Major position issues over fences

[cckaila]

I’m a very critical person to myself and often if I have one part about a picture I don’t like(mainly my awful position), I hate it entirely. I personally find my position over fences very ugly, especially my upper body and hips. I absolutely hate how I look over fences in the jumper ring and I’m very self-conscious about how ugly others are going to think it looks.

For me it’s hard to move my hips forward over a fence and close my hip angle, and let my hands follow my horse’s mouth. I think I have a very defensive position that is somewhat stiff at times so I tend to not let myself move forward sometimes. I cannot for the life of me find a good way for me to understand how to relax and get my hips forward and upper body to come over my horse’s neck more and not be so far back. If I do try to bring my hips forward I’ll stiff up on my knees, calves, and drop my shoulders.

Hips aren’t even slightly forward
Possibly the ugliest position I’m capable of
Awful release and hips not forward
Whole body slipping back to the cantle

If needed I can provide a video too.

[CindyCRNA]

I love your lower leg and heel. I will let others chime in on your upper body but I would like to at least point out you have a nice lower leg.

[TWH_Girl]

I would like to point out you shouldn’t be so hard on yourself. You’re doing so much more than so many others are capable of. Good to strive to improve but you’ve gotta lose the negativity and focus on improving In a positive way!

[StormyDay]

I don’t think you are having major issues IMO you need to release more. The main problem I see is that because you aren’t releasing your upper body stays too high up. Do you tend to sit down too soon on the other side of the jump too?
There are many exersizes to fix release issues but I would try setting up a bounce exersize so you don’t have to worry about distances, pick a spot about halfway up on your horses neck, and practice releasing to there. Do a hunter release, not a automatic even though it may feel weird. You can switch back to automatic when releasing feels more natural.

Also, it looks like your stirrups may be a touch too long but it can be hard to tell with jumping pics.

[IPEsq]

You don’t want your hips forward (I do that and it’s a flaw). Moving your hips forward would actually open your hip angle because you’d be standing over the pommel). You could give a longer crest release which may help you not feel like you are perching. But it’s really not that bad!

[hunterjumper98]

Honestly, your position is not as bad as you make it sound! It’s easy to be really hard on yourself, but every single person has something about their position that they don’t like - even the top eq riders! I don’t think I know a single person who has a 100% perfect position.

Your leg and heel look really great, and I actually really like how you keep your head and chest up. Too many riders like to flop all over their horse’s neck, which is not what you want.

From looking at the pictures, I want to say that you are getting left behind at the jumps at varying degrees, which causes the lack of release and your butt to slid back towards the cantle. When your horse goes to take off, you are not with the horse’s motion and following with your hand. This causes your whole body to be left behind giving you the impression that you aren’t opening your hips. In actuality, your hips are plenty open - you just aren’t catching the forward motion of the horse’s jump that can help “bump” you up into the correct position. Getting left behind also causes you to snatch your hands back in an effort to hold on rather than following the horse’s head in balance. It is basically the opposite of jumping ahead.

Here’s my suggestion: If you are really doing what I think you’re doing, holding two-point position a few strides before jumps and grabbing mane should help you develop a feel. Really focus on how your horse’s jumping motion pushes you out of the saddle. Whenever you jump, grab mane to help you stay up and give a proper release.

[Edre]

There have already been some fantastic comments that have covered a lot. Something else that might be helpful to consider is your saddle fit. First, do you fit your saddle? And then even if you do, is it a balance that’s optimal to you? That ends up being a personal preference, but I know there are some styles of saddle that even if I fit in, I end up a hot mess simply because the balance it puts me in isn’t ideal for how I ride.

As people have already mentioned, there’s a lot to like in the photos you’ve posted. I can see what you’re talking about when you mention defensive riding. Something that I’ve done in the past with great success (I had a habit of being “in the back seat” with a horse that was really aggressive to fences and on the back side) is that I banded (or braid, your preference) the point in the mane where I felt placing my hand at was optimal for the release. That way I had both a visual cue for “hey, hands - more forward, please” and I could actually reach/grab on that in my crest release. (I found that a grab strap didn’t encourage my hand to come forward adequately, but many people use those to great success.)

