Man fatally mauled, dog killed, by pit bulls on dog walk

[CanadianTrotter]

[QUOTE=CaliforniaDreamer;9041821]
Boy I live just outside Ottawa and I work in Ottawa, so travel there daily. CT maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to speculate on other area and their apparent laziness when it comes to leash laws. Not the first time I see you make vast sweeping generalization on things Canadian.[/QUOTE]

I made the Ottawa statement because of people who live in the Ottawa area saying their leash laws are more relaxed.

Curious of where I have made sweeping generalizations on Canadian things.

[CanadianTrotter]

[QUOTE=rubles;9041841]
CT
Off-leash dogs don’t frighten me, hence my dogs aren’t frightened either.
For the most part dogs are much smarter than we realize. I don’t consider myself superior to anyone–not so sure about you though.
I hope that loose dog you reported to the authorities, I think you posted it ran home, and haven’t seen since didn’t loose it’s life/home because of you. From your post you are very proud of yoursel and I find it hard to believe you even own a dog. Sanctimonious, superior attitude indeed.[/QUOTE]

Average off leash dogs don’t frighten me either, dogs known for their aggressive nature that are off leash most certainly give me reason to pause and be careful. Anyone that says they aren’t wary of an aggressive natured dog off leash is either lying or totally ignorant.

My dog was never frightened of any off leash dog, quite the opposite in fact.

You think I posted “it ran home” when I mentioned the two loose dogs incidents in an earlier thread or on this thread? Either way you are 100% wrong and obviously do not read for clarity or content and make things up as you go along.

To put your mind at ease, the shepherd that lives close to me is alive and well and actually being properly contained and controlled now, responsible dog owner=happy neighbourhood. The other dog I reported(large, intact pit bull type) that was being walked randomly through neighbourhoods, I have no idea where it is or where the owner is because I have seen neither since I reported it. It’s a loose dangerous dog off the street so I really don’t care.

I’m not a dog owner through personal choice at this time, not sure why you would find it surprising that if I was a dog owner though. Unless you are just stooping to personal insults through frustration.

[rubles]

Original Poster,
Any updates about the condition of the old man injured by the two dogs?

[CanadianTrotter]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;9041727]
I have explained why loose dogs, who are deemed “friendly” dogs, in neighborhoods are a problem, despite their owners’ ignorance, but I guess I have to do it again. Here it is:

My dog (who is always on a leash when she is not in our fenced in yard) gets very scared when another dog rushes her. She doesn’t care whether some random person deems that dog “aggressive” or “non-aggressive”. If a loose dog runs towards my dog when she is on a leash, she will panic. I have no way of knowing how many times any given loose dog has been loose, and it’s not my responsibility to keep track of that. Every time my dog panics when I take her out on a leashed walk, that is reinforcing for her that going for a walk is an unpleasant experience. That is not fair for her. Anyone who isn’t able to respect that should not have a dog.

I refuse to accept that I can’t take my dog for a walk because some asshole who lives in my neighborhood feels that leash laws don’t apply because he deems his dog “friendly”. The other thing these narcissistic dog owners don’t understand is that there are people in the world who are hugely afraid of dogs and they don’t care how friendly you say your dog is they just don’t want your dog near them. You need to respect these people. Keep your dogs contained unless you are on private property.[/QUOTE]

I feel for you and understand where you’re coming from. I on the other hand was on the opposite end when I had my dog. He was not afraid of other dogs, he was dog aggressive. Although I ensured he was always contained, controlled and/or muzzled 100%, we encountered many that were not. Each time this happened my dog went into full protection mode. Encountering a leashed dog was no problem, he would be on guard but relaxed but an off leash dog created a problem. The worst incident we had was when an off leash medium sized dog came bounding right up to us. My dog was properly leashed and muzzled and ended up physically putting the dog down and standing over it until I commanded him off of it.

Of course the owner was frightened for her dog, she was greatly relieved when she discovered my dog was muzzled and that I actually had full physical and verbal control over him. When she calmed down a bit and then had the audacity to tell me I shouldn’t have a dog like that out in public, I told her the next time I saw her loose dog I would take my dog’s muzzle off. Of course I wouldn’t take my dog’s muzzle off, that would have been illegal and unethical, but after that incident that woman always had a leash on her dog whenever I saw them again.

