lunging issues- my horse is kicking at me!

[katiemae]

Hey guys,
I have been doing a lot of ground work with my horse, Amber to make her more supple and responsive and she has been doing really well. I also have been lunging her for years and she’s excellent with it, she listens and knows voice commandd (cluck to trot snd kiss to canter). I started to add some advanced workn into lunging, change in direction of the trot. I would step in line with her shoulder and then step back opening my lunge line towards her hip and using my dressage whip to send her the other way, at first she would turn really quick and go fast in the other direction, but then transitions got smoother.

but now her lunging has progressively deteriorate. Sometimes when I ask her to go forward with just noise from the whip, she turns her butt and bucks at me. It started on the right that she would be trotting and then just stop like I stepped toward her shoulder, so I would step behind her and get after her to go forwards. Now when lunging I feel like I have to be even more behind her and really drive her forward or she stops. Yesterday was really bad, she was stopping to the left as well, was kicking out and she would just stop and bolt in the other direction with the whites of her eyes showing, I even noticed when I would cluck to her without doing anything with the whip, she would pin her ears and become tense. I feel like I ruined her

I feel terrible and I hate that she is so stressed. I tried really hard to try to communicate better with her last night, if she stopped or turned around, I calmly walked up to her, walked her forward and started again but it didn’t get me anywhere. It’s hard not to get frustrated when she keeps turning in and bucking at me. I feel like she’s either in pain somewhere and doesn’t want to go forward or the whole lunging process I’ve just made completely stressful. how do I fix this? Has anyone had a horse do this?

Thanks,
Lindsay

[GotGait]

My first thought was pain issue.
But a question… how much do you lunge? I’ve seen some pretty sour horses who have been ground worked to death.
For example: *cough “savvy” *cough

[LoveJubal]

I’m thinking a pain issue as well… Has she ever had a problem with ulcers? What kind of horse is Amber? How old is she? That will make a horse sulky and surly for sure.

How is she when you ride her?

[meupatdoes]

If a horse turned its butt to me and threatened to kick I can guarantee the next three seconds would not happen calmly.

The tail end of that longe whip would whistle through the air and land so sharp as to make a stripe. I’ll give you a REASON to pop your eyes til the whites show, horse.

We can deal with any remaining issues after that one has been decidedly resolved.

[katiemae]

I lunge her more then I ride currently (once a week to every other week), simply because she tied up almost 2 years ago and I hate tacking up to trot for 10 minurtes :(, because, I don’t work her super consistent so I have a hard time getting her in shape. I lunged her almost everyday for a year before I ever broke her to ride, so she has been lunged alot, but never had an issue. I used to free lunge her, but she can be a nut and that’s how she tied up the one time, free lunging for 10 minutes I’m afraid I’ve made her sour, she is amazing horse and I trust her with my life, but she scares my lunging sometimes now, she doesnt think or look out for me!

[katiemae]

No never has…what would the symptoms be? She is a Morgan, 12 years old (I’ve had her since she was 3).

[Cabaret_SK]

Would it help to lunge her in a round pen so you don’t have to deal with the line on top of all of her behaviour? And what about using an actual lunge whip vs. a dressage whip - I know mine have a lot more respect for the longer whip while lunging and I find it much easier to use - the dressage whip is just too short.

[enjoytheride]

She ties up after 10 minutes of work? Like every time? Has she seen a vet?

Do you have a trainer and is this your first horse?

[eclipse]

I’m a bit confused by some of your terminology…“I would step in line with her shoulder and then step back opening my lunge line towards her hip and using my dressage whip to send her the other way, at first she would turn really quick and go fast in the other direction, but then transitions got smoother.” why would stepping in line with her shoulder and opening toward her hip send her the other way?

In my world when I step in line with my geldings shouder that is the ideal location to lunge from and if I step in front of his shoulder it means halt. And he stays halted until I send him forward with NO butt swinging toward me at all…THAT would mean a “come to Jesus” meeting in a hurry!!

To send him in the other direction I unclip the lunge line from his bridle (I always lunge in a bridle…more control) and clip it to the bit on the other side running it up and over his poll. I want to be able to control him properly without him running around out of control (my pet peeve is watching people with an out of control horse lunging in a halter!)

Has your horse learned that she can just swing around and go the other way whenever your whip goes back to her hip? If so, then you really need a lunge lesson as the whip should always be toward her hip…think of a triangle with you at the point and that point should be level with the shoulder of your horse!

Transitions shouldn’t be turning directions they should be up and down gates in the same direction. Constantly allowing her to change direction is in my opinion, teaching her to swing her butt at you. Good luck and if you’re nervous about letting her have that “come to Jesus meeting” get your trainer involved.

[alto]

[QUOTE=katiemae;7201706]
I lunge her more then I ride currently (once a week to every other week) that’s how she tied up the one time, free lunging for 10 minutes [/QUOTE]

@katiemae;7201708

She is a Morgan

Has she been checked for EPSM (PSSM)?

Testing & information

[Countrywood]

It sounds so extreme could be a pain issue. I would get a vet out ASAP. Could be stifle, hocks, anything like that.

As a horse ages, lunging gets harder and harder on the joints. It is annoying to tack up but so much better for horse not to be going in those small circles.

A lunge whip is better than a dressage whip…and if she is kicking out wear a helmet when lunging

But again, the change is so dramatic I would suspect a pain issue.

