Lost Jockey Club Papers.

[Bacchus]

By the way, there are breed shows for thoroughbreds. You need a bit more knowledge of the whole situation.

There are breed shows for Thoroughbreds starting next year through TJC Thoroughbred Incentive Program, but the ones going on now are just a show having a Thoroughbred class.

And no, you cannot get TJC to make non-racing papers – maybe they’ll do it in the future if we are lucky, but right now it doesn’t matter how much heck you raise, you won’t get them because they don’t exist.

And changing a horse’s identity, getting “old” papers to match a horse, or getting duplicates is much more difficult than you think, and hardly worth it.

[Trevelyan96]

I’ve owned 4 TB’s, 2 of the OTTBS. Both OTTB’s and the unraced mare came with papers. One, a young gelding, given to a rescue without papers and was never named.

I don’t race, but I do prefer they come with papers. Mainly because I feel that by proving identity, papers will often protect the horse. Tatoos only work to postitively ID a horse IF they can be read!

I also understand why many race owners prefer to keep the papers desire that the horse should not be raced, but like the rest of us, once you give up ownersship, you also relinquish your rights regarding further use of the horse.

However, by sending the papers with the horse, you at least leave a paper trail and the door open to be contacted in the future if the horse needs a rescue and you want the opportunity to do so.

[Trevelyan96]

I’ve owned 4 TB’s, 2 of them OTTBS. Both OTTB’s and the unraced mare came with papers. One, a young gelding, was given to a rescue without papers and was never named. Fortunately, the owner provided his sire/dam and year born information and I was able, eventually, (10 YEARS later) through the JC, to at least have him officially named. He died a year later, and to this day I am grateful that he did not have to die without ever having an official name. He was an awesome horse and deserved that.

I don’t race, but I do prefer they come with papers. Mainly because I feel that by proving identity, papers will often protect the horse. Tatoos only work to postitively ID a horse IF they can be read!

I also understand why many race owners prefer to keep the papers desire that the horse should not be raced, but like the rest of us, once you give up ownersship, you also relinquish your rights regarding further use of the horse. However, by sending the papers with the horse, you at least leave a paper trail and the door open to be contacted in the future if the horse needs a rescue and you want the opportunity to do so.

Its a 50/50 risk for the owner. You either risk it being raced, or you risk it finding its way into a low end auction where it can’t be identifided because the tatoo can’t be read. I’ll take the former over the latter.

[onthehill]

Looking MUCH better! Found this - No Halo On Me is the horse you’ll see with the thin white strip. http://www.wgal.com/r-video/30256775/detail.html

… And I was just looking at the girl’s profile who originally started this thread? I hope nothing bad happened to her - it looked like she was having some relationship issues. :uhoh:

[Eventer55]

[QUOTE=ptownevt;5648688]
One reason to need papers: to register a horse with the USDF in order to qualify for breed awards and to promote OTTBs.[/QUOTE]

Also for TIP I believe you need papers :yes:

[onthehill]

Well I think the papers question is really a moot point at this moment.

Thank goodness Halo is OK … but I have to wonder about OP.

[Eventer55]

[QUOTE=DiablosHalo;5944778]
o.m.g.[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I didn’t realize how old this thread was when I mentioned TIP Thanks DiablosHalo you pretty much summed it up.

[jurneeka]

Well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204257504577149073666823752.html

[Lady_Counselor]

headdesk
You know, reading through threads like this, some of the very people who are beating their chests about “saving” horses are making it harder and harder for everyone else.

Come on people! If you buy the horse without the papers, you bought him without papers. If you have to have papers, don’t buy an unpapered horse. Wait until you find one with them.

And going online, listing trainers or owners by name and bitching about them because they won’t give up the papers, well that may really make them think twice or three times about the next horse they sell off the track. This makes a vicious cyle even worse.

