My friend was the jump judge at Petes Hollow and while Clayton and FE Stormtrooper jumped in and out nicely, the horse crumpled on landing and just couldn’t get his feet back under him. They both went sliding for quite a bit but got right back up.
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Ah, thank you, sounds quite similar to Fernhill Wishes. I will update my original post.
Very similar yes but Stormtropper actually got over the second brush where as Fernhill Wishes rotated over the second brush.
This is a discussion, right? Analyzing rides, data, facts…these are all a part of the process of enjoying the sport. Whether you’re bored of me or not, cheeky or not, I am free to participate in the discussion, and you are free to ignore me or engage with me. That’s how discussions roll 
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Re: Mark Phillips’ comments, they are his opinion column which is only available to Horse & Hound subscribers.
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I have my own issues with Boyd, but I’m not entirely sure the falls were all his fault. The one on Long Island T, if you watch some helmet cam videos of that brush jump after the bank, it looks awkward AF. Add on that he was one of the first ones out and no one was really sure how it would ride yet, I’m not surprised he had problems at it. I really just think that was a really hard question that very few horses actually jumped nicely, so in my mind everyone gets a pass for that one. As for Tsetserleg, the fact that WFP had the exact same fall (who is probably one of the most experienced in the field, and a 14 or whatever the number is time 5* winner) makes me feel much less judgey about it, I guess. I’m just amazed at how many people have been almost gleeful about hating on him for two falls, given the circumstances and that so many others also had problems. Any other year, any other course, sure, but not this one.
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This is terrible.
To my eye, looks like he was an inch away from a broken neck. Very lucky. Very very lucky.
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Oh yeah, he was super lucky. The fall looked terrifying. That log made me nervous in general, horses were barely scraping over it and I saw quite a few with legs that almost caught.
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Yep. All day.
So I finally got around to watching the 4* XC. I’m only 30 minutes in and am absolutely baffled that the commentators haven’t figured out all these so called refusals later in the course are simply horses sliding into the base of the fences due to slippery footing. I’m listening to JW comment on how the horses must be looking through the spread, or looking at the water when it’s plain as day that they are just plain slipping. He’s even commented a few times about how nobody is going for time. Gee Jimmy ya thing?? They might as well be running on ice out there. It’s nice to see so many pairs just retiring and saving their horses for another day. Rant over, back to the video I go.
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It was BAD. I can’t believe he made it around SJ the next day after landing basically on his head, and much as I’ve heard some jokes about whether than explains why he was posting pictures of himself in an ice bath on Instagram, I’d be really surprised if he didn’t have a concussion of some stripe
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Exactly. Head injuries can cause errors in judgment, which puts both horse and rider at risk. The selection committee knows Boyd has the right ingredients (string of capable horses, competitive dressage scores, and ability to go clear and make time) to be almost a sure bet for the team, and I think he could have withdrawn and rerouted to Jersey Fresh.
TBH, if I were a selector, I would actually put more value and trust in him as a rider if he had said, “You know, I might not be okay to continue and will withdraw for the sake of my horse and my own fitness/health,” as opposed to him taking that risk. It’d show maturity and integrity on his part to do what’s right for himself and his horses. (Which he has done before, pulling up a few fences from home when his horse didn’t feel right.) Unfortunately, Duvander doesn’t seem to subscribe to the same way of thinking. 
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I think re. Boyd, I don’t know if it was his best judgement to ride in the show jumping on Sunday, but I do trust that if his horse didn’t feel right, he would not have ran. Himself, I’m not so sure. It is in the spirit of eventing to beat on people for not being tough enough and then turn around to berate people for being too tough. Surely there is an appropriate middle ground?
I have some sympathy for Boyd’s decisions on xc day. I’ve/We’ve seen plenty of riders come back and ride a second horse after one fall if they have multiple in a day, and after a second super xc ride on On Cue, why would he have any reason to think he and Tsetserleg wouldn’t manage similarly? Of course we don’t know, but I strongly disagree with the sentiment that Boyd brought three horses to LRK because he knew he was going to crash two. 
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I’m unable to watch the video @Jealoushe posted. It says “No video with supported format”. Anyone able to tell a Luddite like me how to get around that?
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Didn’t he withdraw his 4* horse before XC later that day though?
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If you’re on FB, he posted it on his main page.
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I guess I’m just surprised the Coach would support the - risk a fall if it means winning - attitude - and very openly. Imo that’s not a good look for Eventing. Not sure if readers here saw comments elsewhere but it wasn’t a good day for the public appearance of Eventing. Twitter was a complete ML bash and pile on. Facebook comment threads were after eventers for abusive courses and riding.
So to have the US coach saying these things… well it doesn’t make us look like we actually care about stopping horse falls and making the sport safer and holding riders responsible. Instead riders are praised for these choices.
Is it really good to risk a fall if it means you might win? Do readers here support that? I’m genuinely curious.
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I didn’t see Twitter, but I did see ML’s round. While she’s not my favourite rider in general (for reasons that definitely don’t need rehashing at this point), I thought she put in a very appropriate round for where she and the horse were at on Saturday. It showed good judgement and both she and the horse looked well within themselves and like they were having a grand old time in the bluegrass. What did Twitter find upsetting about that?