[bluecharm7]

I have used some natural horsemanship to teach my horse to switch directions while lunging. But the horse’s head faces me and turns toward me. He does not turn away from me, and I never have his butt face me. If you horse is turning away from you to change direction, before the problems started, then you taught her incorrectly and now she and you are not communicating properly. I would start lunging again from the basics, just at a walk and have someone else walk with her on the line a few times. Then move forward once she understands that.

I also agree that there could be a pain issue. I would contact your vet first and if pain is rulled out then it is a training issue.

[Superminion]

You lunged her everyday for a year? That’s a lot… I’m with all the other posters that say rule out a pain related issue first, and then stop lunging her as it’s pretty clear that she’s sour about the whole thing.

Tacking up doesn’t take more than a few minutes.

[Finding_Serenity]

Definitely rule out pain first.

If it is that she is “lunge sour” (even if not this might be a great alternative to help manage the pain) I would see if you can find someone to teach you to ground driving. It can get them off the constant circling and you can do almost everything that you would do under saddle once you can drive properly and safely.

[Sing_Mia_Song]

More questions:

Does she get turnout or is she in a stall 24/7? If she is turned out, what are the conditions (how big an area, what kind of footing, alone or with other horses and how many)?

How long is your longe line?

Why do you use a dressage whip as opposed to a longe whip?

What is the footing like in the longing area?

[Lucassb]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7201704]
If a horse turned its butt to me and threatened to kick I can guarantee the next three seconds would not happen calmly.

The tail end of that longe whip would whistle through the air and land so sharp as to make a stripe. I’ll give you a REASON to pop your eyes til the whites show, horse.

We can deal with any remaining issues after that one has been decidedly resolved.[/QUOTE]

AMEN

[enjoytheride]

Normally I would agree but it sounds like we’re dealing with a beginner rider and a sour horse. I’ve never heard of lunging a horse daily for a year straight until you get on, or of a horse tying up after 10 minutes of work, or a horse that isn’t fit enough to be ridden for 10 minutes once a week.

[katiemae]

It would probaly help to use a round pen, but I do not have access to one I have used a lunge whip before, but I have lost is somehow and so now I just use the dressage whip and its worked fine, I have never needed to chase her or get after her, it was just there as a reminder. I think a lunge whip would be good for more length, to keep her away, but I feel using the whip more is only going to increase her stress.

She only tied up once, no issues since then…but I just warm her up really well, usually ground work, walking and suppling exercises and then work her a little, she is fat and out of shape, so I just always wear on the side of caution to try and not overwork her. She saw a vet and they ran a CK and then rechecked 2 weeks later - months after this she had loose stifles, due to not being able to work her like before, so we worked on strengthing exercises. No issues since. The Vet said that we could test for EPSM, but she hasnt tied up again, so I didnt pursue. She has never tied up before the age of 10, even when I wouldnt ride her for months and then go work her like normal, it was just this one time, so I’m just extra careful now. I do not have a trainer and this is not my first horse, I grew up with horses, worked at several barns and took lessons for years. I also have a BS in Equine Studies…

If I step infront of her shoulder yes it means stop of turn. She is also voice commanded for this, if I saw whoa, she stops from any gait, I dont even have to move. I do crate a triangle with me lunge line and whip. I mean opening the lunge line to the direction I want her to go, so that there is space for her to move into. I agree, that teaching her to change direction at a trot was a bad idea, but its done now, I just dont know how to fix it.

I used to go up and change direction, but I started doing it with her on the move. When she turns, she always turns in, NEVER away from me, that isnt even possible while she is on a lunge line. I think all this made her panicy. I have lunged her in a bridle, but I also do in a halter, I have never not had control. I feel I need more control but I do not want to make things worse, with more puishment (pulling on her mouth). The whip is always at her hip unless she needs encouragement to change direction, she may think she can change direction whenever she gets confused, sounds reasonable. I incorperate transitions in lunging in well.

I has someone years ago working with her on ground driving, I would love to fins someone to help me work with her on it again.

She is on pasture board and turned out alone. It’s a good size area (maybe 3 - 4 times that of the ring), she has some grass and 2 shelters and she is near a pond. The footing in the ring is blue stone, but it hasnt been replaced or harrowed in years.

Thanks guys! I agree, I need to get my butt on her and suck it up. No more lunging for now - and I will try to get the Vet out. I want a Chiropractor to come out and look at her but funds are limited.

• Lindsay

[eclipse]

again…why even have her turn on the lunge line (by stepping in front of her)? If you are stepping in front to turn her AND/OR stop her she’s getting confused. Have her go in one direction until you tell her to go the other direction by putting the lunge line on the other side of the bit!

[katiemae]

I am not a beginner rider by any means…although I do agree that my horse is sour. I did alot of free lunging, it wasnt all circles and I did alot of groundwork, I felt that was helpful to starting her undersaddle and I still believe this.
She did tie up after a short free lunge, a Vet came to examine and said she wasn’t a classic case of tying up, but none the less her CK was extremely high the day after.

I already said that I agree it was not a good idea to change direction on the lunge line (or that I didnt teach it correctly), but now I dont ask her and she is still having problems. I was looking for advice to help me get her back to what she was not telling me that I shouldnt have done it.

I love my horse and I want what is best for her, and I dont want her stressed!