They get dragged all over the internet, after selling a horse to try to get a home for it, well now what are they supposed to do? Risk making a sale to someone who either turns around and dumps the horse (as apparently happened here)or risk getting badmouthed by them? Avoid the private buyer and sell to someone who is a broker, but risk a New Holland call? Euthanize everything as soon as it’s career is done?

Right now there is no surefire way to keep an ex-racehorse off the track other than pulling the papers. And people like the OP are not helping anyone at all.

If you absolutely, positively have to have some sort of papers for your horse, either find a registry where you can register them (like ACTHA) or look into finding out from the JC about what it takes to have papers reissued for your horse and pay the price. Or only buy a horse with papers in the first place.

[Hunting_Creek]

TIP info!

[QUOTE=Eventer55;6095349]
Also for TIP I believe you need papers :yes:[/QUOTE]

For purposes of TIP, you do not need the papers. The horse has to be registered, but registration can be proven by (1) papers, (2) tattoo lookup and 5-cross ped, or (3) letter from TJC. For more inform, see www.tjctip.com and click on Thoroughbred Owners.

[judybigredpony]

Eligibility
For purposes of eligibility for all T.I.P. classes and awards, a “Thoroughbred” is
defined as any horse that has been registered with The Jockey Club. All horse
shows must require riders to verify registration on the day of the horse show through
one of the following methods:
 The Jockey Club Certificate of Foal Registration or a copy thereof; or
 The horse’s lip tattoo, the horse’s 5-cross pedigree and the successful
tattoo lookup result from The Jockey Club’s Tattoo Identification Services,
(located at registry.jockeyclub.com); or
 If neither of the above is available, a letter from The Jockey Club verifying
the horse’s identity.

[MagicalFinn]

I have a Halo grandbaby too! Imho it’s a great line! As for the papers, im struggling with the exact same issue. Even worse though, I think his last owner may have passed away. Ill let you know if I figure out how to handle this issue, but in the meantime good luck and I would love to see pictures of your boy!

[Pristine]

If there is a dispute about ownership the person with the Jockey Club papers is likely to be considered the owner. If somebody buys a horse with no papers that horse could have been stolen. Also those selling for slaughter or to kill buyers do not care about papers. If somebody wants the papers they are not so likely to be sending them off to slaughter.

[moodymaretoo]

[QUOTE=Pristine;6121084]
If there is a dispute about ownership the person with the Jockey Club papers is likely to be considered the owner. If somebody buys a horse with no papers that horse could have been stolen. Also those selling for slaughter or to kill buyers do not care about papers. If somebody wants the papers they are not so likely to be sending them off to slaughter.[/QUOTE]

This is something I used to fear. Since I did not get much info about my OTTB or even his right name when I bought him.
When I got him, didn’t care that I didn’t get papers.
We will not ever show and he will never race again.
My fear was that he was stolen, and someone might come to take him. Fortunately through digging and scraping together bits and pieces… I know my horse was not stolen, was likely at risk for a bad situation, has a colt that raced once (which I cannot find updates on anymore)
I know there will be NO ONE coming to lay claim to my horse (also now a gelding).
Would I like a copy of his papers??? Hell yeah I would.
Will I ever get them… not very likely.
Do I love him any less… Nope.
So he’s young enough to be my first owned horse and I’m old enough that he will be my last and only… The longer I have him, the less I care about his past.

[flashwhitelock]

with the new eventing ottb awards and prize money, you need the papers. (usually can’t read the tatoo at event horse ages)
I’ll probably ditch riding my mare who doesn’t have papers and only do horses with papers in the future. guess which horses are going to have a better chance at a second career, yup, the one with the papers.

maybe all you race folks need to lean on jockey club to do something about doing the non-raceable registration. until then, the marketplace is changing this year and I, for one, will change with it and only re-school papered horses in the future. good luck finding homes for the ones without.

