Lost Jockey Club Papers.

[danceronice]

Who was being mean? Vets don’t GLUE body parts on, that’s all. The color of a scar has nothing to do with how it was attached.

And just because he wound up on a meat truck doesn’t mean that’s why his papers weren’t with him. Where you got him doesn’t really matter as far as not having the papers goes.

And what more do you want? You got in touch with the track, you can’t get hold of the owner, they won’t give you his (did you ask for the trainer’s?) number and they don’t have the papers. Did you call the state owners and breeders association to try and get their numbers from them? You can call the Jockey Club and see what they say to do.

[rcloisonne]

Well, Laurierace, you’ve been TOLD! :lol:

If this horse went directly from Suffolk to a “slaughter” truck, perhaps someone needs to inform Suffolk management and report the trainer and owner?

And OP, since you bought him off “the truck”, how in the world can you be so sure he got those injuries from training? :rolleyes:

[judybigredpony]

No Halo…you seem to have a very slim chance of getting the papers back from the people who know the connections.

Let it go, he is a gelding and really doesn’t need them, your name will not ever be on the face of them nor recorded by JC as an owner…unless he were to race…they prove nothing.
His Tat is proof he was DNA’d and registered and raced.

Sure for some Breed year end awards perhaps, but proof he is registered and owned by you surely will help for some things.

He is eligable for PHR regiatration…right???

In your heart he is your TB and even if he doesn’t get a silly big ribbon to wear around his neck as a USDF TB points winner who cares, in open competition you can still promote and ambassador the breed aspect by his perfomance alone!!!

This is a long and old saga of wanting the papers, but in reality the last owner has withheld them and without a contract w/ your bill of sale gaurenteing them to you…SOL

The very fact he was slaughter bound is good reason for last owner on papers to run and hide. Because unless he has a bill of sale and paper trail to everyone horse was sold to after him, it makes him look very BAD.

As to the ear…does he have a scar on the inside showing it actually was detatched?? Just curious, I have meet a few AQHA who had ears partial or full and they never re-attached…

[arabhorse2]

OP, why are you so hellbent on getting his JC papers? They really don’t mean a heck of a lot.

I have JJ’s JC papers, but his previous owner/trainer didn’t sign off on them, so I’d have to track her down and ask her to do it if I was worried. I’m not.

As long as you have a bill of sale and your TB is tattooed, you have nothing to worry about.

JC papers aren’t like regular registration papers for purebreds, and since there are no breed shows for TBs, I really don’t see the issue.

This from a woman who for 30 years only bought horses with registration papers. :winkgrin:

[No_Halo]

I’m going to go to a more helpful board.
Without know-it-alls, and questioning how an injuries horse got that way.

Thanks for those who did help! And love their OTTBs.

[up-at-5]

Don’t worry about having papers, like others have stated, a tattoo is good enough to qualify for points at shows offering high point TB etc.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=No Halo;5706894]
I’m going to go to a more helpful board.
Without know-it-alls, and questioning how an injuries horse got that way.

Thanks for those who did help! And love their OTTBs.[/QUOTE]

Take your ball and go home then. Ridiculous! You don’t even know how the horse was injured. For all you know his dam bit his ear while he was still a suckling. Not to mention, who cares? It is what it is at this point. Enjoy him and go on with your life.

[DiablosHalo]

[QUOTE=No Halo;5706894]
I’m going to go to a more helpful board.
Without know-it-alls, and questioning how an injuries horse got that way.

Thanks for those who did help! And love their OTTBs.[/QUOTE]

No such other board exists for what you are looking for. I suggest you tame the tude in future posts or you’ll get nowhere fast around here.

[witherbee]

Wow, nice attitude from someone looking for help. As someone who has sold/given away horses to HJ people (of which I am also one as well as being a breeder/owner), I COMPLETELY understand why papers are not given. Ask the nice gelding who showed at HITS and ended up racing on the bottom in Canada after being sold as Never to Race on a contract. And who has on his papers a sticker with my contact information for help rehoming him, but of course I have never heard a word about him.

