Slight deviation from the original topic but I have a serious question which I hope won’t ruffle any feathers but this is as good a place as any to ask it. Are Lusitanos actually any good, in general, for dressage? Are they considered on a par with Warmbloods by the ‘knowledgeable’? I have seen a few performing and have to say I’ve not been impressed, mostly because I don’t like the conformation of the ones I’ve seen: thick short necks, common etc.
I think it would be safe to say that these horses will not be selling for prices that mere mortals could afford; let alone score an invitation!
"Interested buyers will be able to preview the horses available, test-ride them, and view their veterinarian records, including the most recent x-rays and tests. At the end of the horse try-outs, guests will enjoy a welcoming cocktail reception leading up to the gala dinner and auction. The 2009 auction will highlight collections of Lusitanos from two of the most important breeding farms in Brazil: “The 2009 Lusitano Collection™ International Exhibition, marks the fourth anniversary of the Exhibition and the second year it will take place in the United States. The event will take place on February 19th and 20th at the Jim Brandon Equestrian Center in West Palm Beach, Florida. Interagro Farms and Coudelaria Rocas do Vouga and has elected to invite only 400 attendees.”
Tango, you could be seeing a couple of things. One is that there ARE Lusitanos around that have thick short necks.
There is a type I see a lot of - very cobby (not ‘like a Welsh Cob’, but ‘cobby’, like a persian cat - thick, short, heavier build) and thick and coarse in the neck, and gaits not very suitable to sport - short, quick, ‘trappy’ strides, a lateral canter, and a lot of tension carried in the back, which doesn’t come up and round like a more athletic horse, regardless of training applied. There are a LOT of these for sale, both imports and bred in the USA. Some are very pretty, but still basically short and cobby, and not ‘accordion-like’ as needed for sport. This is more a ranch type horse, often quite quick and needing very little pampering, hard flinty feet, versatile, active, but not necessarily going to jump or be a dressage horse in anything other than lower level fun shows. This is not a ‘baroque’ horse, this is more of a utilitarian ranch horse. They almost remind one of Criollos. They may have quite coarse, large heads with short, heavy, low set necks.
Then there is a sport type - longer legs, less cobby, more able to work like that accordion sport horse, a longer, rounder stride, more supple and smooth in motion, yet still with that lovely balance and cattiness, like a sports car.
There ARE baroque types that don’t look like either, and are quite compact and may SEEM to have a thick neck and a ‘coarse’ head (roman nose, even extreme roman nose which can put a lot of Americans off). These are not necessarily that limited. They may have a tendency to get quick and short, but with good basics, can develop and have a lot more range, suppleness and athleticism than the first type.
But look out, Tango, because I see a LOT of people MAKING them short in the neck, by rushing into teaching them upper level work or just ‘going along’ with the tendency to get too upright and shortened. Because they are often compact and upright (or move quite compact and upright) some people assume they don’t need to have a good basis in lower level work, that they are ‘born collected’, and they don’t build back muscle, etc, tho according to several long time agents/trainers I talked to, they actually need MORE work on stretching and building back muscle than some other types.
Thanks! I still think they lack the extravagant movement of a good WB, and they’re just too thickset in the body and neck for my taste. However, I’m not an expert, so I was wondering what the dressage afficionados feel about Lusitanos being able to compete equally with a {modern} Warmblood?
I really don’t think you’re getting to see enough of them. They aren’t all like that.
I’m a lucky Lusitano owner. I had been looking for almost a year, on what I thought was a pretty big budget, but soon learned was not big enough for what I wanted. Several USA breeders/importers were VERY nice in speaking with and educating me during my search. Then I got lucky. I found a seller who had bought a nice horse through a reputable importer, but after a year felt the horse was too much for her abilities. He was perfect for me, he is very happy and moving up the levels quickly because he’s so talented. In exchange for giving him a great home with classical training, owner sold him to me for the price they originally paid. I haven’t looked back and being a WB owner before, would never go back. Lusos have something “special” 
Thanks! I still think they lack the extravagant movement of a good WB, and they’re just too thickset in the body and neck for my taste. However, I’m not an expert, so I was wondering what the dressage afficionados feel about Lusitanos being able to compete equally with a {modern} Warmblood?
