I left a trainer who probably saw me in the same light as you do, RedHot. However, my view was quite different. the trainer purchased a farm 30 minutes further away, and I moved with them since I was pregnant at the time. The new farm needed a lot of work, and they gave us a timetable for when the indoor, cross country jumps, 2 outdoors, etc were to be built. And raised the board to pay for all this stuff. 2 years later, there was just one outdoor and none of the other stuff in sight. Plus, all of a sudden we were required to go to x shows and take x lessons. the trainer was very upset when I left, but my checkbook was no longer healthy, and the drive out there was killing me. I basically had to make a choice between my trainer and my family/job/finances.
Actually, at my current barn you do get a fee schedule when you sign your contract. But the list of add-ons is a page long. The latest is a fee for parking your trailer. Mine will stay at home, assuming I get a new truck to even be able to pull it again.
I agree that it should just be a set price. Of course, that would probably push the board up to $600 and horsie would be coming home. My brother-in-law thinks I should just build a new barn anyway.
[This message has been edited by Sleepy (edited 11-03-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=âip-ubbcode-quoteâ><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CAH:
[B]Iâve boarded in a variety of barns in my lifetime. I also have worked in a variety of barns. And while I have never been the owner of a property or a trainer, I have been close enough to several people to see both sides of the issue. Many GOOD points have been made here. Let me add the following.
As a boarder, I
- Pay my board ON TIME. At the beginning of the month, if that is what is asked for. Do not bounce checks, ever.
- Do NOT âborrowâ other peopleâs suppliesâŠand I donât expect to âloanâ my supplies out unless previous arrangements have been made. That does not mean I am selfish - it means ASK ME first.
- I do not expect âspecial treatmentâ for my horse. I am a hands on person. I schedule a vet appt, a farier, etc, then I am there. If barn help must hold my my horse, then I either compensate the help or the ownerâŠwhoever held my horse. I have been barns where one farrier came in and did the horses on the owner/trainer schedule. Convienent - yes. But frankly I like my choice.
- Do not leave âelaborateâ instructions for barn help or owners like mentioned earlierâŠblanket A for temp above 36 degrees, blanket B for temps 37- 44 degrees, etc etc. Donât laugh. Iâve seen it done. IMO, if you WANT special treatment, then come provide the special treatment for YOUR horse. Or expect to pay for it!
- My horse has a fetish for destroying water buckets. Not normal wear and tear. He destroys it, I replace it. Period.
- As a trainer, remember that you canât please all the people all the time. People always are looking for the âbargainâ. The grass is always greener in the other paddock, until you get there.
- As a trainer or owner, donât take advantage of the boarder. Do not use my horse or tack for your business, unless prior arrangements have been made. Do not look at me as the cash cow or someone to pay your farm payment. Ask me, if possible. Donât hit me with those âunexpectedâ charges.
- Finally, as an horse owner, if you are going out of town, LEAVE EMERGENCY INFO. WHere you can be reached. Make sure someone has authority to treat. Insurance info. What your wishes are. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As an owner/trainer, I would like to give my two cents: Nothing gets me more annoyed than having to come looking for the board.When board is due PLEASE pay on time.Iâm human-I know sometimes things get a little rough. Talk to me and say that your board will be a little late this month, Iâll understand(just donât do it every month). I would appreciate this much more than you not saying a word,not showing up to the barn for a week or two, and not even making a phone call. I feel so stupid when I have to finally âremindâ boarders of their late board bills. It comes out of my own pocket to care for these horses if the board isnât paid or worse yet a check bounces.
Good post CAH!
There is another side to leaving a barn that has nothing to do with loyalty.
You can love your trainer to death, adore the barn and all the other boarders but if you have goals that are alot higher than everyone else it can get frustrating - you put in 20 hours a week at the barn and most of the others ride weekends, your jumper is working on 4â oxers and you suddenly have 9 yr olds on ponies sharing your lesson and trotting 18" poles. You want to go to big shows but the trainer wonât go with just one horse and what about all the weekend lessons?..
We are currently in discussions with a trainer who views his boarders as âcontract trainingâ- you are there for a set period of time (6 mos, a year)and you have a set goal when you sign on (âI wanna go to Indioâ). If he thinks your goal is possible he will train you for the duration of your contract with that goal in mind.
I waver between needing to have the horse do more or lowering our goals to stay at the current barn. (I am afraid if we donât give it our best shot we will eventually regret not trying for bigger thingsâŠ)
Just wanted to give another side to this discussion (tho I definitely can empathize with what yaâll have said and I know that trainers stealing riders has lately been a big problem in my area and caused a few trainers to get bitter enough to quit teaching).