Ask the other nice gelding that an owner of ours sold to a riding instructor as her personal horse that ended up starving in her field and by chance I happened to see him and recognise him so was able to take him back.

Ask the mare who was sold by my SIL as Never To Race because she had had a severe case of pnuemonia and had lung damage, but was sent back to the races by her new owner…

THIS is why some people do not send papers along. It’s also why some of us in the race industry get tired of being vilified and hearing that horses were injured at the track, when in some cases the damage is done by people that the horses are sold to. I’ve even had good owners have trouble bridling a horse that we bred and raised and that never had a problem with being bridled - they of course assumed that the horse had been abused at the track, when that could not have been further from the truth. I’ve also heard of horrific paddock accidents when people turned the horse out with either the wrong companion, or just a freak accident and they assume that the horse had not been turned out - ours are always turned out and live as horses for part of the year and for frequent breaks. A lot of assumptions.

The OP is probably long gone, but I bet her horse has a very interesting story, but she doesn’t sound like she’d be open to hearing it - her mind is made up. Unfortunately, the horse can’t talk. Not saying that horses aren’t mistreated - some are - same as those poor HJ/Eventing/Dressage/Western etc. horses that end up at slaughter or abused…

Off my soapbox, but this (young?) poster hit a nerve after I just spent thousands of dollars getting this nice 4 year old gelding back up to snuff…

[judybigredpony]

I have been badgedered and threatened after sell horses and it is clearly is stated on Bill of sale…NO JC Papers will go w/ horse…only to later get bombarded w/ calls n e-mails wanting them.
New OTTB non racing owners who think…think being the operative word that the JC is going to re-issue a new set of papers w/ the new owners name listed as owner on front…there is a mind set that w/o JC Papers they have no proof of anything…when in reality the papers prove squat …the tattoo is much better proof…
The unfortuante part is for a young filly who is stil of race age…I really hate to part w/ their papers, feel honor bound should they wish to breed. Even as a sports horse alot of those Breed registries require orginal JC papers. Mores the pity mare/filly has a tatto and was DNA but they require papers and sometimes those papers are long gone or lost and previos owner vanished as well.

Op coped a " tude" and just doesn’t get it…the parties involved DO NOT have to give her time of day.

I want to know how she got a horse off a slaughter “TRUCK” my experiance has been once bought paid for and loaded slaughterhouse bound you don’t get a horse off…no exceptions…unless he was bought by a private re-seller who took loads off track to his holding place and culled out the better ones and “offered” them up for re-sale 1st…I smell fish…

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;5707063]
Op coped a " tude" and just doesn’t get it…the parties involved DO NOT have to give her time of day…[/QUOTE]
Agreed!

However, this thread has brought up some interesting points of view regarding TB papers. I know it’s been discussed before but why can’t the JC issue non-racing papers again? IMO this would be great PR for an industry the majority of people believe is cruel and exploitive. It would show they actually care about the fate of the horses once their racing careers are over (even if, as I suspect, they don’t).

Let’s face it, a horse with “papers” is almost always considered more valuable than one without, at least in the eyes of the horse buying, non-racing public.

[alspharmd]

I have to say, I’m absolutely thrilled I got my TB’s papers when I bought him. To a lot of people, I guess, JC papers don’t mean anything of substance and aren’t required for anything anyway, but to me, getting the papers was just really, really awesome. I can definitely understand why a new OTTB owner would want to have them, even if for no other reason than it’s really cool for a non-racing horse owner.

I also understand the risks involved with passing on the papers.

[witherbee]

I really like the idea of “non-racing” papers and will put my money where my mouth is and send a letter to the JC to suggest it. I would also be willing to pay an extra few dollars at registration time or even better when I ordered the non-racing papers. Could be a good public relations thing - especially if some of the $ could go to TB retirement funds or some other post-racing cause.

I’ll post a copy of the letter here after I’ve worded it - maybe some other members can also request it.

