LOYALTY

[RedHotMama]

If there is one thing that I have grown to hate in the horse world, it is the barn hopper who is disloyal.
Most of the time, a nice trainer finds a horse for a student and takes lots of time to help the rider and the green horse out and even loans out blankets, boots, bridles, halters and such while the new owner is getting his feet wet and deciding what to buy and as soon as the new horse is going good, another trainer “courts” him to come to their barn and without a look back or a thank you, off they go.
The next time you see them, they have bought a new bridle, a new Butet and are decked out like they are the show circuit queen themselves and you wonder why you ever helped them out. The year or two you spent riding and training their horse and teaching them will be forgotten and someone else will get the glory.
Something that I learned a long time ago, but what I can never seem to keep in mind until something like that happens, is the more you do for someone the more they expect and the less they appreciate it and when they move on they brag about paying someone to take off and put on their horse’s blanket (which you did free), turn out their horse (which you did free), let them use your clippers and tack (they didn’t even replace stuff when they wore it out or broke it) and shared the vet call everytime to save them a few bucks plus much much more.
GO FIGURE!
I guess I should feel lucky if they say HI.
Is Loyalty a forgotten word?

[This message has been edited by RedHotMama (edited 11-02-2000).]

[Mazzy]

I’ve been with my trainer for almost 7 years (ever since I got back into riding, post Biz school). It is a relationship based on loyalty but only to the point that loyalty makes sense. My trainer’s moto is what goes around comes around, and that’s the truth. He too had a kid leave after donating time, lessons, blankets etc. By next year the kid was moving through the ranks faster than I, reaching goals and doing it in a Hermes saddle atop a fabulous expensive A/O jumper…heading for the Grand Prix ring. Did I doubt my trainer…hey I’m human.

But we progressed at our own pace. He continued to stress continuing education (he rides with his “trainer”) and takes me to numerous clinics. Then the time came to buy the greenies, and then attempt to move into the A/O jumpers. And vola, slowly its coming together. He is one of my best friends, showing w/ him is a riot. We’ve carved a strong relationship w/ his trainer as our mentor together.

Interesting fact this past summer. The kid that left…was going to ride in the Grand Prix at such and such and landed up in the Children’s jumpers at blah blah (not to mention names) and smashed her horse through a fence in a dangerous, aggresive attempt to win the class (yes, she was mad that she had to ride in the Children’s). Kid went to hospital, horse is done. Boys are starting to look more interesting to kid and maybe riding sucks after all!!

My trainer and I just smile at each other and repeat, “What goes around had a funny way of coming back at ya!” Honesty, openess, ego-in-check, sense of humour and a shared bad habit (Marlboro Lights)…works for us.

To the trainers: sorry you lose some, but sometimes best gone, don’t trade your ethics.

To the riders: pick someone and give them a *&$!! chance to make a difference, riding takes time more than anything else. If it was n’t so hard to do, we wouldn’t be so fascinated.

[MKFSVR]

I am interested in these comments. I have been in three barns in the two years I have been riding. I liked the people in each barn, but my goals kept changing as I learned more as a beginner adult and that meant changing barns and finding different trainers. The progression has been from basic learning, trail riding to a few local shows to many local hunter shows to “A” jumpers. Each barn has been great for what I needed at the time, but I have dramatically changed the direction of my riding. It was tough to leave friends, but I knew the time had come. What a journey!

[Sleepy]

Exactly, AdultHunterRider. I do feel like I am being nickeled and dimed to death. And I am not even in a training barn just a boarding barn that has a trainer come in to teach. This man is foreign and rude and doesn’t even speak to those who aren’t his students. But since they do have a trainer, that probably means that I couldn’t bring my old trainer in should I desire a lesson sometime. Not planning to show, so not likely.

I like the owners but some of the things they do drive me crazy. The latest is having to pay for stall mats. To me, the need for stall mats is caused by improperly prepared ground when the barn was built coupled with being too cheap to bed correctly. But then that would raise the board, right.

I admit that I was spoiled at the place I boarded for 20 years. We did not have a laundry list of rules like this place does. The 2 things that really make me crazy are the barn hours and being closed holidays. If I decide to leave, that will be the reason. But it’s a trade-off. I will have to completely analyze the pros/cons of this barn and any prospective new barn in order to move. Right now location + care is winning.

[This message has been edited by Sleepy (edited 11-03-2000).]

