As an aside, I have a book categorizing dog bites. I believe it was written in the 1980’s.
Interestingly enough at that time the retrospective studies showed that the greatest number children killed by dogs were killed by working sled dog breeds. This was attributed to the common practice of whelping sled dogs outside, as most of the children killed were by bitches with litters.
Who authored the book, what is the title and publisher?
It should make interesting reading.
according to an article in an English newspaper an injured pit bull needed medical help because one ear was torn off.
As it turns out this was the docile unwilling to fight bitch used to bait, train the fighting pit bulls. Dog fighting is illegal and luckily for that bitch she was rescued.
Please understand I neither favour nor disfavour pit bulls and don’t understand dogs that apparently out of the blue turn killer.
The owners of the fighting pits, as that football player who was cheered when he returned to the field after being charged with animal cruelty, are the true vermin amongst us and so are those fans that did the cheering. A more appropriate response would have been to boo him out of the game.
2 Likes
I don’t know any GSD’s that work in herding, but I do know many, many Collies with herding titles as well as their breed championship.
Maybe because the GSD’s herding style is different than the collie and many of the more “common” herding breeds. A herding test oriented toward a fetching style of herding will not draw, I suspect, the GSDs as that is not their strong suit.
Not all herding dogs work with stock the same way.
[QUOTE=DrBeckett;9045075]
so just because we know what someone means we should accept (or should I write “except” because you know what I mean) people’s poor spelling? If you don’t want me to be “pedantic” then write it properly. I see this on multiple threads and we should know better.[/QUOTE]
People make spelling mistakes for a variety of reasons, auto correct makes a lot of mine because if I’m in a hurry I don’t have time to correct them. If my allergies are acting up my eyes get very watery and I make mistakes then as well. Some people are dyslexic, for others language/grammar are not their strong point. Others are suffering from chronic pain/fatigue which also hampers their spelling. When my hands are aching from arthritis or cysts, typing helps relieve it at times, guaranteed I’m going to make spelling mistakes then.
1 Like
How is keeping a dog in a fenced back yard any different from keeping a tiger in a zoo enclosure? I’ve seen zoo enclosures for antelopes that were a whole lot larger than some urban and suburban yards. But the antelopes are still in the zoo and have no freedom.
How would YOU like to live on leash or in a fenced in yard? And don’t tell me I’m anthropomorphizing because I’ve seen what that kind of life can do to a dog’s initiative.
[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;9045549]
Maybe because the GSD’s herding style is different than the collie and many of the more “common” herding breeds. A herding test oriented toward a fetching style of herding will not draw, I suspect, the GSDs as that is not their strong suit.
Not all herding dogs work with stock the same way.[/QUOTE]
I know people that title their GSD in herding, boundary herding is called.
It is not border collie type herding.
They have their own rules to go by, that fit their dog’s purpose.
I just happen to believe that for many, many dogs life in a fenced back yard is a form of sadism practiced by humans who don’t care a damn about the dog’s needs. They only care about themselves and having a pet–even if the pet is unsuitable. Tiny dogs are generally suitable for that kind of life because they are useless except as pets and have been bred for that purpose.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;9045664]
Tiny dogs are generally suitable for that kind of life because they are useless except as pets and have been bred for that purpose.[/QUOTE]
what an unpleasantly narrow point of view. Debi Davis had a Papillon named Peek, that was 1999 Service dog of the year. My own Paps are quite useful little dogs. They both fetch things for me, and they are both quite nice little obedience dogs. Once I retire, we’ll start agility.
“useless except as pets”, which of course makes it sound like pets aren’t worth much either.
Nice.
6 Likes
[QUOTE=vineyridge;9045664]
I just happen to believe that for many, many dogs life in a fenced back yard is a form of sadism practiced by humans who don’t care a damn about the dog’s needs. They only care about themselves and having a pet–even if the pet is unsuitable. Tiny dogs are generally suitable for that kind of life because they are useless except as pets and have been bred for that purpose.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that a lot of the smaller breeds where breed to hunt rats and other small rodents as to prevent them from damaging food and personal items.
Including the mini poodle. There are pest control companies that do this even today with trained dogs.
Hardly useless.
5 Likes
I prefer bigger dogs, but being old and not that active a little dog makes more sense.