[PDDT]

Canadian Trotter
Since the stricter leash laws came into effect in Ontario I have only seen one unleashed dog in a public area and one that got out of its house without the owners knowing… I reported both of them and haven’t seen either dog since then.

CT - can you please cite - maybe from elaws the Ontario Leash Laws. To the best of my knowledge, except for the rather vague requirement in the incredibly IMHO flawed Dog Owners Liability Act to be in control of your dog, all laws requiring leashes or other forms of confinement/control are municipal bylaws and hence have some inconsistencies between jurisdictions.

[PDDT]

We need to do much better in passing legislation that actually helps reduce the population of dangerous dogs. The legislation in Ontario and any false sense of security it gives people is, IMHO, not a great example to be quoting from.

The Canadian Federation of Humane Societies has issued a great policy statement on Dangerous Dog legislation. Here is an excerpt:

The issue of banning breeds that are thought to be more prone to aggressive behaviours has become the subject of debate – and legislation – at the municipal and provincial levels. Some municipalities have imposed tough by-laws against dog breeds that they have been deemed to be dangerous, such as pit-bulls. However, there are several reasons why breed-specific bans are problematic:
There is no objective method of establishing lineage of cross bred dogs or dogs which are not registered with a national kennel club. In addition, many municipalities do not have access to qualified persons that could accurately perform breed identification.
Dangerous dogs may exist in every breed and breed cross.
Dangerous temperament and behaviour are products of many factors other than just breed.
This type of ban will result in exclusion of some dangerous dogs, and inclusion of dogs that are not dangerous.
The incidence of dog bites has not been shown to be reduced by restricting the ownership of certain dog breeds.

http://cfhs.ca/athome/breed_bans

Education on responsible dog ownership and laws that focus on dog behaviour rather than dog breed is what will prevent horrid incidents like that in the original post from occurring.

[DrBeckett]

loose=not firmly attached or tightly fixed; set free, release.
lose=be deprived of or cease to have or retain something.

the loose dog does not “loose” its life if someone reports it. It would “lose” its life.

[vacation1]

“Education on responsible dog ownership and laws that focus on dog behaviour rather than dog breed is what will prevent horrid incidents like that in the original post from occurring.”

This is the current official position from membership organizations for people employed in industries which make money from the rehoming, breeding and endless “rehabbing” of pit bulls, and in the treatment and euthanasia of animals attacked by pit bulls. This position is ethically contemptible. It asserts that breed-specific bans don’t work, without mentioning that 99% of the studies which “prove” that were funded by advocacy organizations laser-focused on preserving the “right” of people to own, breed, buy and sell pit bulls. It offers as a solution a) education of dog owners and b) laws that focus on dog behavior. Since the vast majority of owners who clearly need further “education” on how to prevent their furbabies from taking lives are owners of specific breeds yet we’re not supposed to acknowledge breeds, that approach is a setup for a huge waste of time and money. Lecturing owners of Italian Greyhounds and beagles mixes on the virtues of spay/neuter, leashing and adequate fencing is pointless - outside some rural areas of the US, those messages are loud and clear already. As to the flatly, unabashedly BS answer that laws focusing on dog behavior are the way forward, that’s actually vicious. Who in the dog world is more aggressively resistant to the idea of a demonstrably violent dog being “punished” than the pit owners? Every time one of them attacks, mauls, kills or otherwise has a little “maintenance failure”, the owner goes wailing to Pit Bull Nation, which bullies everyone they can find. Look at the pit owners and organizations trying to bully Ontario into releasing 21 fighting-bred, fighting-trained pit bulls that were assessed by the US SPCA (not a hotbed of BSL advocates, a more pitty-friendly group is hard to find) as too violent to be safely rehomed. Breed-blind law enfocement leads to the situation we already have - equal fines and punishment for wildly varying behaviors.

[vacation1]

vineyridge: Dream on. Back then Rottweilers and Akitas were the breeds that were identified as killers of children. Dobermans and chows were just considered likely to savage people.

