[QUOTE=LMH;5754418]
leah takes a huge bow and does parage wave from the soapbox
Thank you Gwen!!:D[/QUOTE]Again - you’re welcome. Most times its pretty tough swimming against the current … any help is always afforded.
[QUOTE=LMH;5754427]
Even in a pasture, some horses will always organize with the same foot forward-my filly does this and has a hi-lo going on.
But this begs the question-why? Some weakness or extreme crookedness from birth? Her mama had the same thing-so a genetic crookedness?[/QUOTE] What came first? The hi-lo or the foot forward? I like seeing horses graze while they’re squared. That’s always a goal …
I really am not sure. She came to me at 5months old and it ‘happened’ after-
a theory I have discussed with others is it is (as most things it seems) metabolic.
The grazing stance (for whatever reason it happens) causes the high foot to ‘rotate’ and the low foot to ‘sink’ (in the smallest of amounts on both)
So I guess you have a body weakness, creates the stance, a metabolic issue kicks in and the hooves ‘adjust’ and then they are in that stance after.
I made changes to her diet (LESS minerals not MORE even though she is young) and it has corrected a good bit.
[QUOTE=LMH;5754357]
OK let me rephrase my request in light of the discussion-
I will stand my this theory-and am looking for photos to disprove it…
I don’t think trimming alone will ‘correct’ underrun heels. I simply don’t think trimming alone ‘corrects’ any issue.
.[/QUOTE]
at the risk of getting lambasted and insulted by such as YOU. (which I probably will now, and expect to) I must say…
wouldnt your time be better spent educating yourself on these issues, that you clearly do not know much about?
perhaps ride with a really good farrier for several months (just a suggestion)
of course I have fixed under-run by just trimming (DUH). and so has the people who taught me. However, I did not get before and after pictures, just to prove to some egotistical “hoof person” that it can be done. You are just gonna have to my word for it, I guess. if you truly knew the mechanics of the hoof and cornet band, you could fix it too.
when you figure out how to do it, you can take your own pics
an “EDUCATED” farrier, trimmer (or whatever) worth their salt can, and has done it. YOU just dont know how. thats not MY fault or anyone elses. Educate YOURSELF
picking fights on a forum to prove you know EVERYTHING is no way to stay humble and keep learning.
have at it… insult me… patronize me, whatever… IDK (roll-eye icon)
ETA… wait… I think I do have some before and after pics… lemme get back in a second…
I’ve got my PMU girl who has always stood one foot out and that foot is a good, solid 2 club. Now she came that way at 5 months old. And no matter how much she’s trimmed she returns to it … Sooooooo, we just keep her comfy. 
Jumpin…you may want to get a new wheaties bowl! :lol:
Yours seems to be tainted! :eek:
I really did enjoy you baiting me-but I am made of rubber and you are made of glue! 
Your thoughts, however poorly presented, are appreciated-but I am sorry to say I will not take your word for it.
I will however, eagerly await your photos.
it seems they will be the first example.
These are the best p
If I remember, this was like 4-6 months later
[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g305/BearFooteFarm/lenny/8_side_AT.jpg)
[IMG]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g305/BearFooteFarm/lenny/8_oblique_AT.jpg)
A study was already done on WB foals with long legs and “small pretty heads”, and a very direct correlation was found between this conformation, and more specifically a predisposition to adopt that forward/back grazing stance with the same legs forward/back, and a hi-lo syndrome, despite very regular hoof care by the same farrier.
I can tell you my foal has adopted that stance - LF forward RF back - and it’s KILLING me to watch him do this. I am staying smack on top of his trimming to try to make sure I don’t let the LF splay or the RF grow tall heels. I HOPE as his neck lengthens he will start to splay less, or even better, “walk” like my WB gelding does.
FWIW, his mother does this splay thing too. She came to me as a 3yo with hi/lo already going on, but I have no idea how she grew up, only suspecting there was very little, if any grazing turnout for at least the last year, maybe 18 months before I got her.
Does that mean there’s a genetic component? I don’t know, I suspect there could be, but I think it’s not at all a bigger deal than, or even a major part of, horses simply being “left handed” in general. I can tell you my foal had really long legs even for a foal, and no doubt that played a role.
2 Likes
Jumping, I will offer you an unasked for lesson in photo distortion.
Certainly your photo looks like an impressive slap the football players hineys sort of success.