[RedHotMama]

When I started this topic, I had no idea it would get so many replies, etc. And yes, the horse just smashed a brand new bucket by throwing it in the air when he was eating, but I didn’t charge for it. After reading all these posts and very helpful suggestions from this angle especially comments by other barn owners, but mainly from those who board their horses away from home, I have come to the following conclusion: Everything needs to be written down and made clear at the beginning of the business relationship. My services are worth as much as anyone else’s who does the same thing at their facility and
it is always better if someone moves on when and if they want to. Staying would just make everyone miserable and this way hopefully the friendship will be salvaged.
Thanks, guys!

[G11]

As a junior, I’d like to offer my view on this…

I am completely loyal to my trainers; I would never even think to start looking for another trainer around school without their input and help. But usually the reason a person leaves a particular barn is because they’re not happy there. Once you find the barn that suits you best, you’re most probably gonna stay there. I know that this is true for me. Over the past two years, I’ve been shuffled to and from several trainers and I finally found my niche, the right training program where my horse and I get exactly what we need and where I completely and totally trust and “click with” my trainers. I don’t plan on looking for a new trainer in quite a long while (knock on wood - my superstitious side coming through ). Anyways, thats just my opinion on it

[This message has been edited by Jax (edited 11-02-2000).]

[DMK]

You know, I have seen cases of a person dumping a trainer who is probably appropriate for them, and doesn’t seem to be taking them for a ride (i.e., buying the right horse, showing at the right level and so on…)

Unfortunately, I have also seen the following…

• Student has progressed beyond point where trainer can truly further advance them, but trainer isn’t ethical/honest enough (or is too financially desperate) to send student up to more appropriate trainer… (this usually makes for the MOST charming case of the Grapes of Wrath at Your Local Showground)

• Client is taken TOTALLY for granted, almost to the point of rudeness, and certainly past the point where it is a good business relationship (You have to ask yourself, would you accept this treatment from ANYONE else you gave this much money in return for some service?)

• Client now expects to be treated like a royalty, because he/she feels like he/she must rule supreme after being royally screwed in last relationship (Note: this rarely stops another screwing, but does give client a mistaken impression of control during said relationship with a screwdriver)

Fortunately, overall I have seen a lot more people who appear to be in good, functional relationships with their trainer, or if they are not, they make a change with both parties being comfortable with it.

Ain’t the majority of life so much more boring than the juicy extreme cases?

[ponymom138]

We are going thru the decision process now re: changing trainers. Our trainer is the most wonderful person. Dedicated, thoughtful and almost like a second mother to my daughter. Why on earth would we leave her!? Well, she has a full time job ( outside the horses) and a hubby who lives in a different state due to job relocation.Now she has helped us bring our "found in field "project to amazing abilities, but… she usually can’t go to any shows (job, hubby)and doesnt seem to be in the showing “loop” so to speak. Daughter and horse have progressed to the point where she is doing A shows and needs a trainer with her( we have begged the services of the person who trains most everybody at the barn for shows and she has been great about it but one I dont think its fair and two I think the person who schools you should have a good idea of you and your horses capabilities.)We would also like someone who could set up a show schedule, help us pick where to go etc.If we leave I will feel horrible but should we sacrifice potential sucess for this. I get sick to my stomach every time I think about telling the trainer. Yes we have mentioned wanting more help in these areas but not stridently. She is now telling my daughter it will build independence not to have a trainer at the shows (she is 15). I am so conflicted. So to make a long story short and as others have stated, its not always easy but sometimes the baby birds need to fly from the nest.Now if someone could just give me a kick in the butt so we can leave the nest!!

[RedHotMama]

Cactusskate, you are absolutely right and I just didn’t see it. Like when I do the board bills and the horse has broken a halter or smashed a bucket, I usually think, oh well, it is petty to put the $5 for the bucket on the bill but it mounts up over the months. It is the same when doing the “little” things for the boarders like making the vet appointment, holding the horse for the xrays, where is the boarder anyway? and then paying the bill and having to wait for the money to come back in. If I ask for it, they snarl at me and say, I didn’t bring my checkbook and I crawl away with my tail between my legs. I don’t think I was cut out to be a business manager so along with all the other jobs I have I need one of those. I would also like to replace me with a barn manager, a stall cleaner, an exercise rider, a riding instructor, a secretary and the list goes on and on.
I am too close to the boarders, the students and the horses. I guess that is why it hits so close to home when someone gives you 30 days notice out of the blue and you don’t know why and no one, absolutely no one at the barn had the smallest inkling that this was coming. And yes, I am stupid. I found her the nice green hunter and since I wanted her to have a great horse unlike her own purchase that was simply terrible, I waived a commission to help her out, thinking she would be here for a while and I would get training fees and riding fees and later on showing fees, etc. Bad planning and bad business! : I wonder if I will ever learn?!?

