my Lab/hound mix–adopted at 6 months old–is the most loving dog ever, to everyone, but has a very independent personality as well(the hound in her). I thought that as she got older (she is currently 3)she would settle down enough to walk nicely on a leash, but this isn’t happening. She’s so crazily scent-oriented that she doesn’t check in with me and doesn’t get that pulling isn’t ok. Reprimands have not worked. An attempt at clicker training didn’t work. I don’t like the idea of choke chains or other aversive measures and don’t know what to do. Every other dog I’ve dealt with has wanted to please in some way and has responded to training based on this. She loves me but wants her way, and, at 60 pounds, is half my weight, not fun or easy to deal with.
Any suggestions?
I do use an EZ Walk harness when I have to, but just really want her to get that dogs and their people have to cooperate!
A quick, correctly done training collar correction is going to be far more kind to the dog than nagging at it and letting it choke itself as it drags you along.
Having had Rhodesian Ridgebacks for about 15 years I understand your frustration. You can get them to walk on a loose leash. I trained mine on flat collars and harnesses. You don’t need a choke chain. What you do need is to be consistent and unambiguous in your cues. For example I clip my leashes to a belt on my waist. This way when the dog hits the end of the leash the correction is immediate -as opposed to your hands that give before they stop. You can’t help it -they’re on hinges!
Paula
have you tried one of those dog halters? it looks like a muzzle but its not - it’s for being on leash. I think they may be called a gentle leader? they work great - at least on goldens, who also have a nose… but are quite easily trained too…
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7285988]
Having had Rhodesian Ridgebacks for about 15 years I understand your frustration. You can get them to walk on a loose leash. I trained mine on flat collars and harnesses. You don’t need a choke chain. What you do need is to be consistent and unambiguous in your cues. For example I clip my leashes to a belt on my waist. This way when the dog hits the end of the leash the correction is immediate -as opposed to your hands that give before they stop. You can’t help it -they’re on hinges!
Paula[/QUOTE]
The dog is only gonna be corrected in this example if it’s lunging forward and hitting the end of the leash, Not gonna do a single thing if the dog is just leaning on the leash choking itself.
You can do collar corrections with a regular collar you just may need to make the corrections a lot bigger which is going to be as ‘harsh’ or more ‘harsh’ a correction that a quick, more light, training collar correction.
[QUOTE=gingerbread;7285874]
but just really want her to get that dogs and their people have to cooperate![/QUOTE]
As far as she’s concerned, she’s got you cooperating very nicely 
Now that it’s gone on for 3 years, it will take rather more effort & 100% consistency on your part to change the stats quo - have you done any training classes with her?
Start there.
You might also read up on Nothing In Life Is Free
you don’t need the dog to want to please or use aversives or even a clicker; what you need is to work with the dog. The dog is pulling because the dog wants to go somewhere; you just need to convince the dog that a) pulling doesn’t get you anywhere, and b) not-pulling does. It’s all about the other end of the leash being 100% consistent in the rules. It’s a trading game- the dog wants something- anything- and so you teach the dog that in order for the dog to get what it wants, it has to give you something in exchange. Dogs who REALLY want something, like the chance to sniff, or a ball, or to chase a squirrel, are the easiest kind of dog to train. Be glad the dog REALLY wants something- sniffing. Easy peasy to train a dog that wants something that is so easy to provide. My toughest dog to train didn’t really want anything much.
I’d suggest using a prong collar if you’re being over-powered and can’t actually stop the dog from dragging you around, but otherwise it’s just all about being consistent. Taut leash means we don’t move, slack leash means we move. It will probably take less than a week to re-train the dog if you, the human, stick to the rules. Don’t try to actually exercise the dog on leash during this week- you might not cover more than ten feet the first couple of sessions.
It might help to do something with the dog that uses her nose- try some tracking or nosework? so she can satisfy her instincts in an appropriate way. Teach her to find your keys or something. Very handy to have a dog that can find lost keys.
http://www.softouchconcepts.com/index.php/product-53/sense-ation-harness
This a excellent tool for training dogs to walk correctly. I love them. They are kind and they work - ten times better then any harsh methods.
I would also look into getting her mind doing something, take some nose work classes and start channeling that energy into something more positive.
http://www.boulderhumane.org/training-behavior/course/introduction-k9-nose-work®-6
As well, as classes such a Controlled Unleashed.
http://www.controlunleashed.net/controlunleashed.html
[QUOTE=ElisLove;7286101]
The dog is only gonna be corrected in this example if it’s lunging forward and hitting the end of the leash, Not gonna do a single thing if the dog is just leaning on the leash choking itself.
You can do collar corrections with a regular collar you just may need to make the corrections a lot bigger which is going to be as ‘harsh’ or more ‘harsh’ a correction that a quick, more light, training collar correction.[/QUOTE]
That’s not quite right, sorry. When he leans on the collar you have to stop -quite simple. The reason the dog slowly chokes himself by leaning on the collar is because the reward is that he moves forward. Simply stopping until he stops pulling and then starting the walk again works very nicely. The challenge is that if the dog has been rewarded for pulling for a while it might take a moment to get him to try something new.