Back when? 1999? Rots and Akitas have always been considered dangeros because they are dangerous. Same for Dobes and Chows. Show me 20 reports from, say, 1980 of Akitas killing people. In the one year. Choose ANY year. But you have to stay with Akitas. Maybe branch it out to other sleddogs, make it fun. Or switch over to the Rotties, which have a violence problem that make breeds other than the pit bull look minor. Hell, I’ll make it as easy as possible:

Find 10 separate deadly attacks on humans in a single year from 1900-2016, which were all made by a single breed/type ever identified as dangerous, from the Akita to the Doberman to the German Shepherd. If you combine the Chow with the Akita, or went with the German Shepherd in all its various forms (include the Malinois, that’ll help) and mixes, you might come up with 5 fatal attacks on humans in a single year. You won’t find 20. I doubt you’d find 10.

[vacation1]

Valentine Herrera had heart problems and was on dialysis, and had had a near-fatal health situation in November. So I’m sure he’s just fine now that he’s been mauled by pit bulls after witnessing them rip his pet apart.

The pit bull owners are claiming their pets were fruit guardians. Yes, that’s right.

A disabled woman, who declined to be interviewed on camera, lives on the same property as the pit bulls’ owners, who declined to comment. The woman said the dogs were her “security,” a defense against intruders who invaded the yard to steal fruit from its trees

I’m not familiar with LA - do they get a lot of hard-core fruit thieves there? And does anyone else smell a service pit bull claim coming?

http://abc7.com/news/man-critical-pet-pomeranian-killed-in-pit-bull-attack-in-lincoln-heights/1737183/

BTW, when you google “dog killed pit bull old man” and limit it to one week, that’s a lot of totally biased, unfair stories about pit bulls whose owners were simply irresponsible with totally normal pibbles just acting as nature intended:

1. Jon Dunnill, a Toronto man who’s suing the owners of a pit bulls that killed his dog in his apartment - the lil’ rascal got out of it’s owner’s condo and scampered down the hall, burst into his condo and killed his dog at his feet. He’s also suing the ‘rescue’ Dog Tales, from which the owners had received the pit - since the female owner’s reaction to seeing her pibbles’ kill his dog was to blurt out “I have to call the shelter where I got her … they said if anything like this were to happen, I should call them right away.” Dog Tales’ response is to rhapsodize about their former pit as a “sweet, lazy, senior dog.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/02/05/toronto-man-sues-neighbour-animal-group-after-his-dog-was-allegedly-killed-by-pit-bull.html

2. A Houma pit bull attacks a man entering its owner’s home and is still locked onto his arm when police arrive. They have to shoot the pit bull to death because it won’t let go of the man.

http://www.houmatoday.com/news/20170208/man-hospitalized-after-pit-bull-attack

3. Two pit bulls in New Mexico respond to a deranged man tossing a small dog into their yard by attacking and killing the dog within seconds, even as their owners rush to stop them.

http://krqe.com/2017/02/08/albuquerque-man-feeds-neighbors-puppy-to-pit-bulls/

4. Two loose pit bulls come across a woman walking her Chihuahua and immediately kill him, snapping his neck. The pits had repeatedly run free and attacked before, which meant this attack had enough consequences that the pit owner elected to euth her killers.

http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/Hampton-Bays/509127/Two-Pit-Bulls-Euthanized-After-Attacking-Killing-Family-Pet-In-Hampton-Bays

5. A Florida pit bull in a shelter attacks a man who is interested in adopting it.
   http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-lk-lauren-ritchie-20170207-story.html

6. A man kills one of his mother’s 3 pit bulls, angry at her for siding with his girlfriend in an argument.
   http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/bryan-man-accused-of-torturing-two-dogs/article_b68449c7-a14d-575a-9960-3fc8ddb9967d.html

7. A pit bull owner, asked to help stop his pit from attacking a neighbor’s dog, instead stabs the dog to death.
   http://www.wptv.com/news/state/florida-man-charged-with-fatally-stabbing-neighbors-dog-10-times

Net score from the one page of results, not counting Mr. Herrera and Dodger:
4 dead dogs, 3 mauled to death by pit bulls and 1 stabbed by a pit bull owner
6 dead pit bulls, 1 shot by police, 3 gently euthanized, 1 hung
2 people (at least) bitten/attacked

Nothing to see here, folks, just keep moving. Totally normal situation. All dogs bite.