How 'bout the Olympics? Is that competitive enough? 
The fabulous Relampago, (Australia) is the son of Luar, the first Luso to go to the Pan Ams… There were/have been a couple of others who have made it all the way to the top for both Portugal and South American Countries (Brazil, for sure, but I think also Argentina?)
Luar simply FLOATS. He has tons of suspension. What was funny was I fell in love with Relempago when I saw his first ride on the 'net, and only found out he is Luar’s son after I researched his bloodlines.
There are certainly different types, different strains of Iberian–the same way as there are different strains for Arabians. Obviously some are more bred toward working with cattle (bulls–but also Ranch work) and some are bred more toward sport. It is completely untrue that Iberians have no extensions… SOME Iberians don’t, the same way SOME (insert any breed here) don’t.
I’ve known a few of the colts who came up after the sale, but I’ve NO IDEA what the arrangements were. I know that if I wanted to buy a ‘nicely started’ youngster from my teacher (say, working in third, but ‘green’ show-wise) prices would start around what I paid for my house… :uhoh: (yes, I’m trailer trash. :lol: )
Any photos Lusoluv? 
Sorry MistyBlue. While I do have some photos, none are kept in an online album with a URL and I don’t know how to post photos kept on my desktop. I’m not the most computer literate :no:
[QUOTE=pintopiaffe;3759720]
How 'bout the Olympics? Is that competitive enough?
The fabulous Relampago, (Australia) is the son of Luar, the first Luso to go to the Pan Ams… There were/have been a couple of others who have made it all the way to the top for both Portugal and South American Countries (Brazil, for sure, but I think also Argentina?)
There are certainly different types, different strains of Iberian–the same way as there are different strains for Arabians. Obviously some are more bred toward working with cattle (bulls–but also Ranch work) and some are bred more toward sport. It is completely untrue that Iberians have no extensions… SOME Iberians don’t, the same way SOME (insert any breed here) don’t. [/QUOTE]
But they’re very few and far between, right? Which pedigrees are considered the most desirable? Perhaps I can educate myself by looking at the ones which are known to be good.
Tango14,
If your goal is to go be competitive, get a good WB (obviously the caveat is that not every wb is good at dressage–I’ve seen a lot that weren’t suitable). Then you won’t ever have to worry about it.
Here’s my theory why you don’t see more lusitanos in dressage. Of course I’m sure there’s more than just one reason. I think a lot of people still believe as you, that there aren’t any that have the ability to compete against WBs which I think kind of depends on the level–on an international level maybe not but I know there are not a few competing at GP either locally or nationally and seem to do well.
But when it comes to making that choice of what to buy it comes down to how much you can get for your dollar. You can buy a nice moving, three gaits under saddle 4-5 year old WB for X amount of money.
For nearly the same price you can buy yourself a 3 year old lusitano who isn’t the best mover, who doesn’t have a good start at training, who’s smaller than you’d like.
If you wanted a lusitano that was the same quality as the WB you’d have to pay a whole lot more. And most people wouldn’t want to do that. Heck, I wouldn’t want to do that!
It makes more sense to get the WB. Those who tend to buy the lusitanos really want one specifically. They’re not out looking for a dressage horse. They’re out looking for a lusitano for whatever reason, they want to braid a lot of hair, they had a fantasy as a child, they like the temperament (although some can be very hot/not amateur friendly) etc.
Yes, Shiaway, that’s what I thought:)
two pages- lots of slick- no information-…darn!
There’s a ton of information on this thread, actually. Check out Shiaway’s and Misty’s posts.
They’re few and far between because it’s a small breed. As recently as the early 90’s they were almost endangered.
Just like ANY horse, there are clunkers and those not suited to dressage and those more suited to dressage.
