Man fatally mauled, dog killed, by pit bulls on dog walk

[khall]

Skyon good grief how ridiculous can you be? “If someone only read your descriptions, you would have been lead to believe the police just opened fire on the party due to loud noise and the dog was no factor at all.” My focus is the reckless use of the firearm period. That the dog did not cause this teenager’s death but the police officers that recklessly and without regard discharged their firearms shooting 7-8 rounds not even killing the dog but instead killing the teenager. I also pointed out there are other less lethal means of subduing the dog (taser) yet no you make ridiculous claims that I don’t care about this young man’s death only about the dog. What I care about is the police officers that are willfully and recklessly using their weapons leading to innocent deaths. See above articles I posted.

I never even mentioned a “party”. When use of deadly weapons are in play, their should never be “unfortunate incidence” where a teenager loses his life from police officers ricochet. They knew the kid was around, he had already intervened with the dog once, yet the officers never thought about him as they shot at the dog from 7 ft away. This death is not the dog’s fault but the officers who discharged their weapons in such a reckless manner.

There is much we do not know about this story, since only the officers that were involved are able to tell their side of the story. The dog obviously cannot talk and the teenager is dead.

[skyon]

And in your post above, again you never mentioned the dog actually made contact and bit the officer.

[khall]

Skyon and you are saying NOTHING about the dead teenager. It is just appalling to me that these police officers (2 of the 5) could shoot at a dog that is 5 ft away and not kill the dog. In fact the dog was able to leave on his own 4 feet. That coupled with the fact their inept shooting led to the death of the teenager who was trying to help both them and the dog IMO these officers should not be carrying and using their guns.

As for the officer who was supposedly bitten, he was also hit by ricochet, yet was able to be treated and released from the hospital. While a mother has to bury her son.

Quote from one article: As they were conducting an investigation, a 60 to 65 pound pit bull “aggressively charged” at deputies and bit one of them on his left knee. The deputy was not seriously injured.
same article: The same deputy who was bitten was also struck by a “skip” round, sheriff’s officials said. He was treated at a medical center and released.

I’m sorry, but this is very much an injustice and the police were responsible for this young man’s death, not the dog regardless if CT wants to try to paint it that way or not.

[skyon]

@khall

Skyon and you are saying NOTHING about the dead teenager.

You are correct. I also didn’t start posts about the injustice to the dog.

[Sswor]

@pezk

Well, this thread is still going strong and nothing has changed but CE gets canceled. Yup. Same old same old.

Similar observations here.

[CanadianTrotter]

@khall

As for the dog going after the police officers there are less lethal (i.e. taser) ways to subdue the dog that would not result in the death of an innocent bystander.

CT “You are an extremist and as with all extremists, you’re judgement is very clouded.” Back at you. You are an extremist in your hatred and disgust of the bullies and it shows in each and every post when it comes to any of the bullies. This in particular shows how you want to attach any and all possible outcomes to a dog when it was a police officers bullet that killed that teenager not the dog. Who BTW the teenager handled without being bitten.

I wasn’t aware that all cops carry tasers.

Yes, a cop’s bullet killed the teen and injured another officer but police would not have shot their weapons if the dog was not attacking. Again…what were they supposed to do, stand there scratching their arses while getting ripped apart?

Where did you read that the teen wasn’t bitten? Until further reports come in you have no proof of this.

I harbour absolutely no hate or disgust for any pit bull or any other animal for that matter.

[khall]

CT “ripped apart” really? Where did you see that the cop was getting ripped apart? Did you not read the quote from the article above? The cop that was supposedly bitten who was also hit by a stray bullet or ricochet was treated and released for his injuries.

You could have fooled me, considering every post I have read you talk about BSLs against the bullies and like in this instance, placing the blame on the dog rather than officers that were recklessly shooting at it, subsequently killing the teenager.

As for what the cops should have done, heck there were 5 of them. They could have helped the teenager corral the dog since according to all that I read said that he had taken the dog away. No where did any article suggest that the young man was bitten, just that he was hit in the chest by a ricochet or stray bullet which killed him. Police are too quick to pull their guns and shoot, and they were piss poor shots at that. So what do you say about 2 officers, shooting 7-8 rounds from 5 ft away and did not kill the dog? In fact the dog ran away.