[CanadianTrotter]

[QUOTE=PDDT;9042465]
CT - can you please cite - maybe from elaws the Ontario Leash Laws. To the best of my knowledge, except for the rather vague requirement in the incredibly IMHO flawed Dog Owners Liability Act to be in control of your dog, all laws requiring leashes or other forms of confinement/control are municipal bylaws and hence have some inconsistencies between jurisdictions.[/QUOTE]

The DOLA is flawed, it says…

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90d16#BK8

[B]
Owner to prevent dog from attacking
5.1 The owner of a dog shall exercise reasonable precautions to prevent it from,

(a) biting or attacking a person or domestic animal; or

(b) behaving in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals. 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (15).
[/B]

It doesn’t specifically mention “leashed” but each municipality has its own dog by-laws and I may be wrong but I believe the majority of them require that all dogs be leashed in public except for designated dog parks. Every different municipality I have lived in has had mandatory leash by-laws.

I would assume that there are some municipalities that have more relaxed dog by-laws, but even in those areas anyone can file a complaint against a dog that they see as a menace and it is up to the owner to prove it wasn’t/isn’t.

http://www.responsibledogowners.ca/dog_and_law.html

[B]
Bylaw officers, like police, will err on the side of caution and write up a ticket, and then the onus is on the dog owner to prove that the charge is false. (DOLA 4.(1.3))

Under DOLA, (s. 15) if it is believed that a dog owner is, or has at any time, been in violation of the Act, police or bylaw officers may seize any dog in public regardless of the breed of dog.[/B]

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=vacation1;9043037]
vineyridge: Dream on. Back then Rottweilers and Akitas were the breeds that were identified as killers of children. Dobermans and chows were just considered likely to savage people.

Back when? 1999? Rots and Akitas have always been considered dangeros because they are dangerous. Same for Dobes and Chows. Show me 20 reports from, say, 1980 of Akitas killing people. In the one year. Choose ANY year. But you have to stay with Akitas. Maybe branch it out to other sleddogs, make it fun. Or switch over to the Rotties, which have a violence problem that make breeds other than the pit bull look minor. Hell, I’ll make it as easy as possible:

Find 10 separate deadly attacks on humans in a single year from 1900-2016, which were all made by a single breed/type ever identified as dangerous, from the Akita to the Doberman to the German Shepherd. If you combine the Chow with the Akita, or went with the German Shepherd in all its various forms (include the Malinois, that’ll help) and mixes, you might come up with 5 fatal attacks on humans in a single year. You won’t find 20. I doubt you’d find 10.[/QUOTE]
It might help if you knew the actual origin of the dogs you’re citing… And… it would help if what you were citing was actually backed by evidence or proof, but it’s not.

The Akita is not a sled dog. Throughout its breeding history and origin, it was never bred specifically to be a sled dog. The Akita was bred to be large game dog, and before that, a fighting dog.

(Belgian) Malinois is not a form of a GSD. It’s an entirely different breed that was developed in an entirely different country.

A dog is only as good as the hand that raises it. I have met nothing but wonderfully sweet rotties, and I don’t believe they are any more inherently dangerous than other dogs raised in bad situations. A dog raised by bad people will be a bad dog; I do not think that is the fault of the dog.

[rugbygirl]

1. Jon Dunnill, a Toronto man who’s suing the owners of a pit bulls that killed his dog in his apartment - the lil’ rascal got out of it’s owner’s condo and scampered down the hall, burst into his condo and killed his dog at his feet. He’s also suing the ‘rescue’ Dog Tales, from which the owners had received the pit - since the female owner’s reaction to seeing her pibbles’ kill his dog was to blurt out “I have to call the shelter where I got her … they said if anything like this were to happen, I should call them right away.” Dog Tales’ response is to rhapsodize about their former pit as a “sweet, lazy, senior dog.”

This is sick. The rescue conditioned her to call them. Again. Because they are the only possible authority on dog behaviour and need to immediately run damage control on why they adopted out a dog who was then involved in a major incident.

