LK3DE Live Stream Chat

[JenJ]

I was a spectator at Rolex 10+ years ago when a rider presented a very lame horse at the vet check. the horse had a big swollen knee. this horse wasn’t stiff or slightly questionable, most of the spectators gasped and groaned watching that horse trot.

the ground jury stopped her on the jog … “Molly, stop, Molly, no, just walk”, as she kept trying to make the poor horse trot.

Ollie will probably not suffer greatly from his “poor horsemanship” yesterday, I wonder if any owner trusted their horse to Molly after that day.

[Jealoushe]

MJ was getting married! He’s had a great start to his season.

Tsesterleg hadn’t been showjumping clean. That’s an issue for Tokyo. The other issue is someone being too competitive and making mistakes like the fall at the end of the course.

That being said I think BM and Pd have been picked for the team a long time ago.

[Jealoushe]

How do they get world experience when they are never given the chance.

There are only 3 team spots this year. Are they going to play the same game and then yet again we have the same results and no younger ones or less experienced getting the experience.

I would love to see;

Doug and Vandiver
Will Coleman and Tight Lines
Tami and Maui Baum
Phil as the trail blazer

Colleen Loach for Canada

[punchy]

I don’t see how they can’t pick Tamie, not sure why you don’t think Mai Baum won’t stay sound.

I agree ML had a really nice xc round, I would put her behind Tamie if I was picking the team. But although ML rode bold to the fences and through the combinations, she was really slow on the gallops. A question for me is whether she can put the pedal down without effecting the rideability of that mare.

I thought Boyd was stupid for trying to fly out of the water and get the long spot on Thomas. That was riding perfectly nicely on a steadier 3. If my rider crashed my good horse because he was playing ego games with the Kiwis I’d be pissed.

[Texarkana]

@Jealoushe

How do they get world experience when they are never given the chance.

There are only 3 team spots this year. Are they going to play the same game and then yet again we have the same results and no younger ones or less experienced getting the experience.

I would love to see;

Doug and Vandiver
Will Coleman and Tight Lines
Tami and Maui Baum
Phil as the trail blazer

Colleen Loach for Canada

Do we go to win or do we go to “rebuild” and “gain experience?”

My problem with trying to develop riders at the Olympics is that your investment may not pay off, especially in eventing where it’s rare for a horse to get two cracks at the Olympics.

I think having a second 5* is exactly what we need to catch back up. Put our riders in more challenging, high pressure situations and I would assume the cream would be forced to rise.

[Jealoushe]

Yes and courses like these ones that riders have to get ballsy and ride smart under pressure.

Kyle Carter posted some course thoughts on FB which I thought were interesting:

So headed home after a long weekend and wanted to give my observations on Kentucky. I will be writing a recap for the Cronical some time this week I believe. I will simply discuss the 4 star here short as I hate typing. The course was obviously difficult and had plenty to do. Derek asked pretty much every question you can ask and I thought that was correct at this type of competition. Most courses we go to are now stocked full of portables that get moved around to ask the same questions. Here we actually had a proper bank down. A proper coffin type jump plus actual terrain that was used appropriately. Plus the usual narrow and corner questions. I have felt for a while that our courses are not asking traditional style questions and yet at the top level thats what we see. I felt the lines were made too long in a couple of places and I know the idea is to “get people riding forward” but if it is not achievable it has the opposite effect. The bank down to the narrow had the horses standing well off the narrow no matter how strongly it was ridden that was observing and having riden it. I think it needed to be 5 feet closer or longer. I would criticize myself or other riders if they took off that far from a similar jump in an open field so it’s fair to say it’s safe to say it here. The asks were continuous as they probably should be to be at a feature site. My horse came in having done plenty of events at this and a lower levels and I feel she was prepared. Obviously I separated from her in the last water and have studied the film and have a good idea why. But you shouldn’t fall off and upright horse, if I can say it to myself don’t be offended when I say it to you. Now as to the footing…it was,perfect. Typical Kentucky footing I’ve posted pictures I took yesterday. I went out and walked after the show because it gives you information that is often unavailable in the moment. If you understudded maybe you slipped. Ask people with milage on this site if your green we always are willing to suggest. Slipping happens for many reasons but if you pull and are unbalanced your horse they will likely slip. If your horse tries to stop they will slip. If you are missing the distance and force them to adjust hard, yep they are more likely to slip. Your job is to ride the conditions but if these were the conditions and footing that you struggled with? Better get to work because it gets worse. This was beautiful as far as the footing. Again I rewalk to learn from the course knowing is really how we solve the problems we face. The one picture of my hat shows where most horses arrived at the narrow after the bank, I believe that distances matter so for me I think he got that one wrong. Nobody is perfect