Being hard of hearing, my dogs have always been my ears for all that I need to be aware of around me, not useless pets, any size they have been.
Dogs you live with alert to what is going on around you, when something is needing attention, which is priceless to someone that can’t hear much.
We always had several dogs of all sizes, didn’t think any of them were useless because they were any one size, strange thought.
That a dog is little just makes them more portable, easier to live with and manage.
1 Like
It is not border collie type herding.
They have their own rules to go by, that fit their dog’s purpose.
Actually, it depends on what organization is offering the titles. AKC has herding and with each level, a few different tests. If your dog passes the test, you title (greatly oversimplified here).
For many years, owners of breeds that were not of the “fetching” type didn’t really even try AKC herding as the majority of tests were oriented toward the fetching style of herding.
There may be other organizations that offer herding titles, IDK (having been out of the herding scene for a number of years). It could be that border collies offer titles for BC’s but for the most part, any generic herding title can be won by any breed…
vineyridge:I just happen to believe that for many, many dogs life in a fenced back yard is a form of sadism practiced by humans who don’t care a damn about the dog’s needs. They only care about themselves and having a pet–even if the pet is unsuitable. Tiny dogs are generally suitable for that kind of life because they are useless except as pets and have been bred for that purpose.
I have seen plenty of dogs (tiny, medium and large) go into the big fenced yard with a quick run around the periphery and then, back to the door. They want to be with their people. Especially see this in working breeds. Especially with working breeds. People that can’t be around them daily, tend to find out they are not easy to own. I don’t see many of them. Usually medium size and mutts. I am so used to yards and dogs, I find above laughable.
It comes down to proximity. And really, more than dog bites, issues of dogs crapping on other people’s property. The majority of people who own dogs have appropriate dogs and the ones that don’t find themselves doing double the work or become the problem.
People who fear crime, purposely buying dogs for protection, easy to see how that can escalate and that can be rural or urban.
Anyone around horses has probably been around loose barn dogs. I always noticed dogs that run loose around farms tend to not be exotic breeds that can go far and wander. HWY and Rds take care of it.
Number one problem with loose dogs at a barn was usually the boarder/rider who thought they could bring their dogs to run loose and free without asking. Barn’s aren’t dog parks and neither are neighborhoods.
1 Like
[QUOTE=vineyridge;9045664]
I just happen to believe that for many, many dogs life in a fenced back yard is a form of sadism practiced by humans who don’t care a damn about the dog’s needs. They only care about themselves and having a pet–even if the pet is unsuitable. Tiny dogs are generally suitable for that kind of life because they are useless except as pets and have been bred for that purpose.[/QUOTE]
Do you feel the same about horses? Being locked up in a stall and only have access to a paddock or small field compared to the wide open country sides their ancestors had, is acceptable to you?
What about the cats that have been domesticated and are forced to live in the lap of indoor luxury, hamsters and birds in a small cage, fish in a tank, etc…?
Have you ever personally owned any of the above?
3 Likes
[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;9045549]
Maybe because the GSD’s herding style is different than the collie and many of the more “common” herding breeds. A herding test oriented toward a fetching style of herding will not draw, I suspect, the GSDs as that is not their strong suit.
Not all herding dogs work with stock the same way.[/QUOTE]
Shepherds “guard” herd. Their herding technique is much gentler and of a protective nature. It’s more like gathering than herding.
They don’t chase/herd livestock like a collie does.
We trained border collies to compete in dog herding trials, a very specific way to herd that border collies are the best at doing.
I have friends that raised german bred GSD and they followed the german rules of herding to title their dogs, here is a bit on that:
http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/german-shepherd-herding/
There are clubs in the US that follow those, as my friends were breeders and participants in those in the East and had several dogs they titled.
That was a couple decades ago, not sure where that went today, if GSD breeders still pursue that.
What many may not know is that, after all those Rin-Tin-Tin old movies made GSD so popular, the breed expansion hurt it by people breeding to anything just to sell puppies and the GSD of that time ended up with some undesirable dogs, becoming the first breed to be considered dangerous, as there were many of them and also many bad actors in them.
Later Dobies and later yet Rotties and now Pit Bulls are the ones that are being targeted as a breed.
