were labeled “difficult” and quickly banished from her barn.

Everyone in our sport locally knew this about her. The team coach told her not to crank her nosebands so tight (they were brutally tight) and she refused… that was at the Olympics.

Now when I see riders abusing their horses in public, I assume they do far worse at home.

[blue_heron]

And neither of them should have been passed either… Multiple horses weren’t looking great at the job, and after a tough xc, that’s unfortunately to be expected. they should have been pulled up, but we’re talking about OT right now.

[Fat_Dinah]

I am going to start a new thread on Olympic team selectipn. So new folks don’t have to go thru all this, as fascinating as it is.

[Equibrit]

Talk about sore losers ?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I finally caught up with the livestream, and that was awful to see! I must confess, I don’t recall ever seeing any other rider legit fall off and not be able to complete a 5* (or any major livestreamed horse trial) because of stadium. A few who have lost it in the showjumping phase, but this!

Especially after she was able to survive the Hunger Games of the 4* here!

[simc24]

Re: all of this talk about OT’s horsemanship (or lackthereof). There are many, many documented cases of top competitors in all 3 Olympic sports that are abusive towards their animals. It clearly exists, and somehow, in a way I don’t understand, some horses do seem handle the abuse “well” and still come out on top. I would not use whether a horse performs well or not as a gauge of rider abuse.

We all make mistakes with our horses that we regret, and I would be quick to forgive if I saw a teenager or young adult in a high pressure situation lose their temper and take out it on their horse. If you say it never happened to you, I’d call you a liar. We feel bad, horrible, and we move on and vow to do better. But when a middle aged man who’s been running the biggest tracks in the world for many years does it? Well, a leopard never changes its spots.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

I searched out a Tokyo 2020 thread I remembered starting a looong time ago with thoughts of possibly bumping it, but most of the posts don’t seem especially relevant any more and I haven’t checked the links Eventing at Tokyo 2020

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

The whole substitution aspect is a great big question mark as well.

[Jealoushe]

Please share these many many examples of abusive eventers who have had long term success with factual proof they were abusive throughout their career. Modern Eventing, so after 2000 please.

[Jealoushe]

Well shame on everyone who stood by and watched too.

[skrosenthal]

I don’t know why this is coming up as my quote, but I didn’t say it!

[Blugal]

That’s kind of the problem I’m talking about. In public, the rider can put on the charm… kiss the horse on the nose… be put on a much-lauded documentary show (people are still sharing it on FB 25 years later). If they were put on the Olympic team, you can understand how the nobodies will have no influence and many who aren’t in the know are going to look up to and admire that rider.

Doesn’t change what happened at the barn behind closed doors.

[blue_heron]

I’m not sure why you feel so personally affected by this. I think what has been rehashed is that people this invested in the sport at this level are ultra-competitive and sometimes the “need” to win or the stress of having people excited for you causes people to make poor choices regarding horse welfare. There’s also an ego component, and we know ego and horses rarely go well together. I just saw a lot of ego this weekend I would rather not have seen, and OT’s trot up was one of them. There were other horses, IMO, that should have been pulled in the jog yesterday morning.

Horses are tolerant creatures, and the threat of a lost pay check or bad mouthing can make people pretty tolerant, too. I’m not claiming anyone is being abusive at LRK or at home, but it’s dumb to sit around and pretend it doesn’t happen because grooms wouldn’t allow it to, or a horse wouldn’t put up with it.