However, one fatal flaw-the before photo is taken forward of center-this distorts the heel to look more shallow that it actually is (there is not doubt the hoof is not so hot in the befores), then the second is taken more center.
So while impressive changes were made in the hoof form, whether the actual angle changed or the heel was just shortened can’t be determined.
The devil is always in the details…not my rule just one that is followed for accurate assessment.
Thanks for the effort. Feel free to join in the discussion again at any point.
JB have you thought of braving some body work-releasing behind the scapula on the high foot side?
That actually did wonders for Maya.
Granted she was a she and not an escaping he and she was older.
Interestingly Maya is LF high and RF low
[QUOTE=LMH;5754471]
Jumping, I will offer you an unasked for lesson in photo distortion.
Certainly your photo looks like an impressive slap the football players hineys sort of success.
However, one fatal flaw-the before photo is taken forward of center-this distorts the heel to look more shallow that it actually is (there is not doubt the hoof is not so hot in the befores), then the second is taken more center.
So while impressive changes were made in the hoof form, whether the actual angle changed or the heel was just shortened can’t be determined.
The devil is always in the details…not my rule just one that is followed for accurate assessment.
Thanks for the effort. Feel free to join in the discussion again at any point.[/QUOTE]
wow, I knew you’d try to wiggle out of this one :lol:
that was a stretch, dont you think?
you may just have to admit one day that you DONT know EVERYTHING, and continue learning
take a closer look at the tubules, they dont lie
I wish the horses under your care the best, truly I do
Are you unable to recognize and appreciate the angle of the tubules growing from the coronary band in both the before and after photos? You don’t need to see where the heel contacts the ground, and it doesn’t make a hill of beans where the camera is positioned. The angle of the heel can be determined by observing the tubules and what angle they leave the coronary band. It is not rocket science to see that the heel angle on that horse has improved.
Great-when I am studying rocket science I will keep that in mind, until then, I would prefer to have precise photos taken at correct angles, and preferably without grass.
There is that devil again-all geared up over those details.
Thank you!
To the two or three people getting all up in arms-I am looking for something very precise to go along with some other information…the key is the precision.
This is not a personal attack on anyone-but to be valuable for what I am looking for, I will not take anyone’s word (certainly not on a forum), will not discuss photos not taken correctly (pointless).
Some are interested in the discussion-super!
Others not so much-so what?
Really, truly there is no need to get all snippy…if you have photos proving me wrong, I welcome them-from those photos there can be a progressive discussion that would provide more information.
Why is this such a foreign concept? 
[QUOTE=JB;5754466]
Does that mean there’s a genetic component? I don’t know, I suspect there could be, but I think it’s not at all a bigger deal than, or even a major part of, horses simply being “left handed” in general. I can tell you my foal had really long legs even for a foal, and no doubt that played a role.[/QUOTE] May also be a ‘learned’ behavior from the mother. Like mother, like son/daughter – they do learn from observation – or, most likely, a combination of all. (How’s THAT for compromise?) haha.
no you dont… you fear them… :yes:
I really don’t-it is being proven wrong that you expand and learn. Not in staying in the same place having false support for an idea.
I really wish Rick, the Toms and Patty will pipe in…I am curious what a farrier’s perspective and experience is.
It would even be better if someone had properly taken photos and access to the Epona software…
[QUOTE=LMH;5754357]
I will stand my this theory-and am looking for photos to disprove it…[/QUOTE]
You’ve already gotten those. You just don’t want to admit it. 
Trimming will correct underrun heels if incorrect trimming was the problem. Sure I’ll agree that the effect of trimming on hooves doesn’t exist in a vaccuum, but nothing in this world does.
Sure, I guess you could throw a horse out and not trim him, but that works best on a horse that has a good balanced foot in the first place, and on ground that promotes wear. Otherwise be prepared for the foot to look a LOT uglier before it looks better, and don’t really think that’s going to help the horse.
Lowering the outside hoof wall is not the same as lowering the coffin bone angle, and in the case of crushed heels you ARE mostly bringing the heels back and not down.
Oh give me a break. The thickness of a rasp stroke is not going to make or break a horse.
Only on COTH can one read about the wisdom of exercising the horse and leaving underrun heels. Wonders never cease.
I really don’t care if you believe it or not-I didn’t think up the idea…actually others on this thread have agreed about the ‘wonders’ of correct stimulus.
For a more detailed explanation, you should attend one of KC’s courses-he nailed this one.
In any case-thank you for your thoughts…in the meantime I wait.
