Lunging styles vent

[alibi_18]

Seriously wondering - I get that there are different schools of thought, training styles and disciplines. Whatever.

But that trend of having a horse turn around a standing still person who’s lunging - the lunge line going over their head/horse going behind for half of the circle - has me baffled.

I understand it’s a « trust game »… but seriously, isn’t it just supposed be a one time for fun « check » and not a way of doing?

It truly is just an injury waiting to happen, and it doesn’t bring anything to the horse’s training, let alone it’s muscling.

I’m ready, convince me otherwise.

Ps: Where does this idiotic trend come from?
Pss : I’m clearly venting because one lady at the barn insist on doing so and as a result, her horse do get loose quite often because he couldn’t care less about whatever training she’s doing. Her trainer came today and gave a lunging clinic to 2 other boarders… Ugh.

[sweetsalute]

I’ve never seen someone actually do that but…no thank you! Sounds like a recipe for getting tangled up in the lunge line, not to mention you can’t see what the horse is doing…I imagine I could get away with it with the old girl who lunges herself. The youngster? No way, she’d take advantage of that immediately.

[endlessclimb]

The only time I’ve ever done that is when I’m talking to someone outside the circle, and yeah, it’s a one time thing.

If her horses are getting loose all the time, please tell me you’re not in the arena while she’s lunging?

Can we also vent about people who goose their horses to buck and carry on while on the lunge line, saddle and all? It’s asking to have the horse tear free of the handler, plus it teaches the horse that maybe it’s ok to buck and act like a moron when the saddle is on. For me, nope. As soon as the line is on (leading or lunging), play time is over. They’re free to screw around while turned out, I expect good behavior on the line.

[Sleipnir]

This…excersise, if we can call it that, comes straight from the Parelli, and is supposed to teach the horse “respect” - if he tried to slow down or stop behind the handlers’ back, he’d then be spontaneously chased in much faster gaits on a small circle and with frequent disengagements of the hind legs. Then circling would be offered again, until the horse knows how to “behave”.

The desired result would then be a horse who’d continue circling you, no questions asked, at the gait that was asked for, until you decide to cue for a stop. Unless the horse gets that command, he’d just go in a circle blindly, even if you drop the lunge line or just simply drop dead in the middle of the circle.

Unhealthy for both the horses’ body and mind when done like this, if you ask me.

[alibi_18]

@Sleipnir

Unless the horse gets that command, he’d just go in a circle blindly, even if you drop the lunge line or just simply drop dead in the middle of the circle.

Nice.
« RIP handler, may your horse circles for eternity. »

[alibi_18]

@Sleipnir

frequent disengagements of the hind legs.

Oh, don’t get me started on that.

Why would someone not want their horse to engage its damn hind legs? WHY???

[alibi_18]

@endlessclimb

plus it teaches the horse that maybe it’s ok to buck and act like a moron when the saddle is on

Someone I know’s horse became scared of going in the indoor… because everytime they went, that poor horse was chased until a was showing signs of submission (aka exhaustion)…

[Sleipnir]

Because using techniques that mess with the horses’ natural balance, impulsion and fluidity, apparently, makes the horse respect you more. “Oh, this guy managed to stop me by managing to force me swing my hind legs outwards while I was trying to canter, and I had to stop sharply with all my weight on my forehand! Huh, he must be the lead mare then, no choice but to respect him now!”

[alibi_18]

@endlessclimb

please tell me you’re not in the arena while she’s lunging?

I know better than to ride/lunge when she’s there. I lunged with her once, long time ago, prior to this new craziness, and avoided it ever since.

I will avoid her, and now her new friends, even more. The barn is fortunately spacious enough for me to mind my business and ride elsewhere while these shenanigans are on.

[TheDBYC]

Just when I thought we had plumbed the depths of Parelli stupidity, we discover a new, subterranean parking garage level of cray cray.

[Tarlo_Farm]

I’ve seen this, and yes, from the famous Parellis. Not only all the above comments, but the horse winds up drilling a track into the surface, rather than moving a little bit to avoid that happening.

[Sleipnir]

A classic move in case the horse misbehaved, using this method, would also be to sharply disengage the hind legs, make the horse back up aggressively (head high and back hollow, of course, as nobody likes “wiggling” of the rope and being hit in the jaw by those heavy bull snaps), and then making him run in the other direction pronto.

What makes this even more harmful is the fact that, unless the horse is already up the levels and graduated to be lunged in a longer rope, the most common Parelli rope for lunging is only 12ft/3.5m long, so the circles are TINY.