Another thing that might be worth doing is looking at cavaletti and just going into your jumping position through a grid of cavaletti and working on building muscle memory on where you want yourself to be. If you want to be more ambitious, cavaletti on a circle at a height that encourages some jump in the canter (or an actual jump) that you just stay in jump position for. I wouldn’t say drill either of these exercises (for you and your horse’s sanity) but it can be a good way to help you figure out the mechanics of what it feels like when your body is where you want it to be, and with a little repetition and trial and error, you may find it helps you learn the feel for where you should be, and how to get there.

[melula]

Post a pic of a rider who, in your mind, is doing it right. There are always things to improve and snapshots don’t tell the whole story, but your body image might be off.

[rockonxox]

I would love to have your legs! Mine are always slipping and I have a real hard time with that. You aren’t ducking or jumping ahead which are two pet peeves of mine. I personally fold too much most of the time and have been working on keeping my upper body more balanced over the horse. I think you look pretty great in these and are being a bit harsh on yourself – but I understand that as I too am a perfectionist and focus on what I see as bad vs what I’m doing well.

For the release, I have seen some riders work with holding their hands out to the side over fences (exaggerated) in Anne Kursinski clinics. It makes you really focus on your body and not relying on your hands for balance. There was a recent live stream she did this in, but what I found is a video of an old one (same technique years later): https://www.equisearch.com/articles/video-anne-kursinski-automatic-release-53293

Also, if you aren’t yet you may want to add in gymnastics. We’ve recently started doing that in my lessons and it is so much easier to think about your position that way versus over singles and down the line.

[NoSuchPerson]

@cckaila

For me it’s hard to move my hips forward over a fence

Good, because, like IPEsq said, you aren’t supposed to move your hips forward over a fence. “Closing your hip angle” is more of a folding down motion than a moving forward motion. If anything, you probably want to think of your hips as moving back, rather than forward.

I think most of us need some kind of visualization that brings us to a good position. But I also think that visualization isn’t going to be the same for everyone. Oddly, mine isn’t even a rider, it’s a downhill skier, weight balanced perfectly over her feet.

Like melula suggested, find a picture of someone whose position you want to emulate. Hold that position in your mind and try to mimic it, first on the ground, then on your horse.

[JenEM]

Your base it really nice and solid, all you really need to change is a bit more closure to the hips, and a little more generous release for the horse. Those two thing should follow one another pretty nicely.

Have you tried something like a neckstrap or a few braids in the mane, positioned where your hands should be, or perhaps a bit ahead of where they should be? Knowing you need to do it, and giving you a point to actually see and put your hands, can make a big difference. You want to be thinking about reaching forward enough to free up your horse’s head so he can use himself to the best of his ability

[no.stirrups]

I don’t think you have a problem so much as you are comparing yourself to the other riders and realizing you don’t look like them. But that is because they are jumping ahead, not so much that you are behind! Jumping ahead is practically an epidemic. You appear to be in balance and over your foot, with a deep heel and not getting in your horse’s way. OK, so you are slightly behind in some of the pictures and not releasing enough in one, but I suspect you have chosen your worst pictures to share. Go jump a bunch of grids. They will naturally put you in the right place and you will get a hang of what that feels like if you don’t already. I wish more people rode like you!

[DunByMistake]

If that second picture is the ugliest release you’re capable of, I’d say you’re in pretty good shape.

You have a really nice base of support - strong lower leg and you’re not throwing your hips out of the saddle. I would agree that in last 2 pictures you maybe got left behind a little bit. You definitely could give your horse more release with your arms. A clinician I ride with makes us ‘practice our release’ when we warm up or start a course so your horse learns not to take off when rider goes into 2 point. This allows you to go into 2 point a couple strides early (and get your arms forward) without your horse rushing fence. I would practice that. You clearly don’t need your hands or reins to balance so think of exaggerating release for a while.

One thing to consider. It’s hard to judge from jumping photos but I wonder if your saddle might be on the small side - which is why your bum is touching cantle a bit. You look like you’re somewhat shaped like me (long femur) and I need a forward flap and a 18" seat - and my butt is a looooong way from bootylicious. In a smaller saddle when I close my hip to 2 point, I touch the cantle of the saddle because there just isn’t enough room behind me.