Well, taking your question exactly as it’s written, I suppose I do support that insofar as every time I leave the start box I risk a fall. If you mean “do you support riding around with a concussion or on a horse you suspect should not be at the level because it means you might win”, no, I very much do not support that. Eventing is and always will be risky, but we have an obligation to ourselves, our horses, our fellow competitors, the organizers, the people watching, and the community as a whole not to increase that risk, be that through responsible training, prep, and horse selection or through good decision-making on the day.
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Okay, so this is all kind of an interesting discussion - Jealoushe while this is technically a reply to you because your comment is what got me thinking, it’s as much directed to the thread broadly.
Now - keep in mind, I’m not an actively competing eventer myself, biggest thing I’ve ever jumped were low crossrails, I’ve not really ridden regularly in probably closing in on 5 years now (in my late 20s, typical “life got in the way” scenario where I’m not financially in a place where I can really afford to ride the way I would like to) and I’m just someone who’s followed the sport for several years albeit I have also written for some equestrian websites (I will not elaborate beyond that as to my journalism experience in or out of the horse world as I’d like to keep a low profile and not have my account here affiliated with my actual work or real name) covering various sports and topics within them.
I’ve also always been kind of a horse knowledge junkie who strives to learn as much as I can about the sport and a horse history nerd to top it off. And I grew up in a family that basically argues for sport (in a good way!) and tend to try to see both sides and keep a neutral opinion until I know more.
Personal opinions and pure personal opinions following on my part and if I get something wrong, apologies in advance (also sorry for writing a novel, haha!) and again, bear in mind that I’ve never exactly been more than an aspiring lower-level eventer myself:
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I think, all things considered, yes, the ideal is no horse falls and no rider falls but horse sports, period, come with risk. The sport itself, everything I’ve read, heard and absorbed, people I’ve interviewed regarding safety advances for stories I’ve done, I believe is overall heading in the right direction.
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Much as I love equestrian sports and eventing, I really don’t “get” why everyone seems to want the sport to go mainstream, beyond more sponsorship deals and money and fans. Beyond, more sponsors and money, there’s not a whole lot of reason for equestrian sports to need a bigger/more mainstream audience and I think at some point all equestrian sports, not just eventing, need to kind of accept that no, we’re not probably going to be popular in the US. That said - I do understand wanting to grow and diversify the sport, generally, I just think we need to better define “mainstream” popularity because face it we’re probably never even going to be on the same plane of popularity as soccer in the US.
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Listened to the USEA podcast yesterday w/Duvander talking. Not sure what I think, personally I’m trying to keep an open mind as if I’m not mistaken this is really his first Olympic year as US eventing team coach…he came on board as coach in, what, 2019, 2018? My interpretation, again, purely mine, don’t flame - I didn’t get the sense that he was condoning risk-taking generally, in the extreme sense of “it’s okay if horses and riders fall” so much as acknowledging that sometimes you have to take a chance to get somewhere. That said, I see where those who feel what he said isn’t a good attitude are coming from, I think I’m just kind of in camp “cut some slack for the still relatively new coach.” If I’m incorrect and this isn’t his first Olympics as the US coach, then I apologize but I recall O’Connor being coach in '16, so.
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I’d say, and this is hypocritical of me given I’m replying to this thread, generally, that everyone really just needs to tune out the aspects of a discussion they don’t like, don’t find thought provoking and ignore the social media peanut gallery. People getting up in arms about ML isn’t going to change anytime soon, the irony to me of it all is everyone gets bent out of shape when she leads after dressage and then she never, that I can recall, seems to actually do well in the other phases so it starts seeming like a lot of hullabaloo over nothing and the only way something is going to change is if the powers that be decide to take action against any of the (alleged) abuse and so far they haven’t.
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Boyd - okay, I’m biased, I’m a fan. I don’t know the man well beyond interviewing him in my capacity as a journalist, from that one experience, he seems like an okay guy and I haven’t heard anything too terrible about his horsemanship beyond concerns about how he’s always seeming to buy a new 5* horse and the Crackerjack incident a few years ago. I’ve been a fan since the Neville Bardos 2011-12 era. Agree entirely with the assessment that if it was his horse that didn’t feel right, he’d probably have withdrawn. He did withdraw from the XC 4* but keep in mind that was after the second fall, so at that point, yes, he obviously didn’t want to risk it, and I think whoever said he didn’t have much reason to expect a fall on Thomas/Tsetserleg after XC riding On Cue has a point. I’m not going to argue whether he should or shouldn’t have withdrawn from stadium w/On Cue as that’s a moot point and not something for me to judge.
Ultimately, speaking strictly as a fan who hasn’t and never will probably ride at anything approaching the upper levels, and as someone who has followed the conversations around horse and rider safety for a few years and does think it’s slowly but surely evolving in the right direction, I can’t say I’m completely disappointed in this year’s LRK3DE. Yes, we still had falls, but at the end of the day, no one, horse or rider, had to leave in an ambulance which, while again, not perfect, shows that the sport is evolving in the right general direction.
EDIT POINT 4 BEFORE IT’S MISCONSTRUED: I don’t condone ML’s horsemanship in any way. Just saying it’s a bit ironic to me everyone gets bent out of shape every time she leads after dressage and I can’t specifically recall her really keeping that lead through XC and Stadium. That’s all it is, nothing more, nothing less.
SECOND EDIT, POINT 4: That was just an example and my main point there was that opinions are a dime a dozen and take them with a grain of salt (that should probably go double for my own as expressed here 
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