Managing Spay Incontinence - Proin and Alternatives?

[EventingMaff]

Hi All,

My 1.5 year old rescue has begun exhibiting spay incontinence. It’s very mild – a few drops here and there, larger puddles after particularly deep sleeps (after intensive exercise days). She only leaks while sleeping, no dripping when awake. It’s not EVERY sleep she drips/leaks, but I’d say about 1 in 3 days she has at least one sleep-accident.

I feel for the poor girl as she’s constantly cleaning herself and seems to be nervous meeting/being around strange dogs since it started (especially intact male dogs).

I left a message with the vet and he returned my call with a voicemail recommended putting her on Propalin (Proin equivalent here in Europe). Here are the concerns I want to address with him:

1. She’s only 1.5, I don’t want her on a synthetic drug for her entire life if at all avoidable, especially given how mild her incontinence is.
2. She’s a quite nervous/anxious dog and a side effect with Proin is more nervousness
3. Cost – I read online that it can cost nearly €1000 a year to treat (she’s only 50 lbs) with Proin. We can afford it, but I don’t WANT to pay that much, especially for a drug I don’t really want her on.

Now I have heard that some dogs can get away on much lower dosages of Proin then is listed on the bottle. But I still don’t love the idea of her being on a drug for life.

Here are some “homeopathic” solutions I’m considering trying:

• Flaxseed
• Cornsilk
• Parsley
• Vetriscience Bladder Strength
• Homeopet Leaks No More

Here are my questions:

• Does anyone have success with lower dosages or intermittent use of Proin in managing incontinence?
• Does anyone have any success with “all natural” remedies?
• Has anyone else observed dog-shyness with incontinence? She’s usually GREAT with dogs and nervous of people and now she seems really shy and nervous of other dogs

[whitney159]

I had a female GSD that went on Proin when she was 9, I was super worried as she was also on rimadyl. Never had a problem in the 4 years she took them together. Her incontinence was mild and she would lick and clean and worry all the time and the Proin worked great and she was a much happier dog when the leakage stopped.
I don’t remember it being very expensive (the Rimadyl was definitely the wallet emptier). I don’t remember her dosage, but remember that we were at the low end and had the option of increasing the dose if needed. My ex-boyfriend’s Doberman had the same incontinence (and hers got bad before he took her in to the vet about it), same story, she was on the lower end of recommended dosage and she did great. I read up on the alternative stuff out there, but was convinced by my vet to just calm the hell down and give her the Proin because it worked. (I know this guy and went to college with him, so yes, this is pretty much how he put it).

[Preposterous_Ponies]

The Proin worked about as well as the Leaks No More for me, neither worked great. They helped a bit, but did not stop the problem by a long shot.

My Springer dribbles and puddles in her sleep, though the puddling is usually only once every two weeks or so, but sometimes can be three days in a row. No real rhyme or reason to it - she does it mroe often when we have lots of company over, but not always.

I’m surprised your vet said Proin after only a phone call. I would do x-rays to make sure the back and hips are not out of whack, as well as a urinalysis. It’s likely 99% spay incontinence but I personally prefer to rule out the other options before going that route.

I also tried some bladder strengthen supplement - can’t remember the name. A) She would not eat them, and it was a fair number of pills and B) did absolutely nothing.

What has worked best for us is taking her out to pee every two or so hours, but that is not always realistic.

[jonquil]

We started with a half dose of proin and it worked well for three years. Now we’ve gone up to a full dose as it seemed she was leaking in her sleep again. We don’t know how old she is-she’s a rescue. We haven’t noticed any side effects like nervousness. It’s a god -send.

[Pancakes]

Can you get Incurin where you are? It’s another incontinence medication with much fewer side effects than Proin.

http://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/products/96-59930-4/productdetails_130_163463.aspx

[horsenut_8700]

Have you done a urinalysis? I would check one before starting any meds. My older female (who was spayed 3 years ago at age 6) has some incontinence, but hers mostly occurs when she is sleeping in positions that create more pressure on her abdomen (ie curled up in the recliner vs sprawled across my bed). I used Incurin with great results and was actually able to wean her off it completely after about 6 months. We’ve had no issues since.

[EventingMaff]

Thanks everyone! I’ll look into Incurin and talk to the vet in a bit more detail (hoping to stop into his office next week when I have a free moment).

Ordered some herbal stuff since I have some US visitors coming this weekend so they could bring it over for me (cost $15 on US amazon and €100 on German, French, and UK Amazon sites. UGH). So I can try that on her next week to see if it works.

Keep the advice coming!

[DoubleClick]

Following. I have an 11 year old who’s leaking in her sleep on occasion; we’re going to the vet on Monday and will discuss. I read that there can be adverse side effects with Proin; did any of you notice any?

[EventingMaff]

DoubleClick – adverse side effects is exactly what has me worried as well. Based on google searches it sounds like some users noticed increase anxiety within their dogs as well as blood-pressure problems. I keep seeing/hearing (on other forums and dog owners/experts I chat with) that you really won’t know how your dog will react until you try it.

The vast majority seem to exhibit no side effects. If my girl were older I’d probably be less hesitant to put her on it, but it just seems like a lot to ask to put a 1.5 year old on a lifetime drug for a few drops of urine here and there

[SlabSided]

If it’s only minor or occasional, you might try soy milk. It has estrogen properties. My little dog will randomly leave wet spots and I’ll squirt some soy milk in her food daily for awhile and the wetting will stop. But, like I said, it seems to be rather random so it may or may not be the soy. YMMV

[Preposterous_Ponies]

[QUOTE=EventingMaff;8755857]
DoubleClick – adverse side effects is exactly what has me worried as well. Based on google searches it sounds like some users noticed increase anxiety within their dogs as well as blood-pressure problems. I keep seeing/hearing (on other forums and dog owners/experts I chat with) that you really won’t know how your dog will react until you try it.