Redhotmama, I could not agree with you more, especially ecause I am still stinging from losing a customer who i had done quite a bit for. When she came to me, she did not een know her diagonals, and I had her going around novice hunter courses and winning! I got them a beautiful, proven show horse and we were ready to goâŠunfortunately there are some people in this business with less scruples that you and I, and they have a sharply honed âbig checkbook radar.â Itâs a real shame, especially because you cannot help investing blood, sweat, and tears into your customers- that is the sign of a truly dedicated trainer, IMO. I find it especially hard because I am a younger professional, so I seem to be fair game to older, slimier pros⊠I am not sure this made any sense at all, I may be babbling, but email me if you want to talk further
I think I hear in the very first post, someone that is sincere in their efforts and their heart is definetly in the right place. However, did you truly think of your efforts as conducting business? If so you HAVE to charge something for it.
People will often take the âyou get what you pay forâ approach to benevolent acts. If it wasnât valuable enough to you to charge money for the product or service, then maybe they didnât think you would mind if they moved on.
It is one thing to have a fun and friendly barn. But I have found that you must set the business precedent first, and not cross the line of getting too close to your clients. Then when you HAVE to say something about a bill or a fee you charge for a service, there is the distance necessary for everyone to be comfortable.
Every week I find some situation where I feel like I am being âgreedyâ or âcheapâ in charging for some simple little task. But I remind myself that it is not illegal to make a profit, and they always have a choice of doing it themselves.
I have the investment in materials i.e. clippers, jumps, trailer, saddles, bridles and the maintenance of all above. That has a value. And my charging for the use of above is my way of recouping my investment and maintenance costs.
Oh RHM, donât be too hard on yourself. Maybe you need to rethink the structure of your business. There are alot of talented people in this world that go into business. Just because you are a good chef, doesnât mean you would be good at opening a restaurant and running it yourself. I have a friend that is a hairdresser and owns a boutique. I do her bookkeeping for her. Like she says, âShe cuts hair and knows clothes. Just tell me who to pay and how much money I do or do not have in the bank!â LOL
Maybe you need to turn over the âoperationsâ end of your business to someone. Let them be the collection bad guy, or the liason for billing questions. You can do what you do best. Schmooze with the clients, spoil their horses rotten, and indulge your giving personality. Just be sure you sit down and list a Fee Schedule. Have it printed up and in a nice way, let everyone in your barn know that you are giving this to them so there will be no misunderstandings.
Explain that in order for you to provide the care they have come to expect for their horse, you need to have some working capital, and while you love providing these services to them, you need to be compensated for your time. Since after all you are not often selling a tangible product and time is money.
I bet you would be much more comfortable with the new "structure for your business. And sometimes the clients see you in a new âprofessionalâ light.
Itâs not always the trainer/barn owner who gets the bad end of the situation though. I was pulled into a horrible argument at my old barn just because I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It wasnât fair of anyone to drag me into it, and I quit riding there.
Thankfully I was already at college, so I wasnât at a loss for barn time. 
That wouldâve made the situation even worse than it was. But I guess it was for the best since Dunn was at the barn we moved to!
Some horses are destructive, and you have to charge for the damage they do because it is way beyond normal wear and tear. A stall walker/weaver/digger will very quickly ruin a stall. The horse owner should notify the barn owner of this habit or any other destructive habits BEFORE getting into the barn. My horse was gelded late and is studdish around mares and should never be turned out with mares. Even though the barns Iâve been at separate mares and geldings, I always hand write this into my boarding contract.
If there is one thing that I have grown to hate in the horse world, it is the barn hopper who is disloyal.
Most of the time, a nice trainer finds a horse for a student and takes lots of time to help the rider and the green horse out and even loans out blankets, boots, bridles, halters and such while the new owner is getting his feet wet and deciding what to buy and as soon as the new horse is going good, another trainer âcourtsâ him to come to their barn and without a look back or a thank you, off they go.
The next time you see them, they have bought a new bridle, a new Butet and are decked out like they are the show circuit queen themselves and you wonder why you ever helped them out. The year or two you spent riding and training their horse and teaching them will be forgotten and someone else will get the glory.
Something that I learned a long time ago, but what I can never seem to keep in mind until something like that happens, is the more you do for someone the more they expect and the less they appreciate it and when they move on they brag about paying someone to take off and put on their horseâs blanket (which you did free), turn out their horse (which you did free), let them use your clippers and tack (they didnât even replace stuff when they wore it out or broke it) and shared the vet call everytime to save them a few bucks plus much much more.
