Sandra I would think that is the worst. Having it come out of left field.
Unfortunately many people have conversations in their heads and forget to include you, the owner/trainer in those conversations!
But as you say, hopefully you end up with better ones to replace the ones that move on.
I think that the structure of the board bill should be a form of âsocial engineeringâ- i.e., to encourage or discourage certain behaviors. I think that everything that is ânormal wear and tearâ should be included in the standard bill. But if you want to encourage or discourage certain behaviors, then you should make that part a la carte.
For instance, when I boarded, the basic fee included up to n (2 I think) supplements. If you wanted more, you had to pay extra. This was because dealing with more supplements took more time, and thus those boarders were costing more. The (desired) effect was that I mixed up my supplements ahead of time in little baggies. To the barn help, it was even easier than scoping out one supplement. To the barn manager, it counted as one supplement, hence no extra charge.
I also think it depends on the homogeneity of the boarders. For instance, suppose all but one of the boarders have one blanket which goes on when it is below freezing, and off when it is above freeing. Then suppose that there is one boarder who has 5 different blankets that need to go on in different combinations eveery time there is a 5 degree change (I am exaggarating to make the point. As manager, you have two choices- price the board to cover the average (in which case the âeasy blanketersâ are subsidizing the âfussyâ one) - or charge extra for the complicated balnket regimen (which might make the owner think twice about whether it really needs to be that complicated).
If something is included in the board, the boarder is more likley to take advantage of it. If it is charged out separately, the boarder is less likely to to use it.
SO- if it is something every horse in the barn SHOULD have - like a feed bucket, or regular worming - it makes sense to include it in the board. If it is something discretionary that you are trying to discourage, then charge separately.
Where you draw the line between depends on the clientelle and the atmosphere you are trying to create. It will be very different at an âjust above self care boarding barnâ than at a âfull service show/training barnâ.
As a barn mamager, and as a boarder, you must decide where the line makes sense TO YOU.
To go back to the original post, I think that doing things âfor freeâ for some clients and charging others is a bad idea. The ones you are helping may very well not appreciate it, and the ones you charge will resent the apparent favoritism. If you DO give favors, make sure everyone understands WHY.
And this whole thread reminds me of why I am glad I keep my horse at home. I pay for everything my horse uses, and i donât subsidize anybody elseâs horse.
As a boarder, nothing makes me crazy like being charged little amounts of money for every single thing. I am much happier paying one set amount of money for the full care of my horse. Our barn is set up so that everyone pays for full care which consists of blanketing, turnout, tack-ups, medications, supplemental feed, bandaging, everything imaginable. The supplemental feed is includedâŠyou donât have to buy your own feed so that there arenât a ton of trash cans full of the same stuff, owned by different people. And then there are no surprises financially if your horse has to get extra services one month because of an injury or whatever. And yes, some months one horse may get extra attention because of something, but I know and my trainer knows that if my horse needs extra care for something, there is no question that she will get the proper care. My trainer doesnât have to question whether I am going to be able to do whatever is necessary, or whether to have our guys do it. And then my trainer doesnât have to worry about coming back to me and having to charge me $5 for this and $10 for that, because I pay for full care every month (by the way, almost no barn in my area includes turnout and blanketing as part of the boardâŠboard is only a stall, cleaning, and feeding hay). And I donât have to deal with trying to sort out an itemized bill that is a page long.
On the topic of leaving, I have had to leave two trainersâŠthe first was very hard because she gave me my first opportunity to really ride by letting me groom in exchange for lessons while I was in college. She helped me find a horse that I could afford and helped me try to make something out of him. But 6.5 years later, I really needed to move on to the next level. It was very sad, since we had become very close, but the great thing was that she fully understood and supported me. There were no hard feelings, and I even visited her a few times here and there, and bought my last horse from her. This is the way I feel it should beâŠif a trainer is truely close to her clients and a friend, then she should understand when someone needs to move on to the next level. Unfortunately, a lot of clients are too scared (or feeling guilty) to be honest with the trainer as to what they want/need, and the split ends up being hostile where it could have been amiable.
Interesting angle on what is undoubtedly a common situation. I suspect that part of this is a âgrass is greenerâ attitude. The philosophy that is all too common lately is that things have to be quick and easy. If it doesnât happen at one barn, go to another, where you are sure to be quickly moved on to bigger and better things.
I have seen it happen all too often since I have been involved in the horse world. Donât have an answer though, because I am afraid that it is mostly human nature.
There are loyal boarders out there, however. I have been at my barn for 13 years, and I donât even hold the longevity record there. There are two other boarders who have been there longer. However, though we faithfully take lessons and clinics, none of us compete heavily. Is that the difference? I wonder.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=âip-ubbcode-quoteâ><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jreventer:
On the other side, what about the trainers that convince the green student to buy that beautiful, unbroke three year old or that very arthtitic gelding(which of course you donât need a vet check on, sheâs had the horse, he was sound), then of course they arenât there when it comes time to find a home for these inappropiate horses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That evil barn near me does this, they ârescueâ the worst horses and sell them as lesson horses, for OVER $1500 A PIECE! We are talking horses that she has NO IDEA how old they are, most of them ARE older. she sticks a student on for a month and calls it trained! I have known more than one person get burned by them, because she is SUCH a smooth talker and can talk people into buying just about anything! Itâs really sad!