Somewhere there, cockers also became popular and had the same problem, ask any groomer or vet, but cockers just don’t have the size to cause as much damage as a larger dog, although they can tear a kid just as well if they become aggressive, any dog may and many of all breeds have.
Ask any vet or groomer about the chi’s they get to handle, some really ferocious ones.
In reality, which dogs as a breed may become a problem for society at large depends on how popular they become and how many fall in bad hands, where the dogs cause trouble, as now with pit bulls and always with a few other breeds.
1 Like
Some of the most vicious dogs that ever appeared on Dog Whisperer were Chi’s, Min Pin’s, and a particularly nasty mini Dachshund. The owners of all three breeds seemed to realize the animals were aggressive, but seemed to also think that their biting, and attacking was cute.
3 Likes
Vacation1
This is the current official position from membership organizations for people employed in industries which make money from the rehoming, breeding and endless “rehabbing” of pit bulls, and in the treatment and euthanasia of animals attacked by pit bulls. This position is ethically contemptible. It asserts that breed-specific bans don’t work, without mentioning that 99% of the studies which “prove” that were funded by advocacy organizations laser-focused on preserving the “right” of people to own, breed, buy and sell pit bulls. It offers as a solution a) education of dog owners and b) laws that focus on dog behavior. Since the vast majority of owners who clearly need further “education” on how to prevent their furbabies from taking lives are owners of specific breeds yet we’re not supposed to acknowledge breeds, that approach is a setup for a huge waste of time and money. Lecturing owners of Italian Greyhounds and beagles mixes on the virtues of spay/neuter, leashing and adequate fencing is pointless - outside some rural areas of the US, those messages are loud and clear already. As to the flatly, unabashedly BS answer that laws focusing on dog behavior are the way forward, that’s actually vicious. Who in the dog world is more aggressively resistant to the idea of a demonstrably violent dog being “punished” than the pit owners? Every time one of them attacks, mauls, kills or otherwise has a little “maintenance failure”, the owner goes wailing to Pit Bull Nation, which bullies everyone they can find. Look at the pit owners and organizations trying to bully Ontario into releasing 21 fighting-bred, fighting-trained pit bulls that were assessed by the US SPCA (not a hotbed of BSL advocates, a more pitty-friendly group is hard to find) as too violent to be safely rehomed. Breed-blind law enfocement leads to the situation we already have - equal fines and punishment for wildly varying behaviors.
I also don’t agree with people who feel that a dangerous dog, of any breed, should be saved at all costs. Neither do I read that into the statement from the CFHS that I posted.
My concerns I have with BSL is that it focuses attention on one breed which to my thinking takes focus from dealing with dangerous dogs of any breed.
I do believe that there are dangerous dogs that must be euthanized - I just think they come in many breeds. Having a BSL which picks one group of dogs and ignores the breed that was the #1 breed for dog bites when the legislation was struck and continues to be so now (GSD) says to me that the legislation is not about protecting people from dogs who are dangerous, but is only addressing one very vocal group of citizens who have an issue with one breed. Actually its even worse because the legislation is so open to manipulation- the dog can be any breed as long as a bylaw officer says it looks like that breed. And of course I use the term “breed” very loosely.
2 Likes
Bluey: Later Dobies and later yet Rotties and now Pit Bulls are the ones that are being targeted as a breed.
The issue with pitbulls is not a “now”. The shelters weren’t filled with dobies and rotties in the 60s-90s. Pits started visibly increasing by me around late 90s, 2000. There was a little pushback after some attacks became public, but it seems mid-2000, there was a huge push from factions in animal rights to promote pits as adoptable wonder dogs and a huge push in recent years to promote No-kill and adopt all animals out.
The combination of the two, people ignorantly and purposely breeding pits with American bull dogs and mastiffs and GS (lots just in the name of protection) along with those who think its just fine to take those puppies across stateliness to save them and adopt them out… imo… it just keeps getting worse, not better.
2 Likes
Isn’t it funny, all this rhetoric about the dangers posed by fighting Pitts none seem interested in the perpetrators of the pit bull organized fights. Even the star football player whose home was found to house many fighting Pitts by the Humane Soviety. Many showing evidence of fighting. It was all over the news. Said player hung one losing dog by the neck.
When he returned to the game following his conviction the crows cheered. Dogs pay, they always do.