[judybigredpony]

I’ll probably ditch riding my mare who doesn’t have papers and only do horses with papers in the future. guess which horses are going to have a better chance at a second career, yup, the one with the papers.

Did you read what you posted…I’ll probably ditch my mare…

flashwhitelock…Before you make you post…show the rule that says you HAVE to Have the JC papers…if the horse is tattooed its been DNA’ed and a good Black Light can help with partial tattoo’s and also Tattoo look up w/ aide of marking and Whorls…I sell OTTB and I don’t even want the papers…maybe on an older 5-6yr old out of conditions but a young 3-4 yr old who is sound…Trainer can keep them. Horse is tattooed and its my way of keeping the horse from being sent back to racing…Because n matter how much you write Not To Race and No Matter How You word you Contract there are 2 a**shats for every 1 legit buyer that will try sending horse back to racing.
I posted the T.I.P rules…All this thread does is create miss understanding…when you adopt a dog from a rescue or pound do you get his AKC papers…NO…can you actualy prove the dog or pedigree No…does it make the dog any less of a pet…No…So does having a piece of paper that will never list you as owner breeder etc on the face nor prove even ownership …No… The bill of sale and proof of payment are your Best tools as well as a tattoo…Are you people thick.

Unless the JC wants to take on the daunting labrynth of keeping tabs on the many owmership changes of some OTTB you just have to come to terms that Alot of OTTB will not have papers…move on there are more pressing issues…

[Bacchus]

As stated, you do NOT have to have JC papers to qualify for TIP classes.

Also, JC papers are NOT proof of ownership. Never will be. Ask the JC if you don’t believe me. The best proof of ownership is a bill of sale and possession of the horse.

Technically, the only reason you need papers is to race a horse and possibly to register a foal out of a mare, but you really don’t need the mares papers for that, either, as long as she’s registered and you are listed as owner with The Jockey Club, which is how you can do business with them based on a certain horse – it does not prove to anyone else (or the JC) that you actually own the horse.

I have two OTTBs and don’t have papers for either of them. Don’t need them because I don’t plan to race them.

[FalseImpression]

the “ditch my mare” gives me shivers…

[flashwhitelock]

“ditch my mare” gives you shivers?? let’s see, I’ve spent 18 months retraining and $4000 in vet bills to fix this mare from the damage done to her racing. Just what does your brain think I’m going to do?? yes, I will find her a job she can do that won’t need confirmation of her being a OTTB. She’ll probably go in the jumper market instead of the eventing that I was planning. I’ll concentrate my time and energy on horses that can go the sport I’m interested in.

If the tatoo is no longer there (she’d cut her nose almost off when loose one day.) then NO, I can only use the papers to confirm her background. Many of the TB’s I’ve worked with over the years have not had legible tatoos and that’s according to the vet’s trying to read them with a black light.

Sorry, but I have to still disagree, if there is going to be a market for TB’s it’s going to be a larger market if papers are available.

I understand, if you can’t prevent a horse from racing, you don’t want the papers to go with them. I am saying, YOU, AS RACEHORSE OWNERS, are the only ones that will have the clout to get the Jockey club to ever change that. I am suggesting that you work to do that. It’s the only way you will maximize the ability to find homes for the TB’s after their racing career is over.

I think TB’s are superb for eventing and showing but it is harder and harder to get buyers to look at OTTB’s instead of the quieter warmbloods. We ALL need to ensure that TB’s have a place to go after racing. I think papers are becoming much more important.

I’m just trying to explain what it’s like in my neck of the woods.

[Laurierace]

While I agree with you that non-racing papers are something we should all be pressuring the JC to provide as an eventer I have trouble understanding why you would need papers to event a TB. My guy is a 24 year old TB who is still eventing to this day although not a high as he did in his prime. He doesn’t even have a tattoo let alone papers. I board at an eventing barn where probably 95% of the horses are TBs and would venture to guess that maybe one or two of their owners have possession of their papers. Never stopped them from eventing either.