There is absolutely no need for jerking or anything of the sort.
Paula
Paula - just curious, because your dogs are big. Did you worry about getting pulled over if one of them decided to lunge at something? I could see doing this w/ my 25 lb bugger, but not the 60+.
[QUOTE=2tempe;7287260]
Paula - just curious, because your dogs are big. Did you worry about getting pulled over if one of them decided to lunge at something? I could see doing this w/ my 25 lb bugger, but not the 60+.[/QUOTE]
No kidding…there is NO way I’m attaching my 90lb Dobe to me! One wrong move and my ass is hitting the dirt!
[QUOTE=2tempe;7287260]
Paula - just curious, because your dogs are big. Did you worry about getting pulled over if one of them decided to lunge at something? I could see doing this w/ my 25 lb bugger, but not the 60+.[/QUOTE]
No it was never an issue I had 2 at a time connected to my waist. I’m not a small person so maybe that makes a difference. The one time this happened Yoshi was on a 50 ft line and we were running through the park and I stopped before he did LOL. So it wasn’t a training issue -it was a not-thinking-ahead issue. Typically I walked them on a 25ft line.
ETA I wonder if it’s leverage? I mean take a noob and ask him or her to hold a horse and s/he will use a technique guaranteed to get him/er pulled off his/er feet! Take someone who is used to horses and you’ll see a much different technique. It’s not that the horse person is heavier -it’s got to be leverage.
And these are Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Yoshi was 110lbs ish.
Hey, you can always use the technique to train the loose leash walk (for you and the dog because you’ll learn timing too) and then just walk your dog in your hand.
Paula
[QUOTE=vtdobes;7287281]
No kidding…there is NO way I’m attaching my 90lb Dobe to me! One wrong move and my ass is hitting the dirt![/QUOTE]
? You are just stopping until the dog releases the pressure on the leash and then continuing walking. There is no attaching the dog to you.
all interesting suggestions. I did do a training class with her when I first got her, but it was a huge class of mixed dogs, she was not a star, and we didn’t get the help we needed!
What kind of training/ correction collar is the right kind and what is “correct” as far as using it?
I’ve tried not moving an inch when she pulls, but have found that I can’t tolerate not going anywhere! It’s my issue! I could try this again, when I have the time to really stick to it. She is really strong-willed however…and adorable… has found out how to get over on me for awhile now! She does respect the rules of the house we have set–no jumping on the furniture for instance, no chasing the cat! but gets so incredibly excited by all the smells of the great outdoors, goes into a zone I have trouble penetrating.
I don’t have this kind of issue with my 2 horses—they seem to want to be partners(my mare especially thrives on it) and do listen to me. Different species, different dynamics. I guess I have a different attitude towards them, and they came to me already --very correctly–trained. They are beloved pets too–we keep them at home and they get their fair share of affection and treats–but they are not as close as a dog is.
What is “nosework”? Seems that using her passion might be a positive way to go.
[QUOTE=wendy;7286586]
I’d suggest using a prong collar if you’re being over-powered and can’t actually stop the dog from dragging you around, but otherwise it’s just all about being consistent. Taut leash means we don’t move, slack leash means we move. It will probably take less than a week to re-train the dog if you, the human, stick to the rules. Don’t try to actually exercise the dog on leash during this week- you might not cover more than ten feet the first couple of sessions.
.[/QUOTE]
This will work if you can develop the proper timing, which is not easy. The instant there is slack in the leash, you move and the nanosecond there is a taut leash you halt and by god so does dog.
Must you leash walk her? I ask because I have one I gave up on. She doesn’t have to walk on a leash because she lives on a farm with plenty of fenced room for her to exercise. And she has a Brittany I gave her to exercise and train - she’s done a bang-up job, too. She’s a great farm dog. But she ain’t never gonna be a dog who walks on a leash.
However, I can even get She-who-will-not-walk-on-a-leash-without-both-our-blood-pressures-skyrocketing to walk nicely using wendy’s technique, so if your dog must leash walk, try that.
I taught my dogs how to “heel” by stepping infront of them each time they wanted to go infront of me. It irritated the crap out of them. It irritated the crap out of me, and yes I landed on my ass a few times. But now, as soon as I say “heel” they are both at my side and not even thinking of passing me or taking off in another direction.
I do, however, allow them to walk infront of me on leash as well. They know the difference between walking on their terms and walking on mine. They respect it, so I allow them their freedom (on leash) as well.
A training collar (some people call it a choke collar) is a great collar to use for this. There is also another type of collar that works great that I can’t think of the name of it. It allows you to clip it almost back onto itself so you can position the collar closer to the dog’s head where your corrections are at their most effective meaning that you can use the softest corrections. Think of these types of collars and corrections like someone using spurs for lateral work. If you don’t have spurs on and your horse ignores your cue to move over you might have to kick your horse in the side to reinforce your ‘move over cue’. These are very loud, cumbersome corrections and not totally effective. If you have a spur on, you just lightly apply it to your horse’s side and get as much or more reaction from your horse than without a spur and you trying to kick them over. A more elegant and ‘humane’ way to get something done.