[SugarCubes]

Didn’t read all the replies but had to tell you to stop being so hard on yourself! Your base of support looks awesome, I wish my leg stayed in place like yours! All I would suggest is to push your hands forward before the fence and let your body follow. Driving reins might also be helpful!

[Janet]

I think your hips are in exactly the right place.
THAT isn’t you problem.
You DO NOT want to be “over the horse’s neck” That is “jumping ahead”. Just because lots of people have that fault is no reason to try to emulate it

In SOME of the pictures you could CLOSE you hips a bit more. It might FEEL as if you are “dropping your shoulders”, but that IS what you need to do to close your hips.

In the winter pictures, your elbows are back near your hips (not so much in the two pictures with short sleeves). This probably means that your reins are too long, and/or you are balancing on the reins (I think mostly the latter).

One way you deal with this is to jump with no contact. Tie a knot in the reins. In the last stride or so, let the reins rest on the horse’s neck. You can grab mane, or rest your hands on the neck until you become more balanced and confident. Then you can hold your hands alongside the neck without touching, or even out to the side. Start with a simple cross rail, then progress to a bigger fence, and to a a combination/grid exercise.

Another exercise, off the horse, standing on the ground, is to go from standing to assuming a jumping position, pushing your hands forward as they would be on the horse. You will quickly discover that, in order to keep your balance, you HAVE to push your hips backward as you lower your shoulders.

You can do something similar on horseback. At a halt, and then at a walk, go into jumping position, and maintain it without touching the neck and with slack in the reins. If you can, do it going both up and down hill. (It is harder to maintain balance in jumping position at a walk than a canter.)

[MtnDrmz]

OK, so my first thought when looking at the pics was, you are young and needing a confidence boost, maybe “fishing for compliments”, because these are nothing like what you described! I would too love to see what you think is a great position, because hips over the pommel is not ideal.

If you do want to get in the middle more, one of my favorite exercises is a no hands gymnastic. Tie your reins in a knot so they aren’t flopping all over, and go through a gymnastic with your arms out to the sides. That really helps you find the right muscles quickly, and forces you to be in the center. It looks like you have a good leg so maybe ask your trainer if you can give it a shot.

Also second on the saddle fit, and also the feel. When I’m in a slick saddle I will tend to slip back more easily. Usually this is only when a saddle is new and not worn in yet, but some leather just ends up slick as a skating rink without constant oiling.

[Bogie]

I expected to see terrible photos and yours aren’t bad at all! The worst one was when you got left and ended up over the cantle. That makes me wonder if your saddle doesn’t put you in the right balance. Try jumping in a few different saddles. I think your leg and position are good. Plus, use a neck strap. It will help you prevent getting left and also keep you from pulling back too much.

[cckaila]

Well firstly thank you to everyone who replied!

It does make me feel not as bad about my position, but I’m just an over the top perfectionist when it comes to anything I do so most of the time I will not feel like I’m actually good enough until I see a picture where I think I look good.

Thank you for the tips about what things I should work on, especially with release. Usually my trainer has me do a good amount of grid work and other various exercises such as not having any reins while jumping, and no stirrup flat/jump work. I guess I just need to put a little band in his mane so I can help myself out to give him more release and not feel as guilty seeing pictures where I look like I’m ripping his mouth out.

But as far as saddle fit goes it’s a 17.5 with a forward flap and I’ve already had to make one upgrade in size once since my last saddle was a pain to ride in and my knees ended up slightly going over the knee flaps.

[BatataHead]

I think everyone else has said it all, but I feel compelled to chime in and say I wish I looked as solid as you do over fences. I also think possibly that saddle is too small or otherwise not right for you, and all you’d need to do is move your hands forward to “fix” things. That said, as someone with some actual bad position issues over fences, I might not be the one to give advice.

[Daventry]

I think you are doing a great job. As others have already said, you do not want your hip coming forward, as this will prevent you from being able to close your hip angle over fences. The first thing that I noticed is that you might benefit from a saddle with a larger seat and a longer flap. You look like a tall girl. Sometimes riders with longer legs need a bit more saddle room.