Stealing ones customer? Please someone inform me how you âstealâ a client? If one can be stolen do you want them? Argghhh!
I have a wonderfully kind talented young man (14 years old) who came from a local show circuit. He found me on his own accord (not sure how, since i donât even advertise yet).
I was accused of stealing. Not sure why.
My point though, is how can someone be stolen? That would implicate they were bodily taken and not using free mind and willpower. I give human beings more credit than that. A lesson to be learned to all.
Treat people the way you want to be treated and you will get the same treatment back. Remember you do not own your clients and involve them in all the decision surrounding their horse and their riding and goals. When at a show, be classier than the rest, talk to everyone, and allow your clients the same privilege. If they do not feel caged in, and you can get the job done, they usually wonât leave. The only trouble that has plagued me along these lines recently is a customer who left 2 1/2 years ago (one of the 2some) and has not gone farther than they had with me, no progression beyond the 2â6" ring, and has spent 5 times the amount on their horse, and now tells people I am a con artist, unknown, going nowhere and the successIve had is a freak occurrence. Her new trainer has now made her think the way to win is to hire a name at the ingate, and that is to make up for her own incompetencies. Now, this isnât like me to even tell a story like this, but think about it?? Do I want this person back? It sounds like they still have a constant stream of turmoil in their midst and have harbored resentment and hostility towards me and anyone in my barn who is winning. This is ridiculous. I can only think this is good advetisement when my name gets thrown around a bit, what do you think?!!
Interesting âŠ
I had a conversation a few weeks ago with a friend and former client of my sisters ⊠when she left us several years ago, dazzled by the pretty new indoor up the road, I told her that I understood people leaving, moving on and up. Then I asked her if she was really sure she was moving UP. She just told me that it took a while, but now she knows the answer was NO. Sometimes, it is hard to tell the answer to that question, especially if you are relatively green yourself - it is easy to be impressed by the new, the indoor, the âclubâ room ⊠and not to see that the horsemanship and training doesnât match the setting.
I would encourage trainers and barn managers NOT to do too many things for free. If you unwrap or treat a boarderâs horse the day after a show ever once in a while and donât charge, fine. But if you unwrap or treat or handwalk on a daily basis, your board fee should reflect this or you should charge extra. Although it IS nice (from a boarderâs point of view) to have the staff do free things, it makes it hard to keep a clear view of services vs. cost. If a boarder has an issue, it is much harder to talk to the trainer/staff about it because you donât want to hurt their feelings.
Iâd rather pay a basic board rate, they pay for the add ons when necessary. That way, you are paying for what you get, and you are not subsidizing high maintenance horses by paying a higher basic board.
I worked at barns for years, and while swapping a blanket does not take long, swapping 20 blankets will add 30-45 minutes to the time it takes to turn out or bring in. And scooping out supplements to 20+ horses will add time. Pulling a bandage and cleaning off a wound takes time. You are paying the staff for the time it takes to perform a service and that is fair.
When you look at a barn and decide whether or not the price is in your range, you should ask for a pricing sheet and generously estimate what your add ons will be. Also, some barns have grooming rates where your horse will be blanketed, booted, groomed, etc for a flat rate each month.
I agree with you that not enough people are loyal these days. That is one of my biggest pet peevesâŠpeople who change vets, farriers, and trainers like they change their underwear. I see nothing wrong with changing if for say your vet wants your horse to have special shoeing that so and so does best, but because your horse didnât do well at a horse show or your vet couldnât miraciously cure the horse that has been lame for a couple of weeks but you were too busy to call him earlier. When we use a different vet or farrier we tell our why like ten years I vet didnât have an x ray machine so we used the vet school, and later showed the x rays to our vet.
On the other side, what about the trainers that convince the green student to buy that beautiful, unbroke three year old or that very arthtitic gelding(which of course you donât need a vet check on, sheâs had the horse, he was sound), then of course they arenât there when it comes time to find a home for these inappropiate horses.
I have been loyal to my trainer for 26 years. 
He did leave the state for 10 years and I rode somewhere else but as soon as he came back 8 years ago and I went right back to him. 
Now thats loyalty, because sometimes I just want to stangle him 
when we disagree but I will never leave him. I have taken lessons from other trainers, under his encourgagment, to get another view point but over all we have a great relationship.
I left one trainer who is the way you described. I like and respect her a great deal, and appreciate the help she gave me. However, she became impossible to schedule lessons with, and a lesson every 2-3 months just isnât enough to even attempt progress with. So, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. If the student leaves and has that type of attitude (that you describe), likely youâre better off without them.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=âip-ubbcode-quoteâ><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jane Ervin:
I have to say this can be true. I have become much more selective in who is âallowedâ in my barn. I now firmly believe your barn environment is better with the ârightâ type of people working together.