[TheDBYC]

This is something I don’t understand about “natural horsemenship”. And maybe modern Western riding because all these NH trainers are Western riders. (Although, I hesitate to paint with such a broad brush.) I don’t want a horse that blindly obeys like a dog for fear of getting in trouble. I want him to listen, to trust me, yes, but I don’t want blind obedience. Horses are intelligent. They can see stuff coming down the pike that we sometimes can’t. I want a horse that will judiciously exercise veto power for the two of us if he thinks we’re going to die trying to do what we’re doing.

This past weekend, my daughter rode the freaky athletic jumper pony in what was daughter’s first ever (schooling) jumper show. This pony can take off from anywhere, and takes “handy” to a whole nother level. She stopped at the 3rd fence in their first trip. That was literally the first time I’ve seen that pony stop or even be less than 100% enthusiastic about a jump. They regrouped, cleared the 3rd fence & continued on. I was videoing their round & didn’t see what happened on the approach in real time. Yet I was 100% certain that the pony had made the correct executive decision for the two of them. And sure enough, my daughter explained later that the stop had absolutely been due to pilot error.

I had an OTTB that came to live with me for a cushy step-down after a long career as a steeplechaser & high performance hunter. He’d belonged to one of my daughter’s previous trainers & her husband. He apparently refused twice in his life. Both times at the same fence on the same X-country course. The husband was upset & asked his trainer wife what they were going to do about it. She said she told him: “What do you mean ‘what are we going to do about it’?? We’re not coming back to this venue again is what we’re going to do about it! He never refuses. There’s obviously something wrong with the fence.”

This is how I want my horses to be. I want horses that are not afraid of asking me what I’ve been smoking ehen it’s called for. Not a 1200 lbs GSD that remains in a down staywhile the building is burning down around it because I didn’t give it a release command.

[WildGooseChase]

I see this most often at shows. Handlers are more concerned about looking on their phones than training their horses.

[2DogsFarm]

I know, I am the Word Police

But, please people, you LONGE a horse.
Not LUNGE

From the Oxford Dictionary:

longe

noun

1. a long rein on which a horse is held and made to move in a circle around its trainer.

“a longe line”

verb

exercise (a horse or rider) on a longe

[Equkelly]

@TheDBYC

This is something I don’t understand about “natural horsemenship”. And maybe modern Western riding because all these NH trainers are Western riders. (Although, I hesitate to paint with such a broad brush.) I don’t want a horse that blindly obeys like a dog for fear of getting in trouble. I want him to listen, to trust me, yes, but I don’t want blind obedience. Horses are intelligent. They can see stuff coming down the pike that we sometimes can’t. I want a horse that will judiciously exercise veto power for the two of us if he thinks we’re going to die trying to do what we’re doing.

Yes but if you’ve met the natural horsemanship crowd you’d understand. It’s mostly permanent beginners and just untalented riders. When that’s the case, you kind of need to depend on that blind obedience. Like the example you provided with jumping… If the rider can’t find a distance, is constantly getting left behind, catching the horse in the mouth, and riding into the jump crooked, the horse should be refusing jumps. But with natural horsemanship, you can make it so your horse is afraid to say no and that’ll make up for your flaws and therefore protect your ego.

Also on lunging, I don’t don’t get why anyone would discipline for bucking on the line. The whole reason my horse is usually on a lunge line is to burn a bit of energy and stretch out. If she needs to get a buck out of her system, that’s fine. Better than her doing it while I’m on her.

[TheDBYC]

Oh, I agree! It’s just something that’s always had me scratching my head. I’ve done a little Western riding - mostly barrels & pushing cattle. In both I can imagine situations where the horse’s split second decision-making could save our a$$es. I think your assessment is correct. Most of the Parelli people in particular that I’ve met don’t seem to actually ride much.

[Ghazzu]

There’s also the very common habit of allowing a considerable length of the longe/rope to trail on the ground. It makes me want to scream.

[rockonxox]

Both are correct.

"longe
transitive verb
\ ˈlənj , ˈlōⁿzh, ˈläⁿzh, ˈlänj \

variants: or lunge
longed or lunged; longed or lunged; longeing or lunging; longes or lunges"

Just like Color or Colour they are both correct, although depending on where you geographically are one is going to be more common.

I’ve never seen anyone lunge in the fashion described here. Sounds like a recipe for disaster (and pointless).

[alibi_18]

Well, you better write to the USEF, USDF, the FEI, EquineCanada and the British Horse Society because they all use « lunge / lungeing ».

Technically, both terms are valid. « Longe » is mainly used in US while « Lunge » is more British.

I know how frustrating it can be, I cringe when people use « boucher bit » instead of « baucher » as in François Baucher.