^My mother had one year when she did the equitation where she had 2 blues and 26 seconds… she still talks about how frustrating it was!
Sorry to bring this back around to the unfairness debate, but I must disagree slightly with Michaelwatkins. I believe that part of the reason for the rule quoted earlier is to prevent people from showing up in Kentucky and being completely overfaced. Every year, (some) people lament about how the level of riding is decreasing, people are posing, trips are scary, etc. Under Michaelwatkins’ rule, those gripe-y people would be having a coronary.
The regions that are less competitive are for the most part farther from the location of finals, thus resulting in higher costs to attend, less access to top trainers and top horses, therefore as a rule, there are going to be less of your Lillie Keenan/Michael Hughes/etc. types.
That’s not to say that they don’t exist (Sarah Milliren, Kels Bonham, Hayley Barnhill, all those previously mentioned), but they don’t tend to come by the barnload, like Heritage’s crew. Because of this, you’re probably going to have 3-5 really strong performances at these regionals, and then 6-10+ others, ranging from good to fair to poor.
For argument’s sake, let’s say that they take 7 riders from Zone x out of the 20 or so that competed. Riders 3, 6 and 7 can’t go. Let’s also say that we’re going with Michaelwatkin’s proposed idea, so those three spots have to be filled from the region they originated in. 8, 9 and 10 are invited. Only 9 can go. Now 11 and 12 are invited. Only 11 can go. 13 is invited, and 13’s regionals trip included a swap, a stop, and a hairy distance to the last jump. 13 is in the 65th percentile of an already “weak” zone (lower entries, less competitive qualifying classes, etc.).
If our friend 13 from Zone x had competed in Zone 2 under current rules, he/she would have placed 50something, would have had no chance in hell of qualifying, called it a learning experience and would already be back home practicing for next year to try and put in a more competitive regionals trip.
Now let’s spin it back to MW’s proposal. I’m a competitive eq rider from Zone 2 (this is hypothetical, btw) - I’ve been to finals twice already, made the flat and second round in my last outing. I have a swap in an otherwise very good regionals trip and land one spot past the cutoff. Under MW’s rule, it’s likely that our friend 13 with his/her borderline scary regionals round is now headed to Kentucky to have an even scarier trip there, while I sit at home, watching from my computer.
Finals shouldn’t be about giving everyone a chance. Finals are about showcasing the best of the best, and oftentimes, the best of the best isn’t in the bottom half of a weak zone’s regionals. I don’t think it’s fair that that person can earn themselves a trip to Kentucky over someone much more polished and qualified for that environment simply because, well, there wasn’t much to compete against in zone x.
What goodlife said.
Dittoing goodlife, kudos for saying it so well.
[QUOTE=Peggy;7186299]
[B]Sing Mia Song
Region 8[/B]
Maclay Results - http://www.horseshowtime.com/getclassresults.php?p=5222&u=4
Main link to show - http://www.horseshowtime.com/getshowinfo.php?p=5222 click on Show Entries to get a list by number if you want to look up trainers, owners and horses.
I also have the order of go for that one, with horses and owners, if you want me to scan it.
Region 7 (?) PNW
Show - http://www.horseshowtime.com/getshowinfo.php?p=5157
Maclay - http://www.horseshowtime.com/getclassresults.php?p=5157&u=38
Region 6
Show - http://www.horseshowtime.com/getshowinfo.php?p=4764
Maclay - http://www.horseshowtime.com/getclassresults.php?p=4764&u=286[/QUOTE]
Thank you, Peggy!! Let me see what I can fill in and I’ll let you know if I need the order (I think I’ll probably be fine).
[QUOTE=MHM;7186986]
Thank goodness they finally changed it to points instead of wins. I remember an awful tale of a rider in my area who accrued an incredible number of second place finishes without winning a class. 25? 30? Some crazy number like that.[/QUOTE]
I got some ridiculous number of red ribbons my last year from both Medal and Maclay) before I finally got my third Medal blue. Only got 1 Maclay–my flatwork was not very strong on my pudgy little QH with the bouncy canter! I remember one horrible weekend going to a Friday night eq show and 1-days on both Saturday and Sunday and coming home with three blues (because I won the Open Eq over Fences at each of them) and six reds (from the Medal and Maclay at each of them). My poor mother…she kept writing entry checks and I kept coming home with red ribbons and heavy, dramatic sighs about how my life was OVER! Got that last Medal with three days left before the Maclay closed and decided I wasn’t going to put my horse through any more chasing.
