I think I’m in the middle. Don’t we all know horses who misbehave with some people whilst being angels with others, or even a particular human whom they dislike? Horses have their opinions too. They enjoy some jobs but not others. They like some fellow horses but not others. Kicking out on the lunge after time off, to me, isn’t pain. Kicking out on the lunge every time is likely to be pain.
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For those who haven’t seen it, here’s El Mustacheo setting an example how it’s done.
Thanks for posting-this is more upsetting than I thought it would be.
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Lol at he was vetted? That’s pretty rude of you to insinuate that I haven’t moved the sun and the noon and the stars for this horse.
And of course I didn’t skip straight to “bad horse” - also pretty bold assumption that you’ve made. 10 years of trying to figure this guy out, including countless dollars sank into veterinary exploration are what brought us to the conclusion that when this particular horse has had time off for whatever reason, when put back on the longe, has an opinion about whether he wants to go back to work.
Horses very much are capable of deciding how they will react to different people. They can respect one and walk all over another. They can have opinions about what they want to do, and not do.
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I think that over analyzing every move a horse makes is just as damaging as telling the one-off kick-at-you-er to knock it off and move forward.
Not every horse is an angel. Many will test you on a semi regular basis. My Old Man horse knows when there’s a softie on him within 10 minutes, because they fail repeated tests he’s giving them. Then he knows he can get away with bloody murder (which to him is conveniently “forgetting” the forward button). Switch riders to me, I don’t fail the first test or two, and he knows the gig is up.
They’re smarter than you’re giving them credit for. They aren’t machines where THIS button produces THAT response, every time.
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What was that!? “Teaching your horse to circle” whilst showing off to an admiring young woman who giggles and makes “oooh wow!” noises…
Not much leaves me speechless.
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Bingo.
That’s why some are perfect beginner’s horses and some, no matter how broke, will never be.
I had a Morgan gelding who was perfect for beginner riders, but put an intermediate rider on him who hadn’t yet figured out inside leg to outside rein and he’d go park himself in a corner until they quit pulling his head around to turn. Regardless of the age or size of rider at some point he would figure they had learned enough to know better and there he’d stand, stuck in the corner, oblivious to their pulling and kicking. It was a great reinforcement, as soon as they asked properly, our of the corner he would come. I don’t know what he was actually figuring out - their balance maybe? But he was tremendously consistent in his behavior. Taught a lot of riders of all ages.
Horses are incredibly smart. I don’t think they are mean or bad, those are judgey human words. But they can most definitely express opinions and desires.
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And, a young horse doesn’t know what’s expected of them. I teach them, through consistency, that bucking and screwing around on the lunge is not ok. I’m not stifling her emooooootions, I’m showing her that it’s work time.
I have an experienced enough eye and a great team of vets (and a bank account just for the horses that can sustain whatever they need, period) that I’m not stifling her telling me that she’s in pain. Nor am I shooting a shotgun at a diagnosis, due to lack of veterinary testing or bad farrier work or whatever.
Really, she doesn’t do it unless the horses in the adjacent pasture are screwing around, or if she’s fresh from a weather change or a day off. So… not a pain response. 
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Poor confused horse. There is definitely a quieter way to teach this “trick” than that. But seriously, what is the point of it to begin with? Teach your horse to ignore your body language?
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With how much that horse is cross-cantering, it wouldn’t surprise me if there was an issue physically.
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My best guess - teach your horse learned helplesness, carefully veiled under such nice, big words as “respect” and “trust”. What you get is a perpetually confused and subdued beast, who is then labeled as well trained and calm.
As far as I understand, the horse in the clip presented some sort of misbehaviour when lunged - seems like it was changing directions/stopping on its own. However, we don’t know how the owner could have caused it herself, and I can think of dozens of calmer, more sensible ways to teach a horse to lunge properly.
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Good catch! I was cringing so much over Parellis’ body language that I didn’t even notice that at first. Totally agree, cross cantering and not wanting to go in one direction, especially, in such a small circle - definitely screams physical issues to me.
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Yep, even if you wanted to train to do this, it could have been accomplished in such a happier and calmer way.
I know one of mine will turn in if I get too far forward. I figure he’s just training me to be more aware of my own body!
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Yikes.
Now, it’s true, we don’t know how the horse was previously.
I worked with a gal who liked to “chase” her horse on the longe. If she wanted an upward transition, she skipped (not kidding). Horse, nonplussed, ignored her and was thusly in the habit of ignoring whomever was on the end of the longe line, because largely he had learned that people on the end of the longe lines were idiots who could be ignored. You could almost see him roll his eyes and tune out.
But the answer wasn’t to go crazy initially. I gave him a chance, then escalated until he actually moved. Then went back to a nice ask, and repeated until he went from a nice ask.
If you’re doing more work than the horse, you’re definitely in the wrong, but you also have to make some sense to the horse. This was a lot of super intense energy all at once, and it even gave me hives.
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Very true! The dressage horse I leased had a rider test procedure. It made me feel like a bad rider until I happened upon a YouTube video of him as a new import doing a 3rd level test with his trainer at the time – a rider who most people have heard of. And darned if he didn’t pull his same little test on that person, too! 
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They’re not like people they don’t “dislike” some people got no reason. And kicking out/ bucking I don’t mind, but if they’re kicking out at the person on the ground, IMO somethings wrong.
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They don’t have a prefrontal cortex. They literally do not have the ability to process complex human emotions like “respect” or “disrespect”. It’s an anthropomorphism. If he’s kicking out at a person, he really doesn’t like something they’re doing. Maybe they pushed too hard to fast or maybe the horse is just completely sour or maybe they’re a physical issue. But this idea of “he’s being disrespectful” is just an anthropomorphism and not true.
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What does it matter? That horse is afraid.
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Omg. That Mustachio longeing video is horrendous. What on earth is he trying to achieve?
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