It actually distributes the pressure around the neck instead of all the pressure being on the front of the throat. You want it to have about 3 inches of extra chain when you have it on your dog and when put in on the dog you want it to look like a “P” not a “q” since you walk with the dog on your right so that it can release immediately.
You want to make your training sessions fun for your dog. You want to have his attention and be interesting to him so he thinks walking politely on the leash is the best thing since sliced bread and the small corrections you do are quick, effective, and then done and it’s back to fun time.
Use an area that’s big enough to walk and run back and forth in. You want to constantly be changing up your face from fast to slow, changing directions at random, talking happily to your dog.
Your dog is allowed about 4 feet of leash and it can go anywhere in that 4 feet of leash as long as it doesn’t ever lean against it. If you’re are going along and the dog loses it’s attention and gets too close or leans against that leash you can either, give a ‘pop’ on the leash by setting your hand (if it’s a big dog you could brace your hand against your hip if you need) and taking a quick step back, or you can just completely quickly change direction and the correction will come on it’s own. You don’t want the dog to go ‘ow that hurt!’ you want the dog to go ‘whoa, what was that?’ and you go back to having fun, always repeating the part the dog got wrong. So if he was particularly interested in something and that’s why he lost concentration bring him close to it again and see if he remembered his lesson. If he did, try it a time or 2 more and TONS of praise. Let him have a play session with a toy or a treat (with a scent dog make SURE you never accidentally drop a treat and let them get it off the ground or sniffing the ground will be all they think about haha). If the dog didn’t remember, quick pop or direction change and try again.
You should never have to correct more than 3 times before your dog ‘gets’ what you are trying to do. If you have to do it more than 3 times, your corrections are not being effective. Either the timing is wrong, the technique it wrong, or you need to be more assertive.
Make sure you start out in a quiet area with not a lot of distractions as you want the dog to succeed as much as possible. And keep sessions shorter initially so he absorbs what he’s learning and has fun! You always want training to be fun! You want you dog to be like ‘this is so much fun, wheee" Then if a correction is made ’ whoa what was that? hey it’s back to being fun Wheee!’
As your dog learns what is expected, you can introduce more and more stimuli as well as adding in periods where you are silent and just walking to test his training and attention cause eventually when he’s got a good amount of training you don’t want to be having to dance and play your whole walks, you want to just go for relaxing walks. You increase these lengths of silence, still always making sure to correct for any mistakes, and repeat what resulted in the mistake to ensure that he did actually take away what you wanted him to. You can also add in other commands such as sit or down to add other elements as well!
These types of training sessions are high energy and lots of fun for your dog making it great bonding time as well as being very effective. It’s also great exercise (for both you AND him) and as they say ‘a tired (trained) dog, is a good dog’
BTW, I have seen other training groups who don’t believe in any corrections and you have people walking their dogs in circles one after another, just HOLDING their dog in heel position as it chokes itself on it’s flat collar. Not only does it seem super tiring for the owner trying to hold their 80 pound dogs into position, but the dog is choking itself and bored out of it’s mind at walking slowly in a circle and not learning anything other than to lean on the collar, and walk slowly next to it’s owner as the owner tries desperately to keep them in place. I’d rather effective corrections while my dog is having a great time.
Indeed there are people who don’t use flat collars properly just as there are people who don’t use chokes and prongs properly. I have learned -with horses and dogs -that training is in the release. The whole idea is a loose leash heel -even when I allow my dogs to range (I walk dogs on a 25 foot line) it is never taut. I regularly see one dog walker whose dog pulls and this person has the dog on a prong on a flexi. No surprise the dog pulls IMO.
I have said it and I’ll say it again; it’s not about the tool, it’s about the technique.
Paula
It takes a lot of skill to learn how to use a choker properly, and they are very useless for teaching loose-leash walking. Why? because you don’t let the dog choke itself, what you do is POP the dog, namely yank painfully on his neck, and in order to do this you have to put a bit of slack in the leash and then pop. So the dog learns slack leash/ painful pop. Not what you want to teach. Prong collars are self-correcting. The dog leans into it, it pinches, the dog doesn’t lean, it doesn’t pinch. Presto.
If you want to teach heel rather than loose leash walking, that is a completely different skill. I suggest looking into “choose to heel” methods, they produce very impressive, fast results. I personally don’t like to do regular walks with my dogs at heel, though (we have very narrow trails) so I train both loose-leash walking and heel.
I’d not suggest tying your dog to you. You could end up seriously hurt. Where is the horse-person in you? you don’t wrap the leash around your wrist, you don’t tie the dog to you unless you have a quick-release. And yes, I’ve been briskly dragged on my back behind a dog when the leash got tangled around one ankle- that was fun, we could have both died in the road. Also broken a finger when a leash suddenly went sideways.
