I doubt you’ll ever see those papers. My OTTB doesn’t have them anymore, they were lost. I honestly don’t care. He has a tattoo, I have his registered name, I have his pedigree, his racing records, and did the “find info” thing with the JC to get his registered color and height and any additional details they had on him.
Papers or not, I’m happy I have him and love him to bits.
If Mr. Buckley has bought anything at auction a sales company will have his address. In the past they have always given me addresses, no phone numbers. Just ask if they have an address for Mr. Buckley and if they ask why tell them you have an OTTB that Mr. Buckley once owned that you are re-schooling and wanted to get some back ground information on the horse. I wouldn’t mention that you got him from the kill pen. Call Keeneland Sales, Fasig Tipton, Ocala Breeders Sales (OBS) I have gotten addresses from the Jockey Club for owners of last record I guess they don’t do give them anymore. If your intentions are honorable I completely understand why you would want them. Explain the same to Mr. Buckley. Kind of surprised this post got so hotly debated. But it seems to happen quite often which is why I have not been around in over a year. Most of the time papers are that are withheld is not necessarily for the well fair of the horse but more to protect the ego of the last owner or trainer. God forbid that someone else might do better with the horse. Yes, there are plenty of people out there that will squeeze the lemon dry but far more have ethics and compassion. Call me a fool but I tend to give most people the benefit of doubt. IMO TB’s without papers are far more likely to fall on hard times then those that don’t.
[QUOTE=gumtree;5726640]
Kind of surprised this post got so hotly debated. But it seems to happen quite often which is why I have not been around in over a year. Most of the time papers are that are withheld is not necessarily for the well fair of the horse but more to protect the ego of the last owner or trainer. God forbid that someone else might do better with the horse. Yes, there are plenty of people out there that will squeeze the lemon dry but far more have ethics and compassion. Call me a fool but I tend to give most people the benefit of doubt. IMO TB’s without papers are far more likely to fall on hard times then those that don’t.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you really contradict yourself here - first you say that most of the time papers are withheld “to protect the ego of the last owner or trainer” and then you say you “tend to give most people the benefit of the doubt”. Evidently you have never been in the position of having sold or given away a horse with a contract that the horse was never to race and a notation on the papers only to see that horse in the Entries in Canada. Evidently you have never sold or given away a mare that had severe lung damage from a bout of pneumonia and had the person who promised to keep her as a broodmare or companion send her right back into training. Ego indeed…
Sorry, but I get so sick of all of the other disciplines trashing race owners/breeders/trainers. Having just picked up another owner’s STARVING 4 year old at a hunter barn, I’m a little fed up with the attitude that the only abusive practices are in racing.
Actually I have just recently. I received the following email from a good Samaritan who just happened to see a filly we bred and has nothing to do with the rescue group;
Hello! I am writing this in hopes that you will be able to help. A beautiful thoroughbred mare you bred named Double the Love is sitting in a kill pen at New Holland Auction. She is running out of time. http://www.ac4h.com/BrokerOwned4.htm (She is about halfway down the page.) She is very sore footed or lame and likely will ship to slaughter if someone doesn’t intervene. I just rescued a thoroughbred mare a few days ago from there who I am paying to quarantine, or I would save her myself. I am hoping that since you were her breeder, you would be able to help in some way. I will help get her a home, but she needs to be saved first. Thank you for any help you can provide. Take care!
I was shocked and dismayed over the condition of the filly, she is not a mare yet, and where she is. She only came off the track in late March. We sold her as a 2 year old but I have known the trainer for years. He called us in March to inform us she was finished racing and if we wanted her back. I said give us a couple of weeks we are in the process of move horses around. When I called him back not long after to tell him we could take her he said he found a “good” home for her. Then I get this!!! Check out the video hard for a horse to get in that condition if she went to a “good” home and then was moved on to who ever has her now in such a short time. She was picture perfect when she left the trainer. I know the trainer well and plan to find out just what happened. Every horse we breed and sell the new owners know we will take them back. It is the right thing to do if you are going to be a breeder.
I still stand by my post.
Add your horses to www.Thoroughbredconnect.com so if someone lists them as needing a home, you’ll be notified:)
Id be interested in some answers from show horse people. I race, and only race, no showing. I havent sold any OTTBs off the track, but will be in that position later on this year. I, too, don’t want to give papers with a horse if I dont want them back on the track, but I want to give them the best opportunity to have a good home. Does it do any good to show horse people to have a copy of the papers? That way I can turn the papers back in to the Jockey Club as Sold Without Pedigree, yet the new owner still has a copy of the papers to show who the horse is and to register them with a show horse registry, or whatever is out there (I know squat about show horses).
If it’s a mare and she might be inspected for a warmblood/sport horse registry, papers will make it MUCH easier. And there are breed points and things like that where you have to be able to prove the horse is what you say it is.
Personally, I would only take the horse with the real papers. They go with the horse, it’s one more piece of paperwork (beyond a coggins or bill of sale) to prove who the horse is and that he’s mine. And for me a mare’s worthless if she’s not registered as I’d only want one to breed. If you don’t want them racing, don’t sell them to race owners. Vet the buyer, or see if your local version of CANTER (or equivalent–there is a group in Florida that does something similar) will take the horse as they use a contract.