Again we only have the word of the officers there.

What police commonly carry:

Equipment commonly carried on the belt includes: handcuff, radios, baton, hand-held protection devices such as pepper spray, firearms and ammunition, taser, flashlights, batteries, gloves, pens, pencils, keys, multi-tool, window punch etc.

So they could have used pepper spray or a taser to subdue the dog rather than using deadly force. From the reports that I read the officer that was bitten (on the knee) sustained minor wounds both from the dog and from the ricochet. That does not sound like he should have been in fear for his life (which is when deadly force should be used). They all had other avenues to use rather than resorting to their firearms.

[CanadianTrotter]

Links to support your claims?

[khall]

The same Los Angeles County deputy that was bitten by the dog was also hit by a bullet fragment Thursday but survived. He was treated at a hospital and released.

from here: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-fatally-shot-calif-police-after-bullet-aimed-pit-bull-n775886

This article says the dog was 10 ft away others say 5 ft away when shot at. Both are pretty darn close and also shows how reporters are inconsistent with their reporting.

As for what police officers carry here: http://www.policehow.com/police-gear-equipment.php

[sisu27]

Very sad that this boy lost his life in all this.

The cops clearly shoot first and ask questions later when confronted with an attacking PB. Not sure I really blame them when every day you hear a terrible story involving the breed.

I am very anti-BSL but the fact is this thread won’t die for a reason. Steady stream of new material to fuel it.

[CanadianTrotter]

@khall

The same Los Angeles County deputy that was bitten by the dog was also hit by a bullet fragment Thursday but survived. He was treated at a hospital and released.

from here: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-fatally-shot-calif-police-after-bullet-aimed-pit-bull-n775886

This article says the dog was 10 ft away others say 5 ft away when shot at. Both are pretty darn close and also shows how reporters are inconsistent with their reporting.

As for what police officers carry here: http://www.policehow.com/police-gear-equipment.php

The officers didn’t see the teen, they didn’t know he was there.

When a dog that had already bit one of them charged a group of deputies, two of them opened fire. Authorities say they did not see the teenage boy standing some 30 feet behind, who was struck down by a bullet that apparently bounced on the concrete and hit him in the chest.

The dog was most likely in full attack mode. How many people, trained officers or not, have the ability to think clearly and not panic when an aggressive and deadly pit bull is charging and attacking them?

The 17-year-old, who had helped to restrain the dog after the first bite,

The dog was restrained behind the building out of the officers sight, again…they didn’t know the teen was there.

After the male pit bull first bit the deputy, Garcia-Muro restrained the dog behind the apartment complex that is also home to his mother, his aunt, and a neighbor who owns the dog. Then it broke loose and charged again.

Deputies shot and wounded the dog when it was about 10 feet away, then chased it as it tried to run back behind the building, officials said. Only then did they see that the boy, who had been standing about 40 feet away, had also remerged from behind the building and had been hit in the chest by a so-called “skip round” that had ricocheted off the pavement.

Once again, the dog was restrained behind the building and out of the officer’s sight…they didn’t know the teen was there.

Your provided article says the below items. Including a taser, are “generally” carried. That does not mean that all officers carry tasers and until further investigation we have no idea if any of them carried a taser.

They generally hold the following items: handcuffs, pistols, extra magazines/pistol rounds, tasers, mace/OC pepper spray, flashlights, handheld transponder device, batons, knife or multi-functional tools, keys, basic first aid items, and disposable gloves, which are used to treat wounded victims or investigate crime scenes.

Even if one or all of the officers carried a taser, knowing that it may not have been effective is reason alone for reaching for their guns instead. I also believe that anyone that knows anything about pit bulls also know that the chances of pepper spray working when they are in aggressive attack mode is highly unlikely.

