My response strictly comes from the amount of people who import from overseas. A lot of the us horses were imported horses and are now being sold here. Just an observation. Sorry to step on toes, but it’s what I’ve seen, read, and heard from the masses.
There’s no issue with the production of quality horses in the US.
The issues are that it is very expensive to raise and train and/or show and professionally market a 4 or 5 year old that an amateur can get on and evaluate. Our horsekeeping costs, training costs and especially showing costs are ridiculous. Secondly, breeding farms are located in broadly across the US which makes shopping and looking at a large number of horses very difficult.
As far as importing, there are quite a few lovely imports. Of course it’s quite handy to import a well trained and experienced horse and be able to show it in the green divisions. But, I know many sad import stories as well, where horses proved to be completely unsuitable (not remotely amateur friendly) or to have unsoundnesses that did not show up on the vetting (or perhaps their was some dishonesty at work). Well known buyers that buy and import horses repeatedly seem to have the best luck as they are able to develop a network of advisors and sellers that have an interest in the repeat business. European vets have a different approach to vetting as well. IME, they are more comfortable with minor flaws than their US counterparts. So I would also recmomend being particular about which vet you use for your vetting.
I’m currently in the process of doing the same thing (importing a hunter from Europe). I found that YouTube was a great source for finding hunter talent. Often the breeders and trainers don’t update their websites for months at a time but they seem to add videos to YouTube at least once a week. Just try searching “hunter prospect” or “hunter gelding”.
You definitely don’t need to spend more than $45k for a nice horse (aged 4-6 typically). Anything above that and they’re trying to take advantage of American buyers, from what I’ve seen. Holland is better at marketing the hunters to Americans so the prices will be a bit higher there but the trade off is that the horse has received more “hunter training”.
You should take a look at Stal Burgers - located in Holland. I’ve seen some great horses on there. He sells a lot to California. I’d be happy to tell you more about my experience with importing in a PM
I am in the UK, and things are pretty financially dire over here, so you may be able to get a bargain. I would register for some of the UK/Irish horse forums and do a search on dealers you are thinking of visiting - that will help weed out some of the more disreputable ones. Not helpful if going to Germany etc where the forums are not in English. There are some very nice horses in central/eastern Europe extremely cheap, but you won’t get the quantity you would in Germany etc, though it’s not much to pay for a flight for a one day trip perhaps.
I don’t know anything about hunters, but holmetrakehners has a lot of young horses that are cheap(ish). The stallions used have a nice enough jump and although aimed at dressage, they are flatter & not as big moving as many warmbloods, so that is maybe more suitable for hunters. Most have more eventing type movement. They have lots of good quality pics, some videos (though often of when the horses were younger) and state the prices which is useful. So even if these horses are not proper hunter types, I thought it would be a good website for you to have a look at.
Good luck finding your next horse
Check out sport horses-online. She actually offers a service for someone like you to come over and look at horses. She has a lot of nice amateur friendly ones come through and they are priced very reasonably IMO.
Are you sure you’re doing the math correctly?
A friend of mine got a nice (but SMALL - think hony) mare and spent $35k all in. Bought off a video, did not travel to Europe herself. She’s on the east coast so flight wasn’t too expensive. Mare quarantine was more obviously.
This was several years ago and even then that was the most inexpensively I’d seen anyone do it.
She definitely spent less than she would have in the US, but I really don’t think purchase price + import can really equal much less than $30 and you’re talking about a pretty expensive trip out there as well.
What BeeHoney said is accurate.
Prices for horses will have a huge range just like here. It really depends on what you mean by lower end of the price range and what age, size, quality, level of training etc. etc. you are looking for. Europeans are well aware of the quality of their horses and therefore price them accordingly. Agents and training barns significantly add to the overall price but you are paying for their experience and knowledge if that is what you are looking for. I found the sale barns that sell a lot of hunters were very pricey. The best prices seem to be with the actual breeders and smaller operations and most of them do not really know what a hunter is but most of them will not have true hunter types either. Having someone you trust is a good idea if you do not have the experience… really no different than shopping here.
Another thing to keep in mind that these horses are trained for careers in dressage or jumpers etc. and are ridden as such (forward with leg and seat and into contact etc.). A very different ride if you have not been exposed to any dressage and are only used to hunters started and trained here. Many of them also require a period of adjustment and some retraining to “Americanize”.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8413009]
Try the US Sporthorse Breeders Association. They’re updating their directory now, but it has lot’s of top hunter/jumper breeders as members with nice horses.
http://www.usshba.org/
It includes:
North Hill Farm (New York) http://northhillfarmny.com/
Tish Quirk (California) http://vxnhosting.com/tishquirk/
Hilltop Farm (Maryland) http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/
Rainbow Equus Meadow (California) http://rainbowequus.com/
Wild Turkey Farm (Oregon) http://wildturkeyfarm.com/
to name just a few…[/QUOTE]
With OP in southern California, I’d at least take the time to contact Tish Quirk, who would be a lovely day trip at the very least, and probably knows who else would be worth contacting better than most. US breeders don’t generally keep websites etc up to date and you are going to have to pick up the phone and call, especially if you don’t want one that is being expensively promoted at the moment.