The vast majority seem to exhibit no side effects. If my girl were older I’d probably be less hesitant to put her on it, but it just seems like a lot to ask to put a 1.5 year old on a lifetime drug for a few drops of urine here and there :([/QUOTE]

That was my issue as well. Maizy is only 2 and has this since about a year. The Proin, as I said in my earlier post, helped a bit but didn’t fix it and it did make her a bit restless. Not bad, just… on edge.

If only we could teach them to do doggy kegels.

[pony_baloney]

Try acupuncture!! My late dog developed spay incontinence when she was older and had other issues, so I tried acupuncture. Her kidney meridian needed work, and although I wasn’t there for the incontinence, it stopped and never happened again.

I had also tried Leaks No More, which helped a bit before the acupuncture took care of it.

[csaper58]

My Australian Shepherd mix developed spay incontinence almost immediately after being spayed at 6 months. She started Proin at that time and although we had to play with the dose, such as more in the summer when she would drink more water. She lived to be 12 yrs.

For her the Proin alleviated much of her nervous behavior because it eliminated the leaking = constant licking = a UTI = discomfort/Pain. That was a vicious cycle we were happy to break.

Male dogs did pay more attention to her, we countered this with dogie perfume.

Our vet said sometimes spay incontinence is caused by hormones, sometimes it is caused by nerve damage. Therefor Proin treatment is more effective for some dogs.

[Pookah]

My last dog had sleep incontinence for most of her life; she also had extreme anxiety issues and was on Prozac and Xanax for most of her life. My vet was adamant that she did not want to try Proin with her, because it can increase anxiety, and more concerning, there have been reports from owners that it “permanently” increased anxiety in their dogs, i.e. the dog remained at a heightened level of anxiety even after stopping the Proin. She felt like with my dog it was not worth the risk because of her existing anxiety levels. We managed her pretty successfully with chiropractic (I don’t think this would work with all dogs, it worked brilliantly for her but we think she had some type of nerve impingement, so it may not be effective for other dogs), Leaks No More (no idea why, and it cost a fortune for a Great Dane, but I did see a noticeable difference on it), and Meloxicam (again, probably specific to nerve impingement and inflammation in her case). I did not see results with the Vetriscience product, but I have heard great reviews on it from others, so I think it’s worth a try.

It’s interesting, I had not heard before that incontinence can lead to increased UTIs, although it does make logical sense. This dog also seemed to be prone to UTIs earlier in her life, but she also squatted very close to the ground, and it was usually attributed to that. I never noticed any difference with her in terms of shyness with meeting other dogs, but that wouldn’t totally shock me, it definitely can make a housebroken dog feel like they’re doing something right.

[csaper58]

With my dog the UTIs came from the irritation from the urine + licking would introduce bacteria into the urinary tract.

Dogs don’t like to relieve themselves where they sleep/live and have a desire to get away from the smell of their own urine/feces. Having the odor of urine constantly hanging over them can cause mental stress for some dogs. Add to that a chronic UTI and you can get a pretty twitchy dog.

Proin can have a side effect of stimulating the adrenal glands, which can also cause nervousness. Not sure in what % of dogs that occurs.

[bits619]

My ex boyfriend’s golden retriever x was on proin for spay incontinence for about two years. We tapered down her dosage and last I remember we were only giving it on exciting days (new dog park or outing, lots of exercise). It’s been a year and half since I’ve really seen her so I’m not sure what her dosage schedule is like now.

My parents’ boxer poodle mix was on proin as well, for the same reason. I think she was on it for about a year post spay also, and eventually didn’t need it any more.

The Golden has some nervous tendencies (she had to be caught in a humane trap when we got her, and was very fearful at first), but I didn’t notice an increase due to the meds. And the boxer poodle is unflappable… I don’t think I’ve seen her bothered or startled once in her life, so no effect w the meds there either.

[LadyBug]

My 50lb dog is managed on 25mg of Proin on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. She is a rescue and was spayed early with symptoms similar to what you’re describing. I think I’ve had her on it since she was about a year and a half and she’s 6 now. I started with the vet’s recommendation and was advised to reduce it to find the lowest effective dose. Mon/Wed/Fri is easy to remember.

Both of my parent’s female dogs were on Proin for years with no detrimental side effects. My dog is timid and can be nervous, but I honestly don’t remember it getting worse after the Proin.

[cloudyandcallie]

My old aussie became incontinent in her mid teens and was on Proin. It worked great with no side effects.

[Rhyadawn]

My old aussie bitch became incontinent at 10 years old. I had her on stilbestrol cycling for a year, but it wasn’t working anymore. My vet and I decided that proin wasn’t a good option for her. She was already heat intolerant, and was getting uncomfortable. I kept her going for a few more months, but made the choice to let her go when she couldn’t sleep comfortably anymore. Hardest decision I’ve ever made

[SpiritInTheSkye]

My female border collie started with the occasional incontinence episode at 8 or 9. It made her extremely anxious and she’d lick and lick. Started her on 1/2 does of Proin and she was perfect for another 5 years or so. We did have to increase the dosage to a full dose when she was 14. Eventually we had to use a combination of DES and Proin in the last 2 years of her life. Both meds were inexpensive.