Now I think our sport needs to ask more permanent questions at the regular shows not many places invest in that anymore. It’s expensive but so are all these portables.
ie: banks into water in our area are becoming rare, Weldon walls (ditch and walls) are almost nonexistent until intermediate and others questions. These pictures of the ground were selected at random around the xc.
Now I failed here I almost got it done and didn’t. My horse felt strong and confident but she has a lot of time under her belt. I still failed, that’s sport. She’s super and I learned more about her here and will use that going forward. I love her and make no bones about that, it shapes my choices for her and I’m not to proud to make difficult decisions for her. Maybe I don’t “have what it takes anymore” I think it is just I’m lucky to be here and know it. I’m also fortunate enough to have the right team of owners that allow me to make those choices. Lucky me. Thank you to my supporters the list is long but I really appreciate it.
Ward Edwards
Christy Edwards
Mikki Johansen
Jennifer Wiedrick
Darla Saxe and Wayne
Janet Wilkerson
Karen and Chris Hughes (who don’t follow me anymore because I has to many liberals on my page​:joy:)
And others
All the sponsors who have helped us to get here and to where this leads.
My wife I don’t know how she does it but I know she’s my secret weapon because she can tell me the truth and still support me when I go swimming that’s a hard thing to do!!
Failure happens and when I see the people spin the reality on social media it creates a false reality that the world at large makes assessments on and the call for change get based upon that, so let’s be honest with our selves. I would pay more to ride in the conditions that we had on Saturday because they were almost ideal. Ride what you are presented with that’s outdoor sport.
Know who you are and ride and accordingly.

[atl_hunter]

For some of us it’s hard to cheer on a person who lacks the horsemanship of other competitors. How did he have two horses lose a shoe on course? And why did he continue on? One horse was spun. Sorry, but I can’t really cheer on a guy who ran a shoeless horse on course, tried to jog and obviously lame horse and still attempt to compete with it. You may be okay with that, and that’s fine - you’re entitled to your opinion just as others are entitled to theirs.

I also agree that it’s a bit pathetic that some riders need multiple horses, knowing that it’s likely that one won’t make it through. That goes for OT and Boyd. And that says a lot about this sport when two top riders can’t get their horses through.

[Leprechaun]

All of this about Ollie is kind of outrageous. Quantum Leap was no more sound & was passed. Leah G.’s horse & Singapore weren’t looking great either but were passed.

The bigger picture is that we, again, got our asses handed to us by UK based riders. They had less of a Spring season than we’ve had & still brought all of their horses home from a too tough xc course with clean jumping & minimal time.

[Jealoushe]

Are you familiar with Eventing? Losing a shoe happens in every event at every level, sometimes in all of them at every event. That’s why farriers are there. It’s part of the sport. Like blowing a tire in a car race.

They can easily continue without shoes. It makes the riders job way harder but horses are actually designed to run without shoes, the shoes aren’t a big deal to lose. You will only see someone pull up over a shoe if the shoe is twisted or the horse is unsound and you can feel it or if the horse is losing confidence.

If you watched Ollies ride you can see the horse was extremely confident despite the absolute downpour, slippy ground and freezing temps.

Also the multiple horse comment. Not sure what you mean by “need”. This is their life and profession. Getting to a 5* is a HUGE accomplishment and such a rarity. If you have a horse that is fit and ready and qualified you don’t miss the opportunity especially when there hasn’t been a 5* here in two years! Many eventers have multiple horses at the upper levels running.

[Darkwave]

@Jealoushe

Losing a shoe happens in every event at every level, sometimes in all of them at every event. That’s why farriers are there. It’s part of the sport. Like blowing a tire in a car race.

It happens in jumpers as well. If the horse feels fine, you keep going and put it on after.

Horses pull shoes while turned out all the time. IME they don’t stand still in the field until the shoe is fixed - they keep playing and engaging in the activities that likely resulted in the shoe being lost to begin with…

[skrosenthal]

Right. This is the point. We don’t have anyone who can do what the Prices did this weekend, and turn in that kind of consistency. We just don’t right now. Doug and Quinn may be closest, honestly.

[Marigold]

@Larksmom

I see Boyd, Tammie and Liz as having the best chance of a good dressage score and being able to get around.

Phillip’s performance this weekend should not be overlooked. I haven’t always been a fan of the horse’s way of going, but he looked reasonable this weekend, and Phillip put up a decent dressage score and added just a handful of cross-country time to it. Sure, we’re getting bored of seeing his name on the roster, but that’s not his fault. He put up exactly the performance you are looking for from a team rider. Tokyo will not have a drop score, and I think people are seriously underestimating what that will do. Above all else, cross country reliability needs to be the priority of the day.

For me, as boring as it is, I think the US sends Boyd and Phillip, no brainer (no I’m not excited about it, but I think that’s what the facts say). The third spot could be Doug, Tamie, Liz, Lauren, or Buck - they all have their pros and cons. The interesting question for me is which horse Boyd gets sent on. QC Diamantaire, Mama’s Magic Way, and Off the Record won’t be going to Tokyo, but for me they made strong cases for consideration in a couple years’ time. Someone needs to start funding Meghan O’Donoghue.