They deserve to be sued. And in Canada, that actually means something.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I realize it’s a bit ‘hand wavey’ but the AKC groups the Belgian Malinois, Belgian Sheepdog, Belgian Tervuren and the German Shepherd all in the Herding group.

Yes, many breeds in the herding group have been bred for more than one purpose but still shows the origins of these 4 breeds that are often used for security, protection and LE use were also used for herding.

[cloudyandcallie]

Yeah, but if you go to the shows, and I’ve gone for decades, you won’t see any GSDs or even Collies herding cattle or ducks. Or see any poodles in field trials for retrievers. Some breeds have been repurposed for other jobs from the jobs they were originally bred for. I have police friends who train the GSDs for catching defendants and for sniffing out drugs and sniffing out bombs. When Wayne Williams was on trial in Atlanta, the bomb dogs came by each morning and checked each room in the courthouse, including our offices.

Why do I think that Akitas were used as guard dogs by the Japanese? One of my Akita - owning neighbors in Atlanta told me that.

I do think that all dogs being walked should be on leash as there are some people who are afraid of any dog of any size. But I don’t think a toy breed yapping at a dog bred for fighting (or a child running or playing or whatever as in Atlanta) should be fair game for a dog bred for fighting who has the ability/capacity to kill.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I am more than aware that many of the “herding” breeds have lost their herding instinct (or rather, most members of the breed have). I had a herding breed for over 30 years. Could most of them herd? No. Could a few of them, yes? Did you see them often at herding competitions, no. My breeder was a drover more than a fetcher and most herding competitions are oriented toward the fetch style of herding.

LE for the most part uses the Malinois (not all LE do however). I’ve seen beagles used for scent discrimination work. Dog breeds often don’t fit into neat tidy categories. The individual dog will tell you their strengths and weaknesses, one just needs to learn to read and respect them.

IMO, there is no excuse for a loose dog out in public (this does not, to me, include dog parks). If one wants to go to a party in a contained area with tens of other loose dogs, be my guest and have a great time.

The great outdoors is too full of unknowns to make it realistic to have a dog running around loose.

[Gestalt]

I have always loved the Akita breed. They are such majestic looking dogs. One in particular still has a place in my heart. I wanted to adopt him, but I knew I couldn’t handle such a powerful dog. He lived out his life at that shelter because they would not adopt him to just anyone, they knew he needed that perfect home.

I’m in favor of dog owners being held responsible for their pets actions, ie if your dog kills somebody you are tried for murder, if your dog mains someone you are tried for assault.

[rubles]

I was raised around dogs–German Shepherds aka Alsations. Great dogs every one. Carl used to take a message to the local store and return with the purchase in his mouth–all on his own, by himself. When I was big enough I used to tag along, safe by his side.
In spite of having dogs all my life there is no room in that life for a dog, whatever size, to need a muzzle in public. None whatsoever because that dog is dangerous unless the muzzle is there for show. It’s difficult to interpret just what message the owner is sending though.
Once while walking my “herding breed” dog near the Nassagaweya Gorge, off leash, two teenagers behind me drew my attention causing me to turn. One had a knife in his hand and cliff face was behind me. No where to go. Off leash herding dog at my side suddenly reared up on her back legs letting out a bellow I’d never heard before. Menacing and frightening. Off they went in a hurry. This dog wasn’t trained, this was bred into her character. And guess what. I bred her.

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;9043661]

The great outdoors is too full of unknowns to make it realistic to have a dog running around loose.[/QUOTE]

Somehow, I find this statement horribly offensive. Dogs must be kept in cages just like tigers. They are unworthy of even the slightest moment of freedom. It’s thinking like this that makes me despise the human race, which thinks that the whole natural world should revolve around them and kowtow to them because humans have so much more value than the state of nature.

Dogs, cats, people, everything everywhere, were born to freedom of movement; human beings don’t have the implicit moral right to take that way, even if each individual human has to beware of his/her own safety.

[vineyridge]

I do have one question: how did a dog “burst through” the closed door of someone else’s apartment?. I have no experience at all with dogs who can open latched doors or break them down.