I’m trying to understand the long and low approach. I have a horse that hasn’t been ridden in 11 years and is out of shape. I lunged her for several months before riding her again. I just encountered this approach and found some people are very against it. Basically, we’re talking about lunging the horse so that its poll is at the same level as its withers. Thoughts? Does this put them on the forehand or use the top line more, free up the back legs to swing, etc.?
I do long and low work at the end of every ride with my horse for about 5-10 minutes at all gaits. My version of long and low is having very light contact and asking the horse to stretch his neck down and a bit out so that his nose is about level with his knees. He must stay balanced and not rushed, and I use my body to do the correcting. I have pretty much always done this, and all of the horses I have had have excellent top lines, which I attribute to this work. My horse now really seems to be learning to carry himself better and in more balance since we started doing more long and low work. Having this tool available helps with relaxation as well and I go to it if I find my horse getting too nervous.
To me, the important part is the long neck, not the low neck. Horses have a sweet spot where they start to swing through their back and reach under themselves with their hind legs, and it is neither low like many people force with rigs and setting, nor short as many others like to force. (And force can be gentle, too, not necessarily mean or painful.)
I have no desire to try to train my horses to develop all their muscles for holding their head so low the weight puts them on the forehand. And for my young mare, she can now hold her head lower than she used to have to do thanks to physical development - she used to have to be on the edge of hollow to be able to lift in front at all, and now that she has matured and strengthened she can lengthen her neck more and carries it naturally lower than she did to swing and use her hind end well. The head comes back up to the verge of hollow when she collects since she’s just starting to develop that strength. Forcing it down would develop wrong muscles and potentially hurt her. Horses with different conformation may be different.
As an example, my mom’s mare is older and a Friesian cross with the very upright natural neck position. I used longe work to help her learn to use her body differently, controlling flexion and bend with a cavesson and the whip. She quickly learned to step under herself and swing through her back, and to do it adjusted herself to a much lower neck set than her default neck position.
So basically, I just look at each horse and what works for that horse - and keep in mind that different horses give a different answer based on conformation, but for all of them long instead of held in neck is a key.
Not sure why anyone would be “against it”…who are you finding that says you should not use this method?
Honestly, I don’t even consider it a method. It’s been called by a few different names, but teaching the horse “long and low” is a fundamental building block for helping incrementally strengthen the horse so that you can eventually start asking for higher levels of collection. “Long and low” is the most basic level of collection. I call it “moving round” or just plain “round”.
Correctly done, long and low doesn’t put the horse on the forehand, but either way, you cannot take an out of shape horse and immediately expect them to start shifting their weight back all the time. You must work them up slowly, building their core strength so that, in time, they can consistently lift the base of the neck and shoulder sling and allow the energy coming from the hind end forward and then over the back in a continuous cycle. THIS is what creates the nice, soft, arched neck. THIS is what creates the poll becoming the highest point. But you can’t start right off by asking for that.
In a more direct way of saying it, long and low teaches the horse how to posture his neck and lift his shoulders so that the energy coming from behind can be utilized effectively and correctly. It is the basis for building the horse up to higher levels of collection, where the poll eventually becomes the highest point, in theory.
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We’ve been working her 5 months and I’ve seen a difference in her topline and her stride is longer at the walk (just regular work with no emphasis on long and low). When I lunge at the walk, she stretches her neck forward. When I ask for a trot, she pulls her head up. The lower muscles in her neck are DEFINITELY more developed than her upper muscles.
What I took from your title was that some people were mixing up deep and low, (instead of long and low) which is a precursor of the dreaded rollkur and which is held for an extended and unnatural period of time.
Long and low will bring you to the stretchy trot, needed in the tests. Netg speaks of the sweet spot.
[QUOTE=Dressage59;8538686]
We’ve been working her 5 months and I’ve seen a difference in her topline and her stride is longer at the walk (just regular work with no emphasis on long and low). When I lunge at the walk, she stretches her neck forward. When I ask for a trot, she pulls her head up. The lower muscles in her neck are DEFINITELY more developed than her upper muscles.[/QUOTE]
It’s going to take some time for those muscles to soften and for the correct LIFTING muscles to build up. Those muscles on the underside of her neck are helping her brace and hork her front end up instead of using her abs to lift her back.
I really like starting on a 20 or 30 m. circle, opening inside rein, keep them straight with the outside rein and bump them off the inside leg. When you get that right, the poll drops and the neck softens. Then go up to trot from there. Most of the time they’ll maintain it for a couple strides then go back to hollowing out. Down transition and repeat. You’d be surprised how quickly they start to get it.
[QUOTE=CatchMeIfUCan;8538672]
I do long and low work at the end of every ride with my horse for about 5-10 minutes at all gaits. My version of long and low is having very light contact and asking the horse to stretch his neck down and a bit out so that his nose is about level with his knees. He must stay balanced and not rushed, and I use my body to do the correcting. I have pretty much always done this, and all of the horses I have had have excellent top lines, which I attribute to this work. My horse now really seems to be learning to carry himself better and in more balance since we started doing more long and low work. Having this tool available helps with relaxation as well and I go to it if I find my horse getting too nervous.[/QUOTE]
Me too, exactly this way. Getting the back and neck stretched is healthy. You need to keep their nose out to stretch the right areas.
Work on a long rein (long and low with some contact) at the beginning of a session for me is a stretching, warm up exercise. Getting the horse more to raise his back than just lower his head and neck. I use it as a reward break during the lesson between movement work (less contact-more of a free walk-shift into neutral) and at the end of the session as a cool down, relaxation, reward.