GO FIGURE! 
I guess I should feel lucky if they say HI.
Is Loyalty a forgotten word?
[This message has been edited by RedHotMama (edited 11-02-2000).]
As a former boarder Iâve been on the opposite side of the coin. I tend to be too loyal to a barn/trainer-long past the point of productivity. I hate hurting peopleâs feelings. At the first barn, I wasted aproximately 6 months with a trainer that had taken us as far as she could because I felt I had a personal relationship with her. The clincher for me was discovering that her âwaterâ bottle had vodka in it during our lessons! 2nd barn I was at, my horse was flat out not receiving care she needed. Had to beg/threaten for simple things like bedding in the stall. At the last barn, I went out of my way to show appreciation to the owner/trainer.Took all the recommended clinics, private and semi-private lessons weekly. Catered dinner for her when she broke her knee, helped evacuate the property when it flooded, spent 2 full weekends rebuilding stalls/turnouts etc.Donated money. When we bought our own property and gave notice-her attitude soured immediately. In fact, she gouged me on my last bill badly (paid anyway, didnât want bad feelings) I also contracted with her to move the horses. Was supposed to have them moved on a Saturday. That Tuesday prior, she called and said she was changing the move to Wednesday.No argument possible. Spent Tuesday night desperatly finishing the fencing in the cold by flash light! She never even bothered to call to see how the horses were doing. As soon as I stopped being a cash cow-she could have cared less.
Thatâs appalling, Canter!! Hopefully that trainerâs loss turned out to be your friendâs gain, and sheâs found a new trainer that sheâs happy with.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=âip-ubbcode-quoteâ><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rosie:
Iâm curious to know if (from a trainers viewpoint) I âoweâ something more than what they are charging for their services?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope! Not at all!
What you do owe, and everyone involved owes, is respect and professionalism. If you were to leave your previous trainer to move upward, please donât start slamming her. If you decide to upgrade the horse you bought through her, donât turn it into a bad deal just because you have outgrown it. It was probably just what you needed at the time. If your trainer does mainly local shows and you decide to move on to an âAâ trainer, donât talk about her like she has suddenly become backyard.
Conversely trainers, if a client leaves you, she suddenly hasnât become a trouble-maker, bad pay, or Little League parents just because they moved on.
As I said before, I donât think it is necessary to stay with the same trainer all your life. Unless you are extremely lucky, you will probably have several. Let the relationship end gracefully.
Man you guys give good advise lol.
Like you RHM I run a boarding stable and teach lessons/coach at shows/and buy and sell horses and ponies. Just last month I had 2 boarders give me their notice to which I was shocked!! I had helped find a horse for 1 girl and had helped her for 3 years.
The other I let have another ( western ) coach come in to my barn to teach her also she had been with me for almost 4 years.
I had done so much for them including walking their horses for hours and holding them for the vet when they coliced ect ectâŠ
They gave me their reasons for leaving which I thought were pretty lame at the time ( I was hurt and angry ) Since they left I have 2 wonderfull new boarders that have moved in and I learned that people donât stay forever and sometimes no matter how much extras you do free of charge it wonât matter once they decide to leave. So now I will charge accordingly sp? and treat it as a business ( a friendly one ) and look forward to having a great new year with everyone who still boards and trains with me.
Hope this helps 
Also I think the reason we take it so personally is because when someone asks to move in and train with us and we turn them away do to lack of room and then get notice from someone a month later only to find the other interested party has now found a new barn it does irritate us.
So please if you are having problems at the barn you are at now and are looking around at new places just talk to the barn owner/trainer whoever and explain it to them who knows mabey you can reach a mutual understanding and if not at least they can expect you to give notice and it doesnât come out of left field.
Ok Iâm done 
Iâve found a place where the barn owner and trainer(s) charge for certain services. -mane pulling, clipping, etc.- and some are included in the boarding fees - meeting the vet if needed, regular scheduling of the farrier, etc. It works well for me.
Over the years, weâve developed a relationship based on mutual respect. I respect their right to make a decent living, and they respect the fact that Iâm generally a pretty good client! (I show up for lessons on time, I pay my bills on time, I love my horse(s), and if I have a complaint, I discuss it with them -NOT the other boarders!)