Vet the buyer anyway. There are far worse things than a horse racing til it drops. Someone at IIRC C-town sold a pony horse to a woman with kids who swore up and down it was for her autistic son. A couple weeks later a CANTER volunteer happened to be looking at AC4H and spotted the horse in a broker pen for resale–it probably went straight from the track to New Holland to get run through the sale. The trainer who sold it got it back but if that CANTER person hadn’t been browsing and if AC4H hadn’t listed it, it could have wound up on the next truck to Canada.
Halo I have sold horses off the track before with a copy of their papers. It all depends on the seller and buyer. Some buyers wont even look at a horse without the papers, others are happy with a copy. Some sellers want extra $ to give the papers with the horse (usually $300 or so - I dont agree with this but I know of many people who do this). Personally, when I sell one of ours I usually do give the papers with the horse but I try to scope out the buyer to the best of my ability so that I have a good idea that the horse wont end up racing again. And I always include a note in the bill of sale that says NEVER TO BE RACED that I have the buyers initial next to it and then sign the B.O.S. And I always keep a copy of that bill of sale for myself.
Jess, the problem I see with that is, what if that person then sells the horse? Theres nothing to prevent the next owner from taking said horse with papers and racing it.
Im just not quite sure how to deal with this situation. Hopefully, a copy of the papers will be enough for the new owner.
Halo you’re right - there is no guarantee that down the line the horse won’t end up back on the track with a 3rd or 4th owner. Thats the main reason so many folks wont give the papers with the horse, to guarantee it wont race again. There is no easy answer that pleases everyone.
Poor “No Halo”… seems he needs a new home already, he obviously didn’t work out for the OP.
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1725320
Poor “NO HALO” is now being offered as a freebie on Dreamhorse, he obviously didn’t work out for this OP! Very sad indeed!
[QUOTE=Laurierace;5706336]
Perhaps all the more reason to insure the horse does not end up back at the races by withholding the papers. Not too long ago there was a high profile case where a stallion was sold with a contract stating he was never to be raced. The contract was signed by both parties but the buyer had a change of heart and next thing you know the horse was back at the races. I bet the sellers wished they had withheld those papers.
And no way they glued his ear on.[/QUOTE]
That has happened several times. I’m not sure why people think that suddenly after all the time and years and injuries that suddenly THEY will succeed with a retired horse!!
My horse cut his ear off, it had just enough blood supply left to sew it back on but luckily it healed fine, left a white line all around his ear! They do have that surgical glue, maybe that is what OP meant. But probably they sewed it on.
Annnnd… No Halo is now in a rescue in PA. (The name typed on this album is slightly wrong, looking at photos this is definitely the same horse.)
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.240461982675535.65795.112899218765146&type=1
Guess OP really wanted those papers:(
[QUOTE=arabhorse2;5706883]
OP, why are you so hellbent on getting his JC papers? They really don’t mean a heck of a lot.
I have JJ’s JC papers, but his previous owner/trainer didn’t sign off on them, so I’d have to track her down and ask her to do it if I was worried. I’m not. 
As long as you have a bill of sale and your TB is tattooed, you have nothing to worry about.
JC papers aren’t like regular registration papers for purebreds, and since there are no breed shows for TBs, I really don’t see the issue.
This from a woman who for 30 years only bought horses with registration papers. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Excuse me? Jockey Club papers are most certainly breed registration papers for thoroughbreds, that is the silliest thing, (well almost, along with Obama did not really know he was in cahoots with criminal bankers) that I have ever heard of. What “other” breed registry is there for TBs besides those performance horse things?
It also makes no sense to sell a horse and to guarantee it will not race again, to keep the papers. All kinds of back door bootleg operations to get papers exist, even getting old papers that somewhat match and get the horse in the gate at those places that are not exactly, shall we say, diligent about checking the tats. PtPs being only one of them, flat racings goes on all over the place that exist to make some kind of purse. I think the horse should have it’s registry with it simply as a matter of record for the animal.
The Jockey Club can make non racing records that will stick if they want to, you have to raise holy hell to get them to do it, but before they did not even want to recognize the problem of the non racing “market” for thoroughbreds, either good or bad until they were basically shamed into doing so, so why not get that part out of the way and make them recognize that if an owner sells a horse that is not supposed to race again, then record it that way with the JC, make sure the papers are paid for to re-record that way, and that is that. It may take a bit of shuffling in their precious administration costs but that could be taken care of by the new owners, right? Where there is a will there is a way. I want my horses papers with him/her, period. I want to know who they are and who bred them and I think that their record should go with them. If it only helps a few horses who are in need find someone who cares for them, it is all worth it. I would certainly love it if I could record somewhere that a horse I bred or owned and loved, could find me when he/she needs me.
By the way, there are breed shows for thoroughbreds. You need a bit more knowledge of the whole situation.
o.m.g.
I think it’s time to impose COTH’s explosive diarrhea curse on the OP. A horse should never need rescuing twice.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;5944792]
I think it’s time to impose COTH’s explosive diarrhea curse on the OP. A horse should never need rescuing twice.[/QUOTE]
How do you know that the OP did this to the horse? In the fairy tale world of so many people today who are well off or at least comfortable, bad things should just not happen, and, if it does, let’s just find the nearest scapegoat and whip up on them. Where the real culprit lies for the disaster that has overtaken this country very often is right in the mirror.
In reading op’s other posts - it sounds like she needed to be rescued…
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