[DMK]

Sleepy - my attitude upon being asked to pay for stall mats would be, “Sure, and of course, they go with me when I leave?” Some costs are just part of running a full board operation, and generally “structural improvements” are one of them!!!

I have no problem being charged for supplies being used on my horse (fly spray, shampoo, etc.) or for services being performed such as holding the horse for the vet or farrier if he can’t be tied, giving a horse shots, clipping, and so on. I have also been in situations where all the boarders agreed to split the cost of additional footing for the ring (but this was NOT a business/full board arrangement).

[ProzacPuppy]

RedHotMama- Your comment about “everything needs to be written down” reminded me of our first boarding stable. The board contract was 12 typed pages long. Talk about getting all the rules down on paper- it was sort of like the “barn handbook”. On the bright side- it left nothing to be guessed about.

[Twister]

This just couldn’t be truer! The more I did for someone, the sooner they were someone else’s customer!

I do not think staying with the same trainer for ever and ever is necessarily a good thing and I think the reason people sort of sneak out in the dead of night, so to speak, is because the relationship does get so close. Owning a show horse is not about the trainer, it is about the owner and people will be changing.

I always appreciated the people who said, ‘We are going to ride with so and so for a while.’ I always told them they were not burning any bridges and if it didn’t work out they were welcome to return. (Assuming they were welcome to return. Troublemakers usually leave, too!)

The only time I was ever truly unhappy was in a situation was when I sold a pony I personally owned to some of my customers at a reduced price, thinking that the pony was pretty fancy and the sooner someone else was paying showing it, the sooner I could sell it’s full brother for a lot of money. Well, they kept the pony at home and I didn’t see it for six months. Until of course it was so spoiled, they could do nothing with it. They changed trainers and I didn’t find out until I called about picking up the older daughter’s horse to take it to a show. Thanks for all the advance warning, guys! What if I hadn’t called first and had just shown up in the driveway???

Anyway, to make a long story longer, the new trainer called me up and blessed me out for selling these nice people such a piece of crap and he wasted no time in telling everyone where it had come from.

I did just fine in the end, though because his brother ended up being a big winner and I made my first trip to Indoors with that pony. The best part was we sold it for an absolutely unreasonable amount of money and my comission on the sale was more than I had sold it for in the first place!

[wtywmn4]

Agree with Jane’s post completely! If the people in the barn are nice, easy to get along with and enjoy just being there, everything works. The atmosphere is positive, lessons end up being fun. Barn hopper’s are everywhere. Let em hop on out!

DD20 isn’t what that person is doing illegal? Thought that when you rescue a horse, they weren’t to be sold, but placed?

[Mazzy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ponymom138:
Now if someone could just give me a kick in the butt so we can leave the nest!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey PonyMom,
I’m sure there are loads of trainers looking for someone like you and would give you the perverbial kick in the butt. Why not asking your beloved trainer for her recommendations and have the hand-off happen correctly. If she blows up…then you don’t need to be sick about it! If she changes…yippee, no need to move. If you find the next best person through her, then you always have a place to return too…its a small word and too many clients burn bridges, IMHO.

[hunterprincez]

What really makes me mad is when you have put in four years with this certain trainer and shown heavily with this trainer and paid them boatload of money and you finally think that you have found a trainer that you really like but wait, the all mighty dollar shows its ugly head. Your trainer gets a new boarder and all of the sudden the whole dynamics of the barn have changed. Your fun everyone likes everyone barn where everyone is equal turns into a back stabbing, gossiping who is the most special because that is who we are going to cater to barn. That has happened to me twice and I am up to here with it!! What makes trainers dump there loyal long time customers just because some new person comes to the barn. From my past expereinces that new person stays awhile them moves on, quits riding ect.

[Cactuskate]

I think AHR brings up a very good point. When establishing a fee structure I would prefer to have taken in to account the “replacement” expenses that come with normal wear and tear. You do have to consider it a cost of doing business. However this does mean the monthly cost would be greater to cover those anticipated costs.

As an owner I have been in the same situation. Every thing was an add on. Extra fee for bran and NSF, some ridiculous amount like 11.70/mo. Then 15.00/mo to pull blankets. At the time the base board was 150.00. I would have gladly paid a flat amount of 185.00/ mo year round. It is easier to budget and so a few months you don’t do blankets, big deal.

The adding on of fees is a poor pyschological approach to doing business. To me it is like buying a car and then being asked, “Oh you wanted a steering wheel? That will be 1000.00 extra. Brakes? Add on 1500.00 more.”

Just give me an all inclusive price and I will decide if I can afford it or not. And most importantly the Fee schedule is on paper. I hate surprises.