[QUOTE=Sing Mia Song;7188821]
I remember one horrible weekend going to a Friday night eq show and 1-days on both Saturday and Sunday and coming home with three blues (because I won the Open Eq over Fences at each of them) and six reds (from the Medal and Maclay at each of them). [/QUOTE]
Augh! That would be awful! First world problems, but still. :eek:
[QUOTE=MHM;7189065]
Augh! That would be awful! First world problems, but still. :eek:[/QUOTE]
LOL! Yep, a first world problem for sure. :yes: I was so freakin’ jealous of the kids from NH, VT and ME who only had to get one measly blue to qualify–doubly so when they qualified for residency by using the address of their parents’ vacation chalet…
I recall a time when we were having a big debate about whether to send a customer’s equitation horse to Vermont with the other horses to see if she could qualify before the looming cut off date. It was a long way, the competition might be stiff, what if she didn’t ride well under the pressure, yada, yada.
In the middle of the discussion, a huge butterfly appeared, landed on that kid’s head on her floral headband, sat there for thirty seconds, then flew away. I said, “Put the horse on the truck! That had to be a sign.”
Sure enough, she won the class she needed. That was a LONG time ago, but I remember it plain as day. 
Or… Let’s say zone 7 is super competitive. Lots of kids spend winters in Fla or Ca with BNTs. The rounds at regionals, for the first 12-15 out if 22, rival the top 12-15 anywhere in the nation. But now only 4 are given invites, when mathematically speaking 9 should be coming from Region 7. The rider who placed 12th, for example , and this is true and not a silly hypothetical, had no swaps, no chips, and a stellar round. There were a number of excellent rounds. But only 4 from region 7 are now invited. Not because the standbys aren’t excellent ( one rides with K Healey, one with S Campf, during many shows including Thermal and other finals) but they get no invite because rider #40 out of region 2 now gets in. And 4 from region 7. I don’t even know what to make of the inequity. All rounds are video’ed. They could look at videos to be sure " scary" people aren’t invited, but still keep the regions fairly represented.
[QUOTE=michaelwatkins;7196302]
Or… Let’s say zone 7 is super competitive. Lots of kids spend winters in Fla or Ca with BNTs. The rounds at regionals, for the first 12-15 out if 22, rival the top 12-15 anywhere in the nation. But now only 4 are given invites, when mathematically speaking 9 should be coming from Region 7. The rider who placed 12th, for example , and this is true and not a silly hypothetical, had no swaps, no chips, and a stellar round. There were a number of excellent rounds. But only 4 from region 7 are now invited. Not because the standbys aren’t excellent ( one rides with K Healey, one with S Campf, during many shows including Thermal and other finals) but they get no invite because rider #40 out of region 2 now gets in. And 4 from region 7. I don’t even know what to make of the inequity. All rounds are video’ed. They could look at videos to be sure " scary" people aren’t invited, but still keep the regions fairly represented.[/QUOTE]
Except that’s not really very accurate either. 4/22 is only 18% of entrants. 40/70 is more than half. Last I checked, they had only accepted around placing number 30 out of the ~70 who competed in zone 2.
[QUOTE=michaelwatkins;7196302]
Or… Let’s say zone 7 is super competitive. Lots of kids spend winters in Fla or Ca with BNTs. The rounds at regionals, for the first 12-15 out if 22, rival the top 12-15 anywhere in the nation. But now only 4 are given invites, when mathematically speaking 9 should be coming from Region 7. The rider who placed 12th, for example , and this is true and not a silly hypothetical, had no swaps, no chips, and a stellar round. There were a number of excellent rounds. But only 4 from region 7 are now invited. Not because the standbys aren’t excellent ( one rides with K Healey, one with S Campf, during many shows including Thermal and other finals) but they get no invite because rider #40 out of region 2 now gets in. And 4 from region 7. I don’t even know what to make of the inequity. All rounds are video’ed. They could look at videos to be sure " scary" people aren’t invited, but still keep the regions fairly represented.[/QUOTE]
Goodlife already got the percentages, so I won’t comment there, but I really don’t think the Maclay selectors are going to watch 150 videos just to make sure all of the rounds were 115% equal. No matter how they select riders there will still be some people who get in when they shouldn’t, or deserving rounds that do not get to go. That’s how the equitation works. Also, riders also have the Medal, WIHS, USET, and several other local finals to aim for, so the regionals should not be the end all be all.