This is not an issue of money, but an issue of having people with the same values you have, people that respect one another without having to âactâ a certain way to gain that respect. I must say, the 2 clients I lost while I have been in the business have moved on and yes they spent more money more freely when they left. Their attitudes from what I see and here havenât changed in the least. They still talk about others much too much. I wouldnât want customers like that back with me. Sometimes things happen for a reason, and when that stall is empty it is hard, but⊠when it fills again with a ânicerâ client, the whole barn is happier! Oh and by the way, I also have viewed that the expensive horse they buy doesnât come with a manual, therefore it usually isnât the ticket to the win! They quickly find out that riding still has something to do with it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Couldnât agree more!!!
From the boarder perspective, it is frustrating to get nickel and dimed to death. I would not be happy to get charged if my horse broke his bucket. My horse literally wore out his grain bucket (loves his food that much and will lick the bucket for hours ). I was not charged for the replacement. This should be a normal cost of doing business. At the barn where I board, the boarders are responsible for their own halters. The trainer has a few extra to use until you can get a new one.
Also, why is that trainers get so defensive? In my experience if you try to bring up an issue with them, they become argumentative and defensive. Then, they wonder why no one ever brings anything up and act surprised when you give notice. Maybe the trainers should take a step back and look at their reactions to their boarders.
Iâve boarded in a variety of barns in my lifetime. I also have worked in a variety of barns. And while I have never been the owner of a property or a trainer, I have been close enough to several people to see both sides of the issue. Many GOOD points have been made here. Let me add the following.
As a boarder, I
I have to say this can be true. I have become much more selective in who is âallowedâ in my barn. I now firmly believe your barn environment is better with the ârightâ type of people working together.
This is not an issue of money, but an issue of having people with the same values you have, people that respect one another without having to âactâ a certain way to gain that respect. I must say, the 2 clients I lost while I have been in the business have moved on and yes they spent more money more freely when they left. Their attitudes from what I see and here havenât changed in the least. They still talk about others much too much. I wouldnât want customers like that back with me. Sometimes things happen for a reason, and when that stall is empty it is hard, but⊠when it fills again with a ânicerâ client, the whole barn is happier! Oh and by the way, I also have viewed that the expensive horse they buy doesnât come with a manual, therefore it usually isnât the ticket to the win! They quickly find out that riding still has something to do with it!
This is an interesting thread.
I have been with the same trainer since she returned to the business, oh, about 18 years ago. She was a bridesmaid at my wedding, so weâve obviously been through a lot together. Weâve been through some growing pains on the business level.
Relationships, of any kind, are dynamic in that they are always changing. Hopefully they are moving in a positive direction, but obviously, sometimes this canât happen and sometimes itâs just no oneâs fault. It gets even more complicated when you have a horse involved! 
Personally, I hate dischord of any kind. (Gee, who would have guessed that from my posts! LOL ) Sometimes this is beneficial in a relationship. Sometimes it is not. Sorry - getting off track here. Heck, what am I talking about. Iâve NEVER left a trainer. My first trainer passed me on to her sister. That trainer told me it was time to be a little fish in a big ocean in order to grow. Then it was on to college. My first trainer in Virginia moved away. The second one left the training aspect of the business. I am now with her then business partner.
Ok - that being said, I believe in loyalty to oneâs trainer(s) AND to oneâs clients and if the relationship is not working, then COMMUNICATE. Heck - donât just communicate when things arenât going perfectly!
Iâm not sure if Iâve made any sense here. . .
Loyalty is a TWO-WAY street!
Hmmmm. . . Another thought. . .Either other trainers donât want me, or they must perceive the loyalty in my relationship with my trainers, because Iâve never had a trainer try to woe me away seriously. . .
[This message has been edited by Duffy (edited 11-02-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Duffy (edited 11-02-2000).]
Sometimes one side doesnât see the other sides issues and simply feels wronged or persecuted. Iâm not saying that is in any of these cases, but riding and showing horses is very dynamic. Riders put a lot of time, effort, dedication, and money into showing and trainers need to respect that and be willing to understand when things are not working out or the rider needs a different program, they themsselves cannot offer.
Subsequently a rider has to realize that a trainer may have professional aspirations that may make the unavailable and unnable to keep them as a client if they do not compete at a certain level or a certain amount. I am in no way dissolving belief in loyality or good business, but our sport especially when it comes to the showing aspect is very competitive and ever changing, riders and trainers have to evolve to stay competitive and even to survive. Unfortunately this will always happen. Many will end up hurt or angry, but were they truly assesing the situation? Were they thinking of the other personâs goals and aspirations? Did they ignore the warning signs, maybe they could have done something to prevent loosing a client or alienating a trainer?
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