[BeeLu]

When I bought my horse, the old owner said “You should train with ____” I took one lesson and was a mess. Not wanting to look bad, or hurt someones feelings, I stayed with the trainer for a LONG 5 months. She finally did a few things that pushed me over the edge. The next barn I went to nickeled and dimed. The trainers and I disagreed on EVERYTHING, right down to being able to hug my horse. She used my tack in lessons and my horse. I left after 4 months there. I moved my horse back to the place where I was first, and am happily still there. (well, I went down the road, and then moved back to that place) Right after summer, I turned my horse out for some R&R. I love the place I am at now. The boarders are nice (Co op barn) Management is great… They feed Am/Lunch/PM, sweep, water, provide an indoor and outdoor ring, trails nearby, lockers, poop pickup, shavings, wheelbarrows, rubber mats in aisle, and a paddock attached to the stall.
We have very nice new footing. WE are responsible for any turnout, mucking, and exercise. However, you are charged a fine if you dont muck, since this is in a place where horses arent loved by all. 6 trainers that you can pick from, or train elsewhere. None of the trainers are h/j (We have 1 western/beginner, 2 dressage, 1 claim to be dressage, and 2 3day) I train with someone who comes and teaches 2 x a month there, and with someone 2 x a week.

[suniday]

Jax is right about people usually change due to being unhappy. I have owned my horse for six years. We have been in 4 different “boarding” stables. The first one was the trainer I bought him from. His wife and I couldn’t get along and then I wasn’t spending enough money (even though we discussed that at the beginning) so he stopped giving me my full lessons, etc. That one lasted almost a year. I moved him to a friends barn - BIG mistake - we are no longer friends. She wasn’t feeding most of the time and my horse was about 200 pounds underweight within five months. The next place I was at for 2 1/2 years. I was the first boarder. I finally had to leave for my horse’s health. The owner started going to FL for the winter and not taking care of the place. The groom wasn’t doing a very good job. My horse was on meds and wasn’t getting them properly, etc. The last place I was absolutely pleased with. I only left there because we built our own place. I WILL take my horse back to the last place any time I go out of town! I totally trust the groom and the facility is kept in good condition.

So, yes, some people leave for different reasons. If they are unhappy, then you really don’t want them there anyway! You know the saying about one bad apple.

If someone bad mouths you, remember that what goes around comes around. Just like what happened in Twister’s case. It is hard at the time it happens, but it’s funny how things have a way of working out.

Sorry this is so long.

[Canter]

Well how about my friend who was the very picture of “loyalty” - 20 years with the same trainers/barn.

When she switched jobs she had to miss 6 shows in order to make the job transition. She didn’t feel comfortable not being able to focus on showing with the job thing distracting her.

What did these people do? They asked her to leave!!

Told her that if she didn’t go to every single show she wasn’t welcome to stay, that they had a waiting list with anxious potential boarders dying to get in.

When she told me this story you could have knocked me over with a feather.

[ccoronios]

When I was training, I had some of this situation - but more from parents than students. I had several kids who didn’t come from wealthy families; who made sacrifices to ride and own a horse. So I bartered with them - they’d feed a couple nights a week (when I had late lessons) and I wouldn’t charge shipping to a show/hunt. Word came back that I made the kids do all the work.

But I’ll tell you what hurt a whole lot worse than these strangers. I taught my niece how to ride on my nationally known, very versatile gelding. She started leadline and went into Walk-Trot and knew how to adjust strides, maneuver tight turns, use her legs and hands independently - all before she ever cantered!

And when it came time for her to buy a horse, (she’d decided on h/j, since that’s dominant where she lives), I found a made, sound, honest mare who’d been winning at good sized shows in the NE and who’d taken her kid from Pre-Children’s into Medal & Maclay. Her Little-Miss-Super-Trainer informed the professional who had this mare that she needed to be completely retrained, she wasn’t close to suitable for the level of competition (Children’s) (horse puckies) - and (implied) I couldn’t possibly know anyone or anything about a horse of the appropriate quality. So SHE sold my niece an attractive, young totally green OTB gelding - who’d had a broken leg and who needed rather regular chiro/massage work, special shoeing, etc. For $5000. Now, granted, that’s a pittance in the world of show horses, but I dare say I (and many others!) could have found something that at LEAST had 4 decent legs. Board/vet/ shoeing bills were close to twice that a year!

When I retired my old gelding, I gave this kid well over $1000 of equipment, tack, etc. Narry a thank you.

Be HAPPY it happens with strangers… You don’t have to like them!! And, yeah, even after several years, I’m just a little bitter. Ah well…