The drawback to using a taser is that it only allows for one shot and sometimes the device can malfunction

[CanadianTrotter]

I also found this article when searching to see how effective a taser actually is when used on an attacking pit bull.

https://www.guardian-self-defense.com/securityblog/stun-guns-effective-against-pit-bull-attacks/

I have to say that I am completely bewildered as to why any dog owner would want to own a dog that is so potentially dangerous that even the enthusiasts encourage carrying a “breaking stick” or “stun gun”.

Pit Bull enthusiasts will tell you that a responsible owner always has a ‘breaking stick’ on hand in case an animal fight takes place. With the traditional ‘breaking stick’ the jaws are pried open. Many are now recommending the use of stun guns to break up fights, even referring to them as ‘electronic breaking sticks’.

A common myth is that Pits have a mechanism that allows them to lock there jaws on their prey. This is simply not true, there jaws are massively strong and the breed very stubborn. Stubborn in the fact that they often will not let go once latched on to something. Traditional breaking sticks are effective but if not careful can end up getting bit while trying to prey the jaw open. With a stun gun or baton by touching the electric rod to the skin of the animal success is often immediate.

[CanadianTrotter]

@sisu27

Very sad that this boy lost his life in all this.

The cops clearly shoot first and ask questions later when confronted with an attacking PB. Not sure I really blame them when every day you hear a terrible story involving the breed.

I am very anti-BSL but the fact is this thread won’t die for a reason. Steady stream of new material to fuel it.

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

[khall]

CT the cops knew the teenager was there initially, they had interacted with him when he restrained the pit bull once why would they not think he would not come back when the dog came back? There were 5 fricking cops there, that is more than enough to restrain the dog. That means there were more than likely 5 tasers and 5 pepper sprays, they were all from the same department so should be carrying the same equipment.

Again you have not addressed the fact that there were 7-8 rounds shot at a close range and the only one that died was the young man, not the dog. Those cops should be: fired for incompetence and reckless discharge of firearm and embarrassed for their inept shooting skills. They have NO business being cops.

I am sure those cops did not see the teenager, but they should have thought about him since they had already interacted with him rather than wildly shooting rounds that did not even kill the intended target. They are cops, they are their to protect the public not kill the innocent.

sisu there is a distinct media bias and reporting on the bullies. In other words you cannot believe all you read!

[Sswor]

Khall, have you ever been attacked by a dog? It’s disturbing, violent, and happens so fast there is very little time to do anything but react in a defensive manner. I can’t find it anywhere in me to blame a police officer for shooting a pit bull that has already attacked and bitten and drawn blood. I can’t really blame their aim either, in close quarters with a dog moving in fast, it would be a difficult target to hit. We have already learned that police WILL shoot a dog they perceive as a threat http://www.snopes.com/federal-judge-rule-police-can-legally-shoot-kill-dogs/ , so as a dog owner, I would prefer to pick my battles on this one and focus my police criticism for the peaceful pets who are shot and killed by PD https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/08/dog-shot-police-suit/16904333/ , rather then second-guessing cops who shoot rampaging pit bulls.

The ricochet was an accident. PD has already made it clear that stray bullets hitting Innocent civilians is just an unfortunate accident http://abc7chicago.com/news/no-charges-for-cop-in-fatal-shooting-of-bettie-jones-quintonio-legrier/1748388/ . PD gets to determine the level of force necessary, and weight the threat to public safety against the threat to an individual; ie take out the pit bull which could kill and/or maim several individuals http://wkrn.com/2017/01/18/pit-bull-attacks-children-walking-to-bus-stop-killing-1/ vs. accidental ricochet that could maim or kill an individual.

[GoodTimes]

@khall

CT the cops knew the teenager was there initially, they had interacted with him when he restrained the pit bull once why would they not think he would not come back when the dog came back? There were 5 fricking cops there, that is more than enough to restrain the dog. That means there were more than likely 5 tasers and 5 pepper sprays, they were all from the same department so should be carrying the same equipment.

Again you have not addressed the fact that there were 7-8 rounds shot at a close range and the only one that died was the young man, not the dog. Those cops should be: fired for incompetence and reckless discharge of firearm and embarrassed for their inept shooting skills. They have NO business being cops.