As I told a chronic complainer the other day - âthatâs whatâs nice about living in America. If youâre not happy where youâre at, go find somewhere where you will be.â
This is such an interesting topic! I have had a âhistoryâ of barn-hopping, as defined in the first post. Although, after reading my âtailâ, it might make the term sound almost glorious!
I bought my first horse (purebred ArabâŠand acted like it ), and kept him at an all-arab show facilityâŠeven though they subscribed to the belief that âArabs can do anythingâ, the anything stopped at jumping, thus the reason for the first moveâŠnext move was only out of necesity, as I leased him to the Duke University Equestrian teamâŠthen, I moved him when I changed schools (2 1/2 hours away) and kept him with the âbarn of terrorââŠof course, I had no idea that our happy little boarding place would change so dramatically when a four-foot midget former jockey showed up to âmanageâ the barn, which meant BAD hay and COW feed! My horse, 16 at the time, lost a HUGE amount of weight, and I sent him back to the Duke teamâŠbut, I didnât know the woman (for whatever unexcusable reason) was NOT WORMING! So, I moved him yet againâŠby the way, I was told this never happened! But, the proof was in the poopâŠa power-pac was given by my best friend luckyduck, and my horse pooped worms that were a foot long! We had to step on them to kill them! (Yet, of course, âhe was being taken care ofââŠyea! RIGHT!).
Now, I live in DurhamâŠwell, Iâve NEVER lived any closer to my horse than an hour and a half awayâŠand my trainer is not offended that once Solo is started and going well, I will likely move him to this area! But, I admit, the move will be hard. I trust in my relationship with Nicole to give her the benefit of the doubt that she will not hold a âgrudgeâ as so many horse-people do in situations like this. Weâve talked about it, and I do not believe she feels slighted by my dream to have my horse closer! And she KNOWS if she lived closer, heâd never leave her care! And, she knows that I will LISTEN to her suggestions as to what my boy needsâŠin fact, I thought I had found the perfect place for Solo, but the turnout was beautiful, yet the woman was uncomfortable with leaving my horse out for any longer than 8 hours/dayâŠwhat the heck was my horse going to DO for the other 16?! So, Nicole helped me think through this issue, and I made the hard choice to not move him there! And it sucks, because it backs up to Duke Forest, where there are TONS of WIDE trails! Point being, Nicole knows I NEED her help. I trust her completely, and love her even moreâŠhas the dynamics of being best friends and owner/boarder been easy? NO! But is it worth the extra effort? ABSOLUTELY!
I have to say, Red Hot Mama, you have introduced a much needed topic, and I am glad you did, because the perspectives are SO helpful! Thanks! !!!
Boy, did this post hit home!
I can really sympathize. And they always give notice right before Christmas or when the furnace just broke and you were counting on the training money to see you through!
I agree with txjumper, I have gone to several trainers who I really enjoyed riding with, but they kept holding me back to the level of the other riders. It is frustrating for a rider who aspires to go on to bigger shows and jumps. For example I was with one trainer for 4 years and my goal was to show in the jumpers from the beginning, and I ended up showing in novice hunter classes on the B level because she didnât go to A shows.
When I stopped riding with her she accused me of being disloyal, #1 I never bought a horse from her, #2 she wasnât helping reach my goals. I was looking out for my best interests, and for me I felt that I was wasting my time riding with her.
On the other hand I can see how it would be upsetting and frustrating for a trainer after working with a student for so long, to be lured away to another trainer who promises better things, but my advice is to be like a business person and run after that student and offer them whatever the other trainer is offering them. If the other trainer is more reasonably priced, match their pricing, or if it is a performance issue, match the other trainers offer. Just my 2 cents.
Iâm a bit confused. My trainer has âfoundâ nice horses for my daughter and I. Sheâs taught us to ride, taken us to shows, blanketed, fed, and cared for our horses. That is what we PAY her for!
Now, before I go any further, I should add that weâve been at the same barn for seven years. Love the owner. Love the trainer(s). BUTâŠIF we decided to go to another barn, I would not expect my trainer to feel like I âowed herâ anything but a reasonable explanation of why I was making a change.
She found âniceâ horses for us. We payed her a fair commission - one that she set upfront. She teaches us to ride. We pay for lessons.
She takes excellent care of our horses. We pay her stabling fees. (And we follow her rules)
Itâ s a professional (and personalâŠshe IS a friend) relationship that has give and take on both sides. Has she thrown in extra lessons or training sessions occasionally? yes. We try to do things that make her life easier sometimes too.
Iâm curious to know if (from a trainers viewpoint) I âoweâ something more than what they are charging for their services?
Well said, Twister.