I know a little more about Andi bloodlines than Luso, because one of my mentors is a breeder. But I’m not “up” on lines yet. I’ve only started seriously researching for breeding in the last couple of years–though I’ve been riding them for a decade. I do look to dressage competition results, as I purpose breed for dressage. One stallion on my short list is a Leviton grandson. For Lusos, certainly Luar’s lines are impressive, and I would use him as a sire (or buy one of his kids) in a heartbeat. Paragrapho do Top is another whom I know, have ridden, and know the kids–and love all of the above. So, knowing that, I’d research his pedigree and go from there. There is a gelding I know who is, IMO, the IDEAL Luso for me and my program. Unfortunately, he’s a gelding. I am trying to research his bloodlines, which is not so easy since he was imported from Brazil and is not an Interagro. Many of the breeders aren’t even remotely close to being online or entering pedigrees etc. I truly believe if you are shopping and wish to import, you need to hook up with a breeder/buyer whose horses you respect and work with them. Too much of the Luso world is VERY old style, and you won’t get in the door without an introduction.
I have a couple stallions on the list–enough to keep me busy for the next few years, but both Luso & Andi. I do hope to pick up, or have custom bred a filly at some point.
But I am aiming for Aztecas, not purebreds. For many reasons, not the least of which is I’m in an entirely different league than the players with the purebreds. :eeK: :uhoh: (like remove a couple commas from the prices, not to mention zeros! :lol: )
Thanks for the…er…information. Still no answer to my ? Lots of info on what the market looks like but no real auction numbers. I also do not think they will provide them for you. Just curious ,as I think one would be a nice addition to my collection down the road. And no I would not expect that it could compete in terms of movement with my WBs.Perhaps more user friendly as I get older. My WB is a whole body workout because of his athleticism and gaits. Thinking down the road about a horse with collection ability and a good work ethic as well as tractable temperment. Perhaps a dressage pony is the better route. The fantasy mystique surrounding them is annoying and does nothing to promote this breed to the wider market. And no thanks to the Arab crosses. There are some really wonderful ones out there and my friend owns one trained to GP. Just not my personal preferance. They older I get I like to have my cake and eat it too !!! So what I want matters to me and the Lusitanos are an intriguing prospect. But I am not traveling all over the world and jumping thru ridiculous hoops to find one.
Why wouldn’t they supply auction prices? Unless of course they wish you to believe they’re higher than they actually are… This makes me believe that the hype is just that - hype. In fact, this entire auction sounds like hype to me. A way to sell some horses in a tough economic climate.
A lot of the lusitanos I’ve ridden are not as much of a physical work out because they have a “go” button that once pushed, doesn’t need to ever be pushed again. In fact mine gets a little sticky some time and I have the opposite problem LOL Of course I think that any dressage horse, you shouldn’t have to nag to keep going but I notice a lot of people have to when they ride. I used to have to with my old STB. I would try really hard to get him to respond more quickly to my leg and I could manage to do it if that’s all I paid attention to. Then if my attention went anywhere else I would loose it again.
So for someone like me–lower level rider/amateur, my lusitano is a whole lot easier to ride since I don’t have to ever worry about it.
But I have ridden ones that were the opposite. So just like every breed, there is variation. Although I think in Lusitanos and that type of horse there is probably less variation.
Miss Dior,
I have no idea what the auction prices are going to be except I imagin very high, but I have been to an auction that is held annually by a lusitano farm. I don’t know if the prices will be similar or not. But I recall that the four year olds who had walk trot canter type work on them-could probably do training level, went for $30-40K and the ones with more training, maybe 9-10 years old with up to GP (but not ridden in the show ring and the ones I saw were more circuis-type) went for around $75K.
A few of the young ones were very sporty, tall and athletic. You could probably do pretty well in competition if you trained them right. The GP horses seemed to be more trick-ponies. I don’t know if that was just the horses they had that year or not. Maybe that farm couldn’t afford to buy the more correctly trained GP ones or maybe you can’t find too many of them in Brazil LOL I’m not particularly fond of the training style of brazil in general.
The real answer is, they’re expensive. They’re rare as someone mentioned, they have that “fantasy appeal”, so the prices aren’t always proportionate to their ability in dressage.
If you’re thinking of getting one, I’d find someone who could set you up with a breeder in Brazil and I’d buy direct so you don’t have to pay a middle man. Then I’d make sure it was a repitable breeder like Interagro which has started selling lusitanos out of brazil instead of only portugal. Haras Modelo is where my horse is from and I have noticed that they are producing a lot of sportier lusitanos.