I am sure those cops did not see the teenager, but they should have thought about him since they had already interacted with him rather than wildly shooting rounds that did not even kill the intended target. They are cops, they are their to protect the public not kill the innocent.

sisu there is a distinct media bias and reporting on the bullies. In other words you cannot believe all you read!

You’re missing the point. This entire scenario could have been avoided if
a) the neighbor had of contained his dog (where the heck was the neighbor anyway?)
b)if the dog wasn’t aggressive

An attacking dog, whether it’s a pit bull or not, is no longer a “family pet”. It’s a dangerous, unpredictable animal. Why should the cops treat it any differently then a rabid raccoon, an aggressive coyote, a charging bear, etc? It already bit one officer, and is quite capable of killing or maiming someone. The dog likely would have been euthanized after biting the cop in the first place, risking the safety of other officers to “round it up” would have been dumb.
It’s very unfortunate the boy lost his life, he was just trying to help. But I’m not going to blame the cops, if anyone is to blame it’s the owner of the dog.

I’m also not sure why you think it would be easier for the police to shoot a moving target at close range? The opposite is true.

[sisu27]

@khall

sisu there is a distinct media bias and reporting on the bullies. In other words you cannot believe all you read!

Fake news!! It’s everywhere!

[khall]

CT I agree with you that the dog should not have been loose %100, that is on the owner. As for the dog being aggressive again there were 5 police officers there that could have stepped in. Did you see the picture of the teenager? He was not very large, yet he was able to pull this “rampaging” dog off the officers and move him to the back of the building. For some reason the dog got away again and went back, it just goes to follow that the teenager who did not want to see this dog shot went back to get him again. Why on earth did these officers not think about this kid? IMO they have fallen to the media bias on these pit bulls. Being able bodied officers I do not see how they could not have contained or controlled the dog without using deadly force. This was not just one officer, this was 5.

SSwor yes my dog and I have been attacked by a roaming dog, I have also been attacked by a stallion that I was handling for breeding (and have the scars to prove it). I have also had to step in with dog fights, a couple with bullies. I have only been bitten once in doing so and it was because the other dog (BTW not the bully) would not give up the fight, kept going after the bully dog and I had to get someone else in to get the other dog off.

Cops with such bad aim as these have no business out their carrying and discharging a weapon. They should be training to shoot and hit moving targets of any distance, do you think the bad guy is going to be just standing there saying shoot me? Oh yeah that’s right they are usually sitting in a car with their 4 yr old in the back or laying on the ground with two cops on top of them when they get shot.

First I totally agree with you, the first blame is on the owner for having a loose dog. But it was the cop’s decision to fire their weapons recklessly and with no regard to where the bullets might fly that lead to the death of this teenager. So yes ultimately the blame lies on the cops and I guess we will see how the investigation pans out as to whether they keep their jobs or not.

[JanM]

On this morning Judge Judy rerun from 2014 I think, they had the perfect illustration of how some owners are clueless about vicious dogs. A woman was walking down the sidewalk, and the two large dogs came out of the (former owner of one) woman who had taken the dogs to the park. The passerby was bitten repeatedly, and the owner (who didn’t see the attack) kept saying the victim insulted the dogs. The owner kept denying the dogs had bitten anyone else, when several animal control and police reports were put into evidence. The one dog had been adopted from the dog walker, the current owner tried to get rid of the dog (to no-kill shelters or rescues) after it had gone down the street and attacked several people at an restaurant patio, and it had attacked another animal too (I’m not too clear on that part).

The owner didn’t care about the victim, who had a lot of punctures, and a lot of deductibles from her health insurance. The plaintiff was a drama queen in court, but I suspect her version of the story was much more accurate than the defendants. People who deny their dog is aggressive after at least three attacks on other people is a clueless idiot, and gives credence to the fact that allowing a dog with a list of repeated bites off leash is just wrong. I wonder how many other attacks there have been that weren’t reported? Owners like that should be held responsible, and her denying the dog bite history just because the animal didn’t maim someone before this is ludicrous. Some people just shouldn’t have animals.

[khall]

Here is an incident where the officer did not shoot the dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YasLrfyg9oE

but did use pepper spray.