Check with Karin at German Show Horses. I have not personally bought a horse from her but know someone who has bought several this year. All have been reasonably priced, nice hunters.
How about an OTTB? I currently have an OTTB who is pretty fancy and beat some nice WBs at shows. At one point my horse was for sale and I was looking for a WB but I changed my mind. I have a really nice horse and my trainer and I worked really hard to bring him to where he is today. I too at one point wanted to jump on the WB bandwagon and wanted to buy a WB.
I am glad I decided to keep him. When I told people he was for sale they looked at me and said why?
Good luck with your search.
I can find you a super hunter prospect for around 11000 Usd. Sweden is the place to go. Fly in to Copenhagen in Danmark and you will be in HorseMecca within 30 minutes. Trainer? Not unless you are a novice. Swedes are in general pretty honest. Vetting including xrays (12) around 800 Usd.
Why is it cheap? There is NO huntermarket in Sweden.
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8414315]
A lot of the us horses were imported horses and are now being sold here. Just an observation. [/QUOTE]
Agreed, and just wanted to add that when they arrive in the U.S., the price immeditately goes up.
Benny De Ruiter is where my sweet boy came from He is ‘Freckles’ on his site - name now is “Firefly”
I know you haven’t found the right horse in the US, but presumably you had pictures and video of these US horses before you drive out to look? And you liked the video/photos enough that you did drive out, so obviously there is a difference between how a horse seems in video and how it is in real life. So don’t be fooled by the numerous youtube videos of amazing European prospects. Those are PRO RIDES. The “training pyramid” seemed to be different over there, and a lot of horses arre finessed over 3’6 courses, looking amazing, but turned out they were spooky or hardly broke on the flat when a mid-level ammie (me) got on. In my experience, most of the truly successful hunter imports are in full board/training programs to fill in those training holes, and it’s often a year or 2 before that horse is ready for it’s AA rider. Don’t forget to factor full training costs into your equation.
I had a friend who bought a German horse based on the recommendation of a reputable BNT. It was a pro-ride in every way, and while the girl did manage to have some show success with it, the mare was temperamental and touchy, and it needed a lot of prep for the girl to show it. When the girl aged out, it was on the market (in full training) for over a year before they finally managed to sell it.
I did buy a horse from Germany. I went and tried about 15 over a weekend. I found a lovely 3yo gelding who free jumped great and I loved when I rode. Fast forward several years. I have him leased as a dressage horse because he never did develop into the hunter I wanted him to be. That can, of course, happen with any prospect, US or European, but I spent the most I’ve ever spent on that boy, plus import, etc, and so I resent that ‘failure’ more than I do the ‘cheaper’ prospects
I brought my Hanoverian gelding over from Germany Dec 2010, so not sure how prices have changed since then. End to end, cost about $10,000.
There are some amazing horses out in Europe, but the US home-bred horses are getting better quality all the time, often from imported parents, and once you factor in import costs, you can likely find equally nice youngstock here at home for a bit less. If you want to go try a ton of horses in one week in the US, go to WEF or one of the other big circuits. You can sit on a ton of horses, see them in a show environment, and save the cost of import.
Just my opinion.
I will echo others to say yes it is my experience that a lot of the five year olds here are very very green on the flat despite jumping very well with pros in the young horse classes. I was astonished when i started riding them and I’m very used to riding three and four year olds with very limited miles. Not all are this green, but many. And the ones I know who are not are priced well over the op’S desired budget.
Contact Tish Quirk she has LOVELY horses!!!
I appreciated reading all of the informative responses and opinions. While many great horses are imported from overseas, it sounds like a buyer really has to be confident in knowledge/experience as well as having a heap of good luck!
True North- did you ever end up finding your next horse? And if so, do you mind me asking if you bought it in the US or abroad?
stopping in to suggest Ireland. Lots of affordable/young prospects in Ireland with great breeding and the “look”
I’d also suggest that since youre shopping for something just to do the local stuff/not AA rated and not a super fancy hunter; try shopping on home soil. There is PLENTY here if you take the time to look and you will likely save in the end. Even if you buy an un-started prospect or find something off the track that is super good mover. There is A LOT available in the states within your budget and for the skill set level youre looking for.
It is worth reading the Anne Kursinski column (link somewhere over to the right) about the American forward seat. European horses are ridden in a very different seat. The American forward seat is not a universal way of riding. The horse may be used to a lot more of a driving and deep seat to make it balanced and to make it go. Two point as a constant position may be something the horse has never encountered before. So the horse may need to be trained/retrained to accept and respond to a whole different kind of rider style.