Maclay finals

[Rel6]

I read this, and didn’t think it came off the way the author intended.

Augusta is a freakishly talented and amazing rider, with parents in the industry, who has been well-mounted from day one (her mother and trainer’s words, not mine).

The idea that she could be considered an underdog based her being a short rider of Asian-American heritage is frankly embarrassing for the sport.

(Let me be clear - I’m not doubting anything she says or that she faced prejudice, just commenting on how it reflects on the equitation division that someone who rides as amazingly as her was being told she couldn’t do the equitation is incredibly telling.)

[FrittSkritt]

@Rel6

The idea that she could be considered an underdog based her being a short rider of Asian-American heritage is frankly embarrassing for the sport.

Given the rumors that big barns are still putting their eq riders on restrictive diets and encouraging eating disorders, it doesn’t exactly surprise me that the H/J world considers her to be one.

[Rel6]

Not necessarily surprisingly, but still embarrassing.

[Renn_aissance]

I am going to listen to the podcast myself tomorrow so that I can hear the judges’ own inflection on their words. Thank you, @Rel6, for your summary.

Here is a USDF document describing the purpose, aids, and performance of the turn on the haunches. https://www.usdf.org/EduDocs/Training/Turnonthehaunches.pdf

I don’t see anything contradictory in Robin’s statement, as summarized by Rel6, and the USDF description. The horse’s limbs remain in motion throughout to maintain a 4-beat walk rhythm. The forelegs cross, the hind legs step up and down, but do not cross or pivot. The horse is bent in the direction of the turn.

[Modesto]

She states the horse should be bent in the new direction or straight. Turn on the haunches you maintain bend in the direction of the turn.

[Renn_aissance]

This is why I want to hear the sentence straight from her mouth- I interpret “in the new direction” to be the same as “in the direction of the turn.”

[Modesto]

Very possible, but the “straight” part was clear and that is incorrect.

[Renn_aissance]

At least no one suggested the horse should be bent away from the direction of travel.

I appreciated that the test was called for because if ridden correctly it was a beautiful setup for the counter lead. Some riders understood this and rode it accordingly.

@supershorty628 and I can agree to disagree on the value of the TOH as a test, but if we aren’t going by the USDF definition, we darn well better write down what we want to see (and it should maintain the integrity of the exercise, i.e. it develops collection through adjusting the horse’s weight distribution while maintaining the quality of the gait.) I believe that the new USEF equitation rules for next year are that specific. (I will look that up tomorrow.)

[Rel6]

I agreed TOH has value as a test until listening to the podcast. Before, I thought it had value because it was a defined movement with a set way to be performed (even if that was defined by a different discipline). But to hear someone judging the class refer to it as something a bit different than that defined movement, makes it seem unfair to test as you’re not giving the participants a clear expectation of how to succeed.

[Bella]

I take issue with her statement that riders that ride with the ‘stirrup on the toe’ lack a stable solid base. Nothing could be further from the truth. Rodney Jenkins, Joe Fargis and many many other including quite a few of the big showjumping stars in Europe today ride thus. With correct length leathers, it stabilizes the entire leg so that you ride balanced over the horse and not thrown forward on the neck. I don’t know what was in her mind making that statement but it doesn’t bode well

[TBLover]

Totally agree. I guess she has never looked at jockeys, many of whom ride with just a tiny sliver of toe in the stirrup. Of course, totally different discipline (and I don’t have any idea how they manage to stay on!), but obviously its enough base to support them!!

[fordtraktor]

Maybe it is just me, but I interpreted the “little bit our own TOH” to mean “not a pirouette or a spin” as in, H/J move is different than dressage or reining. It was said in that context. TOH is not the same as a walk pirouette, for instance. Pirouettes have bend and TOH is straight.

Just my thought as a former HJ, now DQ.

[dags]

Because they mention the TOH was to set up for the CC, I took “bend to the new direction” to mean bend in the direction of the turn. A counter-bend would not get you a counter-canter.

It will be a sad sad day when we decide TOH is not a fair equitation test so I hope they get this clarified.

[fordtraktor]

Agreed, it is such a basic dressage move it isn’t even in any of the tests, it’s like pre-Intro!

[Rel6]

Could you post some photos? I have a hard time imagining a stable leg over a 1.5m oxer gripping the stirrup with a toe like a jockey does, and haven’t found photos of Rodney Jenkins or Joe Fargis doing that. Joe Fargis especially seemed to (unsurprisingly) have a pretty classic leg with his stirrup squarely on the ball of his foot, and his students that I know were taught that as well.

[MHM]

@Rel6

and haven’t found photos of Rodney Jenkins

I’ve seen pictures of Rodney doing some pretty unconventional things over jumps on occasion, but that doesn’t mean that mere mortals could do that, or should think they will get the same results. Lol.

Also, the correct position of the foot on the stirrup is clearly specified in the rule book.

[Peggy]

Thoughts on TOH

Eq rules refer to dressage rules so there should be no difference bw those disciplines

Dressage defines TOH and pirouette differently. Dressage definitions are in the USEF rulebook under dressage.

There is a USHJA webinar coming up to talk about the new USEF eq tests and Robin Rost Brown is one of the panelists. I think I posted the registration link upthread.

Without standards almost no movement makes sense as a test. What if some judge decided the standard for posting the trot was to rise and fall with the inside leg?

WRT to the TOH followed by the CC in the new direction. If you start left (don’t remember which way the Maclay test started) the TOH will have the horse bent slightly left. This left bend helps to set you up for a left lead, which will be the CC in the new (right) direction. You have to think more about the bend for TOH followed by true canter. I think that’s what they were getting at.

Peggy
Whose path has been HJ—> eventing —> dressage —> HJ. And some of the HJ was ridden with someone who was very particular about eq tests and broke down the TOH followed by true canter vs CC) for us during one of our epic flat lessons.

[ww3467]

Bobby Murphy shared the Round 1 and 2 courses with specs in case anyone wants to recreate at home!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkyTUUHOpxh/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Screenshots:

[Sarah616]

Wow those maps are great. I never really thought about how he measures away from the walls to get the exact placements of the jumps. The distances in the lines are also very interesting.

[LazyA1]

I read “a little bit of our own” to mean as opposed to reining. In the context she said it.