[foxhavenfarm]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;5706912]
Take your ball and go home then. Ridiculous! You don’t even know how the horse was injured. For all you know his dam bit his ear while he was still a suckling. Not to mention, who cares? It is what it is at this point. Enjoy him and go on with your life.[/QUOTE]

This!

[MardiGrasTimeStable]

[QUOTE=witherbee;5708593]
I really like the idea of “non-racing” papers and will put my money where my mouth is and send a letter to the JC to suggest it. I would also be willing to pay an extra few dollars at registration time or even better when I ordered the non-racing papers. Could be a good public relations thing - especially if some of the $ could go to TB retirement funds or some other post-racing cause.

I’ll post a copy of the letter here after I’ve worded it - maybe some other members can also request it.[/QUOTE]

If they could figure out how to offer them I wouldn’t mind paying a bit for them either - or having the new (non-racing) owners paying for them. Prove the horse is who they are - tattoo, bill of sale, photos, or even resubmit their DNA.

As for the OP - sure they are gone, but maybe checking back.

You are probably SOL on getting papers. He is gelded - so as we say around here “you can’t ride the papers and you can’t breed a gelding” so no reason to try to make sure they are with him anyways. You may /want/ them - but you don’t /need/ them.

• I got lucky with 1 of the mares we picked up - we eventually put her up for sale and she was recognized by a previous handler who put us in touch with her previous owner and he offered to get us duplicate papers for her, we didn’t ask for them. But that was not expected.

That said - if we have the papers and are certain the horse won’t end back up at the track (usually older then 5 and a non-winner anyways) then we’ll try to pass the papers along. Or we sell them with it written as “no JC papers provided on horse described”. You bought the the horse without papers, you knew he didn’t come /with/ them, and the JC does not re-issue them like any other registry could do. So why the heck are you all fired up to have them?

[spooky01]

No Halo On Me

I just spoke to Marcus, this woman has never tried very hard to reach him as he has never spoken to her. Halo went to his ex-wife’s farm from Suffolk at the end of the meet for a while then was sold/given to another local farm. As far as he knew that farm still had the horse. Where he went from the farm that he was given/sold to is unknown at this time. He will look in his file to see if he has the papers and is willing to give them up.

So Halo, before you assume, be careful what you imply, say and insinuate.

Witherbee, couldn’t agree with you more, you said it better than I could of.

Halo and anybody looking for paper/info on horses from Suffolk, contact the Horsemen’s Bookkeeper at 617-568-3207, we are more than willing to try and help get what you are looking for!!!

[system]

Hmm… my reply disappeared, hope this doesn’t post twice!

http://discus.equinesite.net/discus/messages/1/44319.html?1299813608

Someone posting as “No Halo On Me” back in March, posted that she had purchased “Nova” off the track in September, 2010 and was trying to find a home for him.

Interesting… Seems weird that “No Halo” calls him Nova, if he was “purchased off a slaughter truck”, and so does the young lady trying to rehome him back in March, who purchased him off the track (although someone else says their mother bought her horse from the same barn that she purchased Nova from).

hmmm…

[caffeinated]

Actually, that person posted here on COTH as well:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295837

huh.

(and it seems the OP posted on that equinesite board as well, so probably got him through there, not that it matters. Maybe she meant the person she got him from pulled him out of a bad situation?)

[LittleblackMorgan]

Your best bet is to contact Marcus Vitali and if theyre still on file with Suffolk

Big fat GOOD LUCK with that. Been there, done that. No papers released.

ETA-The bookkeepers at Suffolk are so helpful. I tried for months to get my old horses papers from Marcus’s exwife, and Marcus (via certified registered letter). Guess what? I never got them!!!I was ignored by Marcus. The ex offered me another TB. (more to the story, but irrelevant).

Anyways, you probably will never see those papers unfortunately. Good luck though.

[spooky01]

If I remember correctly, it wasn’t Marcus that wouldn’t release the papers, it was the owner that wouldn’t release them and I think had possession of them