On a personal note, while I disagree with the lack of drop score because I think it introduces more chance variation than is necessarily fair in our sport (one misplaced stud or thrown shoe and the whole game is blown), I do like how much emphasis will be placed onto good cross-country riding. It doesn’t matter what you can put up in the first phase. If your entire team can’t jump all the jumps on the first try, you won’t be coming home with a medal. It is stark how few teams have finished all their riders with no cross country jumping penalties at championships, even looking back through all of eventing history. This is going to be interesting (assuming it runs at all).

[Jealoushe]

I also think they need Phil for the trailblazer position. They really don’t have anyone more experienced who can perform under pressure. He’s the pillar they need imo.

[Willesdon]

A couple of days after Burghley 2018, I sat at a BE100 fence watching Tim Price in the warm up ring trying to persuade a very reluctant young horse over a practice fence. I congratulated him on his Burghley win as he stopped close by and his response was “Thank you. This is my daily reality (indicating his difficult young horse with a wry smile), a 5* is only the icing on the cake”.

It is in the daily grind that skills and resolve are honed and relationships built. OT has had his winner since the horse was 4 and they have come up the ranks together.

Many top American riders seem to buy in made horses - Shamwari, Mr Medicott - and I’m not certain that is a good strategy in eventing.

[Darkwave]

@Willesdon

Many top American riders seem to buy in made horses - Shamwari, Mr Medicott - and I’m not certain that is a good strategy in eventing.

I believe that both Mai Baum and Vandiver are American-developed.

Are there any current contenders for the US team that were developed outside of the US?

[Blugal]

@Willesdon

Many top American riders seem to buy in made horses - Shamwari, Mr Medicott - and I’m not certain that is a good strategy in eventing.

The two you picked were good horses…Shamwari finished 7th at WEG with Boyd. Mr. Medicott did 2 Olympics with different riders for the US. KOC finished top 10 with him.

Anyway… Jonelle’s horse Grovine de Reve was formerly ridden by Dan Jocelyn at WEG. Seems Jonelle got a good tune from him this weekend.

OT took over rides from Andrew Nicholson, did very well with them.

I don’t think it’s only a case of a partnership from 4 years old. It’s riding skills and whether that horse and rider pair can mesh.

[beowulf]

Non-Americans are just as guilty as buying horses produced by other riders. Where UK and EU have US riders beat is the affordability and access to dozens of events within short distance of one another.

To side track, I want a “what they’re wearing” column for all the tack this weekend. I want to know who is wearing what and the whys Loved some of the bridles I saw in the jog, saw some interesting and cool tack on XC including some pads and boots.

[atl_hunter]

Yes, I am. And I think it’s sad that it is expected that shoes come flying off at every level at every event. That says an awful lot about the sport. It’s another reason why so many take issue with this discipline.

I know that Darkwave mentioned it happens in the jumpers “all the time.” It doesn’t happen “all the time.” My hunter lost a shoe on course in hunters, so yes I know it happens. But no, it doesn’t happen constantly and shoes aren’t flying off left and right. Funny that some get so defensive about this sport and think because “it happens” that somehow it’s just ok. That is part of the problem - who would do that to their horse several times a year? People like you I guess?

Asking people if they are familiar with the sport is a cop out. We are familiar with it. We just don’t like what it’s become - a showjumping test on an eventing course where nobody seems to care whether or not it was appropriate to proceeed on a day of extreme conditions because “it’s an OLYMPIC YEAR!”

[Jealoushe]

I asked because I would expect anyone who is familiar with Eventing to know this. I’m shocked anyone who events has an issue with this.

What’s your issue with shoes coming off? Can you elaborate how you find this is an issue with the sport? I’m genuinely asking because I’m not understanding where you are coming from.

A lot of these horses are reset the night before for XC or right before with welded on studs. They are running in deep mud and slick grass at times. It would be ridiculous to expect horses shoes to not come off.

People like me are ok with shoes coming off?

Yeah I guess people like me are ok with it because I’m aware of how it’s a complete non issue and doesn’t cause the horses any issue either. What a strange argument.

If we didn’t event in the rain we wouldn’t get to event at all. I’m thinking Eventing might not be the sport for you.

[Blugal]

@atl_hunter

whether or not it was appropriate to proceeed on a day of extreme conditions

The first 2/3 of the 5* competitors did not compete in the rain. There were issues spread throughout the class and many of them weren’t during the rain.

Did you read Kyle Carter’s post about the footing? If you were able to go on Facebook (as I did), you could see his photos of the ground after all competitors had run on it. It was amazingly good. Most issues I saw with slipping were in the 4*S and usually because the rider had not set the horse up well for something - then a slip occurred.