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The most important thing is to keep the horse pushing from behind and up in his withers. Then he is doing correct long and low. Different horses work best at different degrees of “lowness”, and that also changes day to day and certainly as the horse develops strength. At the start there may be times of BTV as you try to encourage lifting the withers. Don’t live there. As strength improves, so will this.
Low work has worked wonders with all the horses in my trainers barn. Some are friesian crosses with high neck sets. Others are Iberians with similar conformation. Most recently, my new Luso who came hiding behind the bit, in a very nice posed frame. At 14, I was not sure if this could be changed. Two months later he is developing real push from behind and accepting contact with a longer neck. 
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If the lower neck muscles are more built the horse is being worked incorrectly and this will continue to happen.
When worked correctly the top line will be more pronounced with no muscle underneath.
Are you lunging with side reins or are you just running around at the end of a rope? I would say you are doing the latter. JMHO.
Side reins do not kill and maim horses. Lungers who don’t know how to use side reins kill and maim horses. If you don’t know how to use them you need to be taught in person. You NEVER pull a horse in with side reins. To start with it looks like they are not working. If you have them at the right length after a week of lunging you will see a difference without shortening the reins to make a difference.
[QUOTE=Dressage59;8538686]
We’ve been working her 5 months and I’ve seen a difference in her topline and her stride is longer at the walk (just regular work with no emphasis on long and low). When I lunge at the walk, she stretches her neck forward. When I ask for a trot, she pulls her head up. The lower muscles in her neck are DEFINITELY more developed than her upper muscles.[/QUOTE]
It’s like, if you were going to start lifting weights, would you do it properly from the get-go, or do it improperly for months on end because you hadn’t done it for 11 years?
Lunging for -months-…that’s a long time. Even when starting youngsters, they are not lunged for months. They are introduced to side reins fairly early on, learn to go on contact, be balanced and learn to carry themselves and use their backs. Then rider gets on, horse learns balance with the rider and is eventually ridden over its back. The idea is to develop muscles properly from the beginning so that the horse can keep it’s back up and carry the rider.
If properly applied and adjusted side reins were used and muscles were correctly developed, a horse should not be pulling it’s head up. Muscles at the base of the neck should not be more developed than upper muscles, it would be the other way around. Especially after months of lunging.
[QUOTE=Dressage59;8538644]
I’m trying to understand the long and low approach. I have a horse that hasn’t been ridden in 11 years and is out of shape. I lunged her for several months before riding her again. I just encountered this approach and found some people are very against it. Basically, we’re talking about lunging the horse so that its poll is at the same level as its withers. Thoughts? Does this put them on the forehand or use the top line more, free up the back legs to swing, etc.?[/QUOTE]
It’s the back that you want to swing, not the back legs.
You mention this for lunging. If the poll is the same level as the withers, side reins would not be adjusted correctly. They’d be either too low on the girth/surcingle, or horse’s face would be behind the vertical. Horse would be tipping on the forehand, back legs not coming through. Withers and poll need to be up for hind legs to come through and for the back to be able to swing.
Poll should be highest point (not 3rd vertebrae), face slightly in front or on the vertical, side reins are level (not sloping downhill and not sloping uphill).
Getting a horse to use it’s back and top line well is usually easier done by the rider than lunging.
Thank you! That explains so much and as she’s just getting back in work, I want to do it right.
Ohh, interesting. I had a well known trainer give me a lesson on lunging with side reins. She tightened the side reins and then advised me to slowly move them up the surcingle so that they mimicked reins, which I did. Since then, I’ve stopped doing this. Any more insights into use of side reins? Thanks for the info.
[QUOTE=Dressage59;8539276]
Ohh, interesting. I had a well known trainer give me a lesson on lunging with side reins. She tightened the side reins and then advised me to slowly move them up the surcingle so that they mimicked reins, which I did. Since then, I’ve stopped doing this. Any more insights into use of side reins? Thanks for the info.[/QUOTE]
It really depends on your horse. Mine has a very upright neck and can get tight through the throatlatch. I buckle them low on the girth (so they go over his elbows) and have them buckled so that when he is standing in his natural head position, they are loose and on the same hole on both sides. When I lunge, I treat the lunge line like and inside rein and ask him to bend, and this causes the outside side rein to be a bit more taut. My whole goal is to get him to stretch out and down as that is what he struggles with. I only do about 5 minutes each side as a warm up before I get in. I am still paranoid about the wear and tear though!
When I discovered this method I first allowed her to learn to stretch out without side reins. You don’t need side reins for your horse to learn to do this. Then I put long side reins on to get her to do the same with contact and seek contact. I learned a lot from the ArttoRide YouTube channel. (Many people don’t like it so choose for yourself whether you want to incorporate these methods).
Long and low has been used by many riders as a warm up, It involves sending the horse actively forward into a light steady contact that allow them to lower their head, nose slightly in front of the vertical, in order to encourage them to loosen and swing their backs.
Bring your own head up and back and see how your back feels, the drop your head forward a bit and notice the difference.
Read any dressage book written before 1911, and you won’t find it mentioned.
When the majority of riding horses were killed in battle during WWI, riding horses were then made from a lot more draft and cart horse types. This prompted a need for new strategies to accommodate their unideal conformation. One of these strategies being a topline elongated and seeking the bit FDO.
I personally don’t find “long and low” as a regularly used tool in my toolbox, except in walk, but always starting from a raised outline and seeking down and out with lifted base of the neck.
Great! I appreciate this. I’m working 20 m circles and when I half halt, supple on the inside, she drops her head - just beautiful. Of course, then it pops back up. I’ve been doing this at the trot. Is it more beneficial to do it at the walk until she can hold it?