Check again.
[QUOTE=michaelwatkins;7197494]
Check again.[/QUOTE]
No rider placed 40th got through in any region. Which region do you think has unfairly accepted riders?
[QUOTE=michaelwatkins;7196302]
Or… Let’s say zone 7 is super competitive. Lots of kids spend winters in Fla or Ca with BNTs. The rounds at regionals, for the first 12-15 out if 22, rival the top 12-15 anywhere in the nation. But now only 4 are given invites, when mathematically speaking 9 should be coming from Region 7. The rider who placed 12th, for example , and this is true and not a silly hypothetical, had no swaps, no chips, and a stellar round. There were a number of excellent rounds. But only 4 from region 7 are now invited. Not because the standbys aren’t excellent ( one rides with K Healey, one with S Campf, during many shows including Thermal and other finals) but they get no invite because rider #40 out of region 2 now gets in. And 4 from region 7. I don’t even know what to make of the inequity. All rounds are video’ed. They could look at videos to be sure " scary" people aren’t invited, but still keep the regions fairly represented.[/QUOTE]
You can’t calculate it as 4 being taken, take into account those who were offered, but will not show. The last person accepted is 7th, but the first wait list was 15th! That means 14/20 were offered a spot. That’s 70%. If anything, this is working in favour of region 7!
It makes sense. It should not be a certain number from each region until the region is empty.
Simply not accurate statistically. Kritschgau, who is now first on standby, was 11th in the regionals. Fort, who was 12th, is second on standby. Niemi is next. All of them had nice rounds. But 9 from the region are supposed to go. Clearly that is the math, and can’t be challenged. Only 4 have invites. The other 5 slots dedicated to region 7 have been given to the “bigger” regions as the top 9 ( some) in region 7 have opted out because of distance/ money, or whatever. Other regions are the benefactors of the distance and cost the Region 7 folks have to deal with. It is just, quite flatly, wrong. Region 7 is protesting officiallly, but unlikely it gets changed this year. It is such a contested issue, it needs to be decided fairly, and is clearly biased in favor of east coast now. We have enough politics in the USA now- can’t we get that stuff out of high school sports?
Are we confusing Region 7, (Pacific Northwest) with Zone 7 (midwest)?
[QUOTE=michaelwatkins;7198742]
Simply not accurate statistically. Kritschgau, who is now first on standby, was 11th in the regionals. Fort, who was 12th, is second on standby. Niemi is next. All of them had nice rounds. But 9 from the region are supposed to go. Clearly that is the math, and can’t be challenged. Only 4 have invites. The other 5 slots dedicated to region 7 have been given to the “bigger” regions as the top 9 ( some) in region 7 have opted out because of distance/ money, or whatever. Other regions are the benefactors of the distance and cost the Region 7 folks have to deal with. It is just, quite flatly, wrong. Region 7 is protesting officiallly, but unlikely it gets changed this year. It is such a contested issue, it needs to be decided fairly, and is clearly biased in favor of east coast now. We have enough politics in the USA now- can’t we get that stuff out of high school sports?[/QUOTE]
I don’t think it would be “fair” to let kids placing in the bottom half of region 7 qualify for the national final in front of people in the top half of other regions. It is unfortunate that the expense of travelling to Kentucky caused so many qualified riders to give up their spots, but unless the finals move around the country it’s always going to be harder for some kids to get there. Maybe you could work to set up some sort of fund to help pay shipping expenses for the farther regions.
Region 7 is the PNW, is it not? Either I’m just completely losing it, or does this not say that 8 have been invited?
http://www.alltechnationalhorseshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/MACLAY-FINALISTS-REGION-73.pdf
There were 20 entries in the class, as per horseshowtime.com. 8 out of 20 invited is already 40%, which is quite high, as far as Maclay percentages go. If only 4 of those 8 invited choose to go, why should someone in the bottom half of the class be invited?
I believe the rule is that for every person who declines an invite, only one more person per ten entries will gain one. Therefore Lauren Myers probably should, but other than that, I’d say better luck next year. Rules are rules. 
