I don’t mean heels that have been shortened…where there is an appearance of change.
I am looking for photos where the angle of the tubules of the heel has actually changed. The way the hoof grows out of the hairline
i am not so much interested in toe angles-just heels.
Thank you!
Carrying this farther…adding the reason for my inquiry…
I think underrun heels are managed-and often managed very well…that is not what I am debating (just to be clear).
I am beginning to believe (which is why I went through all the photos I have and started looking over case studies on websites from all different ‘methods’) that the angle of growth at the heels is genetic or set at some point shortly after birth.
The angle, if shallow, will cause ‘underrun heels’ if allowed to grow and grow…a horse gets trimmed and the ground contact point is brought back (because the heel trimmed shorter)…if you just look at how angles work, a shorter heel will bring the ground contact point back…
BUT if you look at any photo, the angle that the heels comes out is still the same.
I have photos of mine for many years (and over many methods) and I have short heels and longer heels-but at any point in time if you carry the angle of the short heels out, they are at the same angle as the longer heel.
I don’t know why but suspect it is just how the foot is made-like all of us have different shaped feet-or may be connected to the genetic makeup of the internal structures.
Or perhaps it can be influenced in the first few days of a foal, maybe weeks or a couple of months…I don’t have photos that go back that far.
I don’t think it ‘matters’ because it is managed…but I don’t believe it is ‘cured’…
I have been discussing this with a friend that has been trimming for more years than I with literally hundreds of horses in her data base-she has observed the same thing.
Farriers, trimmers? anyone?
I’ve pinged a friend whom I believe has a good set of before/after pictures 
I bet the actual angle is the same. 
Literally hundreds and thousands of photos…not one.
LF http://tinypic.com/r/2i9jbxt/7
RF http://tinypic.com/r/3583nk7/7
There is a time-span of 2 years between the before-after shots. Opinions?
The photos are not taken at the same angle so impossible to say.
Even small angle changes make huge distortions in photos-to see something like this they need to be dead center to the hoof…shifting a little can make a huge difference in the heel angle.
I am not saying the feet do not look better-they do!! This is just a specific thing I am looking for.
I believe the ‘fluff’ in the back of the foot can look better-but that actual tubule is the same.
In other words, if you let the heels grow again, I bet they would all show the same heel angle.
Agreed. I should try and get some new photos at a better angle because it has been about 3 years since I have taken any of this particular horse… it is an interesting idea.
Edit to add: this particular horse is now chronically lame in RF… I wonder the reduced weight bearing at rest would alter the angle. Have you noticed anything like that in a horse that dramatically changes the way it weight bears most of the time?
Does this help?
RF 2007 sans shoe… he was ripping them off pretty regular then.
I wish I had some from 2010/11…there’s even more improvement and he’s no longer pulling shoes.
Thanks for the pics I need to get some I have a four year old who has this problem and I hate his feet. (under slug heels )not the quality of his feet. I finally found a farrier that would address this problem as to telling me he is just a big boy as he got older this problem had become more and more obvious so now Im in my first year of trying to fix the problem. How long does this process with shoes take? I now have my boy trimmed and reset every four weeks. It is expensive but he does keep shoes on and I do see a difference.
Left front might be a better example.
While I see a huge difference in toe/heel length, you’re right, I don’t really see a change in the hair line.
BHK there looks to be a definite difference in the angle of the heel.
i disagree-it is an illusion because of a change in the hairline-the actual growth of the tubule out of the hairline is the same.
Again-not saying the hooves do not look better or are not healthier-that is not my point.
I think the distinction is important as to whether the tubule orientation is what changes vs. something else.
If you measure the angles they are indeed different.
measure to what? The ground-that is the illusion.
I am talking direction of growth out of the hairline.
The entire capsule may have changed or rotated-that is the illusion-but how each tubule comes out of the hairline-it has not.
I don’t mean this next comment to sound snotty-but really, keep looking-it will jump out at you-sort of like those photos of seeing a man in leaves (or whatever).
The ‘change in angle’ is not from a change in the tubules…it is from something else-in the internal structures, I don’t know-but it is not the actual ‘horn’
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/caballus/DCP_1267.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/caballus/DCP_1428.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/caballus/KyleRFside5-06-05sm.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/caballus/KylesmLF1-06.jpg
Don’t know if this is what you wanted. The bottom set, that hoof was said to ‘not grow heel’ … for over 7 years the heels had not been trimmed and the horse, when I pulled the shoes, was ‘retired’ and that was the only reason the owner had the (pads,wedges) shoes pulled. The horse had been lame for almost all of those 7 years. Various farriers, 3 vets – finally vet said just pull the shoes. Well, lo and behold, the heels, of course, HAD grown … and they reached almost the entire length of the hoof. Just smashed. The hoof never regained its full ‘thickness’ from ground to hairline – was always a bit low. But you can see the heels did come back and the horse went sound again. (24 years old!) Owner rode him a couple times but then said he was sooooooooo forward he couldn’t sit his trot anymore and then he got bucked off (feel-good buck!) so then didn’t ride him anymore after that. But maintained the hooves for several years following and the horse remained sound.
Why would the ground be an illusion? If it’s level it’s a constant.
[QUOTE=LMH;5753376]
The ‘change in angle’ is not from a change in the tubules…it is from something else-in the internal structures, I don’t know-but it is not the actual ‘horn’[/QUOTE] I think its a simple case of the hooves rebuilding healthier and stronger as the mechanics of the hooves are put into proper place (and assuming diet and husbandry are what they should be) … I’ve found that low, long forward heels USUALLY begin to thin in the soles. Plus, the bars, being part of the heel structure/platform, also migrate and grow therefore they cannot do their job for supporting the hoof. Neither can the quarters as they, too, are deformed … the hoof, as a whole, simple collapses. But as the hoof is brought back into good form and proper functioning it begins to then restructure itself from the foot. The frog builds up again, the DC begins to strengthen, the sole thickens and callouses, the breakover is in the right place, the COA is in the proper place etc. etc. Good form = good functioning = good form = good functioning etc. etc.
I think I can see what LMH is saying, if you really just look at the top of the hoof in before and after you can see the hoof wants to grow the same way in both pictures. What can be misleading I think is the distortion of the capsule in the before pictures where the entire capsule is so long.
Would the point you are trying to make is that some horses are just more predisposed to underrun heals? Because I would believe it that without proper management these horses will have underrun heals.
Can you photoshop that so I can see?
I actually think you are still missing where I am talking about
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