In the livestream one of the commentators said they were looking for the hind legs to “plant.” With so many different interpretations of the TOH, I think it’s time to retire this from the testing.
3 Likes
Retire or very clearly re-define. I wonder if the language will change as part of the “new” eq tests
1 Like
Let’s not forget that the two primary people doing the commentary are both recent winners of the class. One of them still a junior, and the other maybe around 20 years old if she won the class three years ago?
Not trainers or judges or people who have taught anyone else how to do the movement. So if one of them described it in a way that was a little inaccurate, that’s not a reason to throw that particular baby out with the bathwater, in my opinion.
2 Likes
If you look at the rules that are online for 2023, the wording of that test just says turn on the haunch. It looks like there will be a diagram attached to it, but the diagram is not there as of today.
Turn on the honcho 
3 Likes
That was a little voice to text error, but really, I kind of like it! Maybe that can be the new term.
Why’d you edit it?!
1 Like
I hear what you’re saying and I think the TOH is important for schooling and should be taught, but I was taught that you do NOT want the hind legs to plant and it seems like the judges also wanted to see movement in the hind legs so is it inaccurate or is it wrong to want the hind legs to plant?
And please don’t take this as arguing with you because I really respect your points! It just seems like this test has created some controversy over interpretation rather than everyone universally agreeing on how it should be performed.
1 Like
Was taught and continue to teach the TOH is a forward movement, not a pivot. Therefore the hind legs must continue with some forward as well as sideways movement. TOH is found in a 2nd or 3rd level dressage test as a precursor to the pirouette so forward motion is necessary.
Only stationary turn is a turn on the forehand.
7 Likes
The TOH is an exercise used to develop collection.
Collection requires impulsion and engagement. Those two traits are demonstrated in motion, not at rest.
Therefore it’s important that the TOH maintains a quality four-beat walking rhythm, because the horse should be moving to get benefit from the exercise.
Therefore the back feet lift and plant back down, describing a small semi-circle (for a half turn). They do not cross (an error if done at the walk) and they do not pivot (which would detract from the quality of the gait, which is necessary to the exercise.)
We don’t do tricks because they’re cool, we do them to educate ourselves and our horses.
6 Likes
And why would we ever want to stop the hind end from moving while the front end continues? That’s teaching the horse to rear - stop motion behind and there’s nowhere fir the front end to go but up.
3 Likes
TOH is done from walk and is thus a forward movement as others have said. I was taught to first walk forward a few steps if asked to execute it from a halt.
2 Likes
Why not refer to the FEI definitions of dressage movements if there is confusion how the TOH should be executed? It is spelled out very clearly there. And yes, it’s absolutely critical to maintain the correct 4 beat rhythm of the walk with no crossing, pivoting, getting “stuck”, or stepping out behind.
2 Likes
I listened to the podcast today and I had a different take on the “it’s a little bit of our own” statement. Robin described the motion of the TOH and then said (paraphrased, and punctuation as I heard it) “it’s not a dressage walk pirouette, it’s not a reining spin… it’s a little bit of our own, the turn on the haunches.” I interpreted that as “this is a movement that is distinct from two other movements practiced in other disciplines.” Never mind that the TOH is defined as a dressage movement, since she was defining it essentially the same way, I didn’t think that her intent in that sentence was to suggest that the TOH is different in hunt-seat equitation than in dressage.
2 Likes
Another part of that - dressage horses don’t pirouette at the walk, only at the canter. The do a TOH at the walk.
They do both depending on the level. Third level test 1 has TOH. Fourth level test 1 has walk pirouette. Those are the tests that are about to expire.
The TOH can be up to a meter wider in diameter as compared to the pirouette. Ref - USEF rulebook DR112.
2 Likes
I am nearly certain that they used to, but can’t find any evidence of it in the current rulebook.
That would be a good thing to bring up in the eq test webinar coming up soon.
Back in the dark ages, I learner judged at Maclay regionals with three judges and there was a lot of discussion about TOH because two different scenarios came up wrt TOH. In the first, a TOH was asked for after asking the riders to halt. The rider who came in at or near the top fell several places because they did not walk forward first. The trainer was furious but the judge calmly said, your rider did not perform the test as it is written in the rule book.
The second issue was with a rider who used a TOH when reverse was called for. We had discussion about the rider performing a test which was not asked for and what would we have done with it if they had not done it correctly? You can’t really ding someone for a poor turn on the haunches if you didn’t ask for one, but at the same time, if it is recognizable enough as a TOH and they do not complete it correctly, can you really ignore it?
It was a great learning experience.
6 Likes
Bad look for sure. She was pissed with the results and it showed. She was so rude to the judges sitting next to her. Very cold feel and she was going to make them pay for their decision. Luke was gracious but he had to feel the tension. Sad she was so rude and I hope she apologizes to him and the judges.
I would bet money that it will never occur to her that she might have done anything wrong, and that no one in her world will tell